ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 71

[I'm Nobody]

In Idaho prisons students/inmates apply for financial aid and scholarships same as any student. I don't know what state prison you are referring to but I have never heard of any prison paying for inmate's college degrees, just GED's. Inmates have to get their money from Financial Aid and Scholarships or pay themselves.

PHD's would be difficult to get behind bars because you need to publish and you can't get out in the community for hands on research or even have internet access to social media and other sites you would need.

BK would be in maximum security where the only education available is GED. Inmates need to be in a lower security classification to even get any college opportunities.

I don't see anything in Idaho prisons beyond a bachelor's degree.

2 & 4 Year Colleges

College Options – in IDOC Facilities

There are opportunities for you to take some college courses while you are a resident of an IDOC facility. Independent Study in Idaho (ISI) was created by the State Board of Education to deliver college-level education courses remotely and the coursework (through the University of Idaho) can be accessed at any IDOC facility.

Financial aid and scholarships help many students pay for college and are available through a variety of sources.

Hope you are right. Illinois. I was young but for years my family fought trying not to pay the portion of taxes that went to that program. We fought the IRS and the IRS won. Thank you. Somehow I feel better knowing we don't pay for advanced degrees. MOO

 

[Nova]

...

ID is a DP state. Mass murder (the killing of 4 or more) is a capital offense and the state must charge accordingly. A capital case is one that is subject to the punishment of death and the state must make that option available to the jurors and even ask that they render such a punishment....

(Edited for focus--do check out TeaTime's full post; it is very informative. Emphasis added.)

I'm sorry to pick on one sentence in a post so full of excellent explanation. And, actually, I'm not "picking on" the part bolded above, but asking a question.

Are you saying there is no prosecutorial discretion in employing the D.P.? Is that an Idaho thing?

Without surveying all US jurisdictions, it seems there is something called "prosecutorial discretion" that comes into play, at least in theory. The old LAW & ORDER series (the good version) did several episodes that explored the intersection of justice and politics in charging decisions in NY State after the d.p. was restored there.

Does Idaho have no equivalent?

Don't get me wrong: although I am personally opposed to all executions, if this case isn't a capital crime, what is? And I can well see the DA concluding that if he doesn't ask for death in the mass murder of 4 sleeping youths, he will only invite appeals in future d.p. cases on the ground that if he didn't charge the d.p. in BK's case, he is abusing his discretion to charge it in other cases.

 

[SMK777]

 

[Nova]

Where I studied and taught, matriculation and TAship were two, different things. Now being expelled would end one's job as a TA, obviously, but losing your TAship would not necessarily cause expulsion (depending on the severity of the offense that caused the termination).

I do think it's quite possible that, as an out-of-state student, BK would have found tuition prohibitively expensive without a TAship. Again, I do not have inside knowledge of WSU, but I have been both a TA and a prof at another uni in the same athletic conference.

(Emphasis added.) Sorry to quote my own post, but I can't edit it now and 10ofRods came up with additional info on the Criminology program at WSU.

S/he wrote above that the program is independently funded and tuition is paid for all Ph.D. students.

So tuition wouldn't have been an issue for BK, even without a TAship. If the system is otherwise like the one I knew in CA, BK also lost living expenses when he was "fired". Who knows if he could have afforded to continue, even if he had not been arrested and charged with murder?

I realize BK left behind his computer equipment, which seems to indicate he thought he would be returning. But he wasn't terminated until Dec. 19, a few days after he got back to PA. Given his arrogance, perhaps he couldn't bring himself to believe such a drastic step would be taken.

 

[Cool Cats]

Hope you are right. Illinois. I was young but for years my family fought trying not to pay the portion of taxes that went to that program. We fought the IRS and the IRS won. Thank you. Somehow I feel better knowing we don't pay for advanced degrees. MOO

Our taxes pay to run State Prisons in general which goes into everything from admin costs, salaries, food, electric, CO basic uniforms, inmate basic prison garb, bedding, even toothbrushes and TP.

But college degrees? No.

Sometimes free college classes are given but to get the college class credit applied to an actual college degree, the inmates must pay for it.

 

[Justice101]

In considering the reported timeline of how BK's TA firing came about:

Sept 23 - "altercation" with professor
Oct 3 - meeting with professor to discuss "professional behavior"
Oct 21 - professor emails BK that he has failed expectations discussed at Oct 3 meeting
Nov 12 - meeting to discuss an improvement plan
Dec 7 - meeting to discuss how improvement plan is going
Dec 9 - second "altercation" with professor
Dec 19 - terminated

It's interesting to look at the timeline, knowing the murders took place the night of (technically the morning after) the Nov 12 meeting where an improvement plan was introduced. It's also interesting to think about what's been reported about how BK completely changed the way he graded papers right after the murders. Until we learned of the firing timeline it was somewhat implied via media that the change in BK's grading style was related to the crime (perhaps even that murdering relieved his anger, at least temporarily?). But it appears the change in grading style is almost certainly more to do with the improvement plan than anything crime related.

But still, I'm left to ponder that Nov 12 meeting, literally right before the murders. My pure speculation, but was BK reaping some type of psychological benefit or "high" from the harsh grading, an abuse he learned on Nov 12 that he would no longer be able to indulge in? How would he get his fix now? Were the female student complaints and subsequent improvement plan that they triggered further evidence that BK didn't have ultimate control over what females thought of him? Was there a way to indulge in an abuse that could never be overturned? Does any of this start to unblur the image of motive?

All just MOO.

November 12th was a Saturday. Highly unlikely a professor would have a meeting with a TA on a weekend.

 

[Zella]

It's interesting to look at the timeline, knowing the murders took place the night of (technically the morning after) the Nov 12 meeting where an improvement plan was introduced. It's also interesting to think about what's been reported about how BK completely changed the way he graded papers right after the murders. Until we learned of the firing timeline it was somewhat implied via media that the change in BK's grading style was related to the crime (perhaps even that murdering relieved his anger, at least temporarily?). But it appears the change in grading style is almost certainly more to do with the improvement plan than anything crime related.

That is very interesting, and what is also interesting to me is how passive-aggressive his response was. First-semester TAing and grading is a learning curve for everyone, especially if they have no previous teaching experience. I went into it with a couple of years of tutoring experience, which helped immensely but was still no substitute for teaching experience.

If he had a vested interest in learning how to be a TA, his response would have been to change approach but would not have been to do automatic As and to cease writing comments on assignments, as students have said he did. He's basically showing the department that he doesn't care about being a TA. He's not the first graduate student to not give a flip about it, but he was a fool if he thought nobody would notice and it didn't have the potential to affect his position regarding how his degree was being funded.

I was always told that my department kept an eye out for TAs who had no grade distribution range. So, TAs who had abnormal amounts of Ds and Fs were flagged for attention, as were those who had abnormal amounts of As. He basically flipped from one problematic mode of grading to another.

MOO

 

[Nova]

Yet he did not end his life and used a knife instead of a bomb or a gun. And we still don't know his motive other than a desire to kill people.

He scoped out the victim's home and entered in the middle of the night which is more in line with a serial killer.

I don't think he fits neatly under either category.

If he had not been caught and committed another similar crime, we could call him a "mass-serial killer."

You may well be right, but at the moment I am thinking BK fits the serial killer mode--if the usually reliable sources are reliable this time--he just had bad luck on his first attempt.

All of this is MOO, but I think his target was MM and he was surprised to get "two-for-one" when KG was discovered sleeping next to MM (or heard a commotion and ran to MM's room, a possibility I haven't ruled out). So he was "forced" to double his workload, so to speak.

Then he encountered Eric and Xana on his way out, thus turning a relatively simple murder of one girl (MM) whose looks excited him into a wholesale slaughter of four people.

(I lean toward MM being the target because there is something exotic about her appearance and because KG had basically moved out at the beginning of the semester, about the time BK was arriving in Pullman. How would BK know KG was visiting that weekend?)

 

[Boxer]

You may well be right, but at the moment I am thinking BK fits the serial killer mode--if the usually reliable sources are reliable this time--he just had bad luck on his first attempt.

All of this is MOO, but I think his target was MM and he was surprised to get "two-for-one" when KG was discovered sleeping next to MM (or heard a commotion and ran to MM's room, a possibility I haven't ruled out). So he was "forced" to double his workload, so to speak.

Then he encountered Eric and Xana on his way out, thus turning a relatively simple murder of one girl (MM) whose looks excited him into a wholesale slaughter of four people.

(I lean toward MM being the target because there is something exotic about her appearance and because KG had basically moved out at the beginning of the semester, about the time BK was arriving in Pullman. How would BK know KG was visiting that weekend?)

Totally agree. His boxing skills just allowed him to first kill his targeted victim, and she had a friend with her so that was a second but unplanned murder and then he ambushed to people obstructing his escape by boxing with his speed skills on his way out with a knife.
Maybe Ethan was taller and he got a different punch than the girls.

 

[NyxNY]

Are you thinking what I'm thinking? Because, this thought has crossed my mind many times.

As an example: while Idaho will not allow a plea of insanity, it's well known that the process of Justice can be softened up (especially with plea bargains and sentencing) by obvious evidence of mental incompetency on the part of the defendant.

Didn't we hear that Bryan said he wanted to go back and "exonerate" himself? Well, then. Ought he not have given the exonerating evidence to his attorney? She is probably advising him to take a plea bargain. I think it's possible he won't do it just in order to be defiant (against her in particular, and authority in general).

MOO.

I think I'm thinking what you're thinking. Ted Bundy trial perhaps?

 

[CGray123]

(Edited for focus--do check out TeaTime's full post; it is very informative. Emphasis added.)

I'm sorry to pick on one sentence in a post so full of excellent explanation. And, actually, I'm not "picking on" the part bolded above, but asking a question.

Are you saying there is no prosecutorial discretion in employing the D.P.? Is that an Idaho thing?

RSBM. BBM.

I am having trouble finding where mass murder removes the discretion of the prosecutor to decline to seek the death penalty. Multiple murder is among the aggravating factors that make an offense eligible for the death penalty, but here's the statute that sets forth the procedure (BBM):

"ID Code § 18-4004 (2022)

PUNISHMENT FOR MURDER. Subject to the provisions of sections 19-2515 and 19-2515A, Idaho Code, every person guilty of murder of the first degree shall be punished by death or by imprisonment for life, provided that a sentence of death shall not be imposed unless the prosecuting attorney filed written notice of intent to seek the death penalty as required under the provisions of section 18-4004A, Idaho Code, and provided further that whenever the death penalty is not imposed the court shall impose a sentence. If a jury, or the court if a jury is waived, finds a statutory aggravating circumstance beyond a reasonable doubt but finds that the imposition of the death penalty would be unjust, the court shall impose a fixed life sentence. If a jury, or the court if a jury is waived, does not find a statutory aggravating circumstance beyond a reasonable doubt or if the death penalty is not sought, the court shall impose a life sentence with a minimum period of confinement of not less than ten (10) years during which period of confinement the offender shall not be eligible for parole or discharge or credit or reduction of sentence for good conduct, except for meritorious service. Every person guilty of murder of the second degree is punishable by imprisonment not less than ten (10) years and the imprisonment may extend to life."

 

[Nova]

...
Did he want to work for the FBI? (not many beat cops have PhD's)
Did he want to research the nature of murderers or crime scene investigation?
Did he want to write novels or Hollywood screenplays?....

That knock you hear at your front door is the FBI with a retaliatory search warrant! LOL.

Seriously, most FBI agents have been graduated from law schools. If that's what BK wanted, he should have gone to law school. Whether he had the courses and grades to get in, I don't know. Probably not to a top tier law school, but he didn't exactly go to a "top tier" criminology program.

As for getting a Ph.D. to enable creative work, there are programs with "creative Ph.D.s". Two of my friend have Ph.D.s in Poetry and their dissertations were books of their own poems, not deconstructions of Emily Dickinson.

But a "critical" Ph.D.--i.e., one requiring a scholarly dissertation--demands years of work (including usually at least one foreign language) that aren't really necessary to write a screenplay or crime novel. It would be an odd reason to undertake a Ph.D. IMHO.

 

[SMK777]

Idaho murders: Bryan Kohberger prosecutor files new documents in secretive proceedings

The Idaho prosecutor handling the murder case against student stabbings suspect Bryan Kohberger filed new documents Wednesday in a Latah County court.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Dotta]

That knock you hear at your front door is the FBI with a retaliatory search warrant! LOL.

Seriously, most FBI agents have been graduated from law schools. If that's what BK wanted, he should have gone to law school. Whether he had the courses and grades to get in, I don't know. Probably not to a top tier law school, but he didn't exactly go to a "top tier" criminology program.

As for getting a Ph.D. to enable creative work, there are programs with "creative Ph.D.s". Two of my friend have Ph.D.s in Poetry and their dissertations were books of their own poems, not deconstructions of Emily Dickinson.

But a "critical" Ph.D.--i.e., one requiring a scholarly dissertation--demands years of work (including usually at least one foreign language) that aren't really necessary to write a screenplay or crime novel. It would be an odd reason to undertake a Ph.D. IMHO.

Maybe he wanted to be an "eternal student"?
Far from home and watchful parents, surrounded by college kids whom he could boss around as TA.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

In Idaho, as in other States, the prosecution decides whether or not to charge the defendant with the death penalty. The prosecutor does not have to do this.

Bk's prosecutor will decide. We still do not know what his decision will be.

One moment, please...

Will Bryan Kohberger Face Death Penalty if Convicted of Idaho Murders? Legal Expert Weighs In

Bryan Kohberger is accused of murdering Madison Mogen, 21, Kaylee Goncalves, 21, Xana Kernodle, 20, and Ethan Chapin, 20

people.com

How Does Someone Get Sentenced To The Death Penalty In Idaho?

When a case goes to trial in Idaho, in certain cases the prosecution has the option to seek the death penalty. Whether or not the defendant is sentenced to the death penalty will depend on the jury.

In order for the death penalty to be given, the jury must come to a unanimous decision, which means that every member of the jury must agree that the defendant should receive the death sentence.

If there is a hung jury (in which the jury are unable to make a verdict) during the penalty phase of the trial, then a life sentence will be issued and there will be no retrial – even if just one member of the jury opposed the death sentence.

Prosecutors have not yet announced if they will pursue the death penalty if Kohberger's case heads to trial.

 

[Nova]

Hmm
I once read about a "death row" criminal Thomas Bart Whitaker who was pardoned in Texas.
He finished college, became Master of Arts and was continuing with PhD while in solitary.
He even created a blog "Minutes before 6" (time when death penalty is performed).

But who paid for all this?
I have no idea.

Well, we know his living expenses were paid for by taxpayers, so the only issue is how he paid for tuition. If he didn't have independent means from a friend or family member, he probably got scholarships.

 

[Zella]

As for getting a Ph.D. to enable creative work, there are programs with "creative Ph.D.s". Two of my friend have Ph.D.s in Poetry and their dissertations were books of their own poems, not deconstructions of Emily Dickinson.

Yes there are also terminal MFA programs in creative writing that would be a far more appropriate venue for that career choice than getting a PhD in criminology. Depending on the program, you can specialize in anything from writing fiction to nonfiction to poetry to screenwriting.

 

[Nova]

Maybe he wanted to be an "eternal student"?
Far from home and watchful parents, surrounded by college kids whom he could boss around as TA.

JMO

There is no shame in being an "eternal student". I am proud to be one myself. (But not because I wanted to mistreat students. I loved teaching and got enormous satisfaction when my students did well.)

 

[Tintina]

Možná máte pravdu, ale v tuto chvíli si myslím, že BK vyhovuje režimu sériového vraha - pokud jsou tentokrát obvykle spolehlivé zdroje spolehlivé - měl na první pokus smůlu.

Tohle všechno je MOO, ale myslím, že jeho cílem byl MM a překvapilo ho, že dostal "dva za jednoho", když KG objevili spící vedle MM (nebo slyšel rozruch a utíkal do MM pokoje, možnost, kterou nemám t vyloučeno). Byl tedy „donucen“ pracovní zátěž takříkajíc zdvojnásobit.

Pak se na cestě ven setkal s Ericem a Xanou, čímž se z relativně jednoduché vraždy jedné dívky (MM), jejíž vzhled ho vzrušoval, stal hromadný masakr čtyř lidí.

(Přikláním se k tomu, že cílem je MM, protože na jejím vzhledu je něco exotického a protože KG se v podstatě odstěhovala na začátku semestru, přibližně v době, kdy BK přijížděl do Pullmanu. Jak by BK věděl, že KG je ten víkend na návštěvě?)

I think the same thing too. I just find me it strange what time he was already waiting at the house. How could he know that his intended victim would already be home? The thought that he might already be hiding somewhere in that house terrifies me

 

[Nova]

Yes there are also terminal MFA programs in creative writing that would be a far more appropriate venue for that career choice than getting a PhD in criminology. Depending on the program, you can specialize in anything from writing fiction to nonfiction to poetry to screenwriting.

Yes, I have exactly such a degree, an MFA in Playwriting from UCLA. It was considered an "exception" when they later admitted me to their Ph.D. program, which is entirely critical rather than creative.