GUILTY ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #98

[PinkParis2052]

How much do you want to bet that glove found outside the house is going to be a winter glove, and the defense is misrepresenting it?

Do you think that it was the same glove that youtuber found when he drove around Moscow, Idaho? because I don't think it's the same glove. IMO.

 

[Nila Aella]

MOO

I just don't understand why the lab protocols and evidence collection procedures have still not been disclosed. Why won't the prosecution show their work do you think?

!!

7/2025
footnote2, Page 4

The lab protocols and evidence collection procedures have not been disclosed

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR01-24-31665/2025/010725-Reply-States-Objection-DefendantsMtC-ICR16b7-Material-Sanctions.pdf

 

[gremlin444]

We DO NOT yet know if the murder weapon fits in that sheath so it is premature to decide that it does at this time. All we know is that at least one edged weapon was used and that the wounds of MM and KG were described differently from those of EC and XK. Without the scientific measurements of the wounds, there is no way of knowing much of anything about the means of murder for all 4 victims at this point.

The DNA on the sheath is problematic because it is such a miniscule sample of touch DNA of 20 skin cells or less which is not considered scientifically valid proof that the person whose DNA it is ever actually touched the object or was ever in the same room with it. With only 20 or less skin cells it is far more likely that this was a secondary transfer of DNA to the sheath by someone else. Secondary DNA transfers are typically very small numbers of skin cells, whereas a full on primary transfer should have deposited hundreds of skin cells - even thousands if the person is a good shedder. A secondary DNA transfer could have come from literally any public place. JMO.

Could you remind me of where the "20 skin cells or less" number came from?

As far as I can tell, the only place that info is coming from is Howard Blum. In which case, by your own standards above, it's no more a known fact than the assumption that the murder weapon fits in the sheath that was found beneath two murdered victims who died from wounds caused by a bladed instrument.

 

[girlhasnoname]

!!

7/2025
footnote2, Page 4

The lab protocols and evidence collection procedures have not been disclosed

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR01-24-31665/2025/010725-Reply-States-Objection-DefendantsMtC-ICR16b7-Material-Sanctions.pdf

For clarity, this was filed 1/7/2025. <you've got two !!'s at the top>

The tone of the Defense Motions are becoming quite frantic and dramatic IMO. AT & Company now have Judge Hippler who is well versed on managing all parties to a scheduled and strict timeline, unlike the more laid back former Judge JJ.

• Judge Hippler is the Administrative District Judge for the Fourth Judicial District which encompasses Ada, Boise, Elmore, and Valley Counties. In addition to his administrative duties, he is a District Judge for Ada County where he handles felony cases and civil cases exceeding $10,000.00. According to adacounty.id.gov

It will be interesting to see how he rules on these Motions, but I think the Defense is going to be big disappointed. At least they are making a record.

JMO

EBM: Have to add since I'm a Footnote fanatic, that footnote 2 page 4 was a cheap shot and overstatement IMO.

 

[Nila Aella]

For clarity, this was filed 1/7/2025. <you've got two !!'s at the top>

Thanks, too late to edit.

The tone of the Defense Motions are becoming quite frantic and dramatic IMO.

I don't see this at all.
I see frustration with the discovery process.

AT & Company now have Judge Hippler who is well versed on managing all parties to a scheduled and strict timeline, unlike the more laid back former Judge JJ.

The P filed subsequent expert documents regarding Mowery.
All late and after a MTC was filed.

• Judge Hippler is the Administrative District Judge for the Fourth Judicial District which encompasses Ada, Boise, Elmore, and Valley Counties. In addition to his administrative duties, he is a District Judge for Ada County where he handles felony cases and civil cases exceeding $10,000.00. According to adacounty.id.gov

It will be interesting to see how he rules on these Motions

I agree

, but I think the Defense is going to be big disappointed.

Very interested in his ruling on the MTS Apple warrant and the basis for his ruling.

At least they are making a record.

JMO

EBM: Have to add since I'm a Footnote fanatic, that footnote 2 page 4 was a cheap shot and overstatement IMO.

IMO E Massoth is an excellent attorney.
Cheap shots and overstatements are not her style.
jmo

 

[Balthazar]

Could you remind me of where the "20 skin cells or less" number came from?

As far as I can tell, the only place that info is coming from is Howard Blum. In which case, by your own standards above, it's no more a known fact than the assumption that the murder weapon fits in the sheath that was found beneath two murdered victims who died from wounds caused by a bladed instrument.

Blum got his information on DNA directly from LE sources. Blum doesn't know anything about DNA except what he has been told.

RSBM. Clarifying that this is your opinion and speculation. You assert the unknown DNA was found proximate to the victims as if fact. The fact is we have no idea where in the house they were swabbed. The D filings say nothing about proximity to the victims at all, imo. @PinkParis2052 posted a relevant screenshot from D filing just up thread.

That was a "party house" and we've all seen body cam video of people in there, all over the house during parties. If there was only 2 unknown samples of DNA in the public rooms - living room, kitchen, etc., or NOT proximate to the victims, that means that either the entire house was scrubbed after the murders and only 2 unknown DNA samples were left at some random place in the house OR CSI lifted hundreds of DNA samples and tested them all to find the two unknown samples. Does that sound likely to you?

 

[jepop]

Blum got his information on DNA directly from LE sources. Blum doesn't know anything about DNA except what he has been told.

That was a "party house" and we've all seen body cam video of people in there, all over the house during parties. If there was only 2 unknown samples of DNA in the public rooms - living room, kitchen, etc., or NOT proximate to the victims, that means that either the entire house was scrubbed after the murders and only 2 unknown DNA samples were left at some random place in the house OR CSI lifted hundreds of DNA samples and tested them all to find the two unknown samples. Does that sound likely to you?

I don't agree with your logic. I feel I've made my thoughts and opinions clear on this point in nearby posts. We best not knock heads as there is little point in it! But thank you for clarifying your original post as opinion and conjecture. That's an important and unique element of WS TOS which I value.

 

[MassGuy]

Per the P, they did NOT run it.

Ok, then I imagine that’s because it didn’t have enough genetic material to produce a CODIS hit.

Touch DNA degrades over time, so it had probably been there a while if that’s the case.

 

[jepop]

Ok, then I imagine that’s because it didn’t have enough genetic material to produce a CODIS hit.

Touch DNA degrades over time, so it had probably been there a while if that’s the case.

And not eligible for codis, if recalling correctly, means there is no way local, state LE or FBI would be permitted to engage a genetic genealogy service to attempt an snp profile and undertake IGG on those samples. The Dept of Justice guidelines have been posted before and confirm this I believe. Will repost them when I get a chance. All moo

 

[StarryStarryNight]

They would have almost certainly taken samples from all the victims and all the roommates (DNA and fingerprints), so they could compare those to any samples they recovered. That's when they would have come up with unidentified DNA, which is the only thing relevant here (which is why control samples wouldn't have been mentioned in any filings).

The DNA on the sheath would be problematic if he didn't drive a similar car, his phone activity was normal, he didn't resemble the person the roommate saw, he hadn't driven in the vicinity of the area on multiple occasions, he didn't act like a fricken weirdo with the gloves and trash at his parents house, and didn't fit the profile of an organized killer in every single way.

There's going to be much more evidence than we know thus far though, I'd bet the farm on it.

Well said.

 

[MassGuy]

And not eligible for codis, if recalling correctly, means there is no way local, state LE or FBI would be permitted to engage a genetic genealogy service to attempt an snp profile and undertake IGG on those samples. The Dept of Justice guidelines have been posted before and confirm this I believe. Will repost them when I get a chance. All moo

The guidelines wouldn't even matter. If the profile isn't strong enough to enter into CODIS, then IGG wouldn't help you.

We saw this in the Morphew case, where a touch DNA sample was so genetically limited they could only enter it into CODIS using a manual process, called a keyboard search. This was a very stupid idea, because it came back to multiple different offenders, in multiple states. This gave the defense ammunition to claim that the killer was some sex offender.

A sample like that could never be matched to a particular person, and could only be used to eliminate people.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Blum got his information on DNA directly from LE sources. Blum doesn't know anything about DNA except what he has been told.

That was a "party house" and we've all seen body cam video of people in there, all over the house during parties. If there was only 2 unknown samples of DNA in the public rooms - living room, kitchen, etc., or NOT proximate to the victims, that means that either the entire house was scrubbed after the murders and only 2 unknown DNA samples were left at some random place in the house OR CSI lifted hundreds of DNA samples and tested them all to find the two unknown samples. Does that sound likely to you?

I don’t think it’s weird.
LE is not going to swab every inch of the house, so we’re not looking at every bit of DNA left on every inch of the walls in every room in the house by stumbling intoxicated schoolboys.
Still, I would say DNA on a sheath underneath a victim overrules random unknown DNA found any ol’ where. Whether it’s 20 cells containing BK’s DNA or 20 million cells, it shouldn’t be there…on a knife sheath, under a victim.
As far as different type wounds on different victims I would argue different type ways to stab people with the same knife dependent on whether BK is attacking them while they sleep, or while they are running, or fighting back.

 

[LinasK]

Lol, indeed. You have his DNA on the sheath used to house the murder weapon, but let’s ignore that and point to unidentified touch DNA samples that you’d totally expect to find.

It’s so silly.

Sounds like the usual misdirection of a defense attorney. "Nothing to see here..."

 

[INfisherman]

Sounds like the usual misdirection of a defense attorney. "Nothing to see here..."

Of course there isn’t. Who can focus on anything with all the beautiful stars at which to gaze?

 

[MassGuy]

Of course there isn’t. Who can focus on anything with all the beautiful stars at which to gaze?

One thing all these murder suspects have in common, is how spectacularly unlucky they were on the day/night in question.

Remarkable coincidence after remarkable coincidence.

It’s never just a coincidence though.

 

[INfisherman]

One thing all these murder suspects have in common, is how spectacularly unlucky they were on the day/night in question.

Remarkable coincidence after remarkable coincidence.

It’s never just a coincidence though.

Agreed. Not as smart as they believe they are enters the mind for me as well.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

it’s worth going back to first principles on this. DNA is usually circumstantial. These unidentified samples simply indicate someone was in the shared house at some point or their DNA was transferred there. It does not suggest those people did murders without more.

so yes unidentified DNA on a bloody glove that excludes the defendant could be relevant if the glove itself could be linked to the murder.

But otherwise it proves nothing in the way of alt suspect IMO.

 

[Swansee]

While I agree that DNA on a knife sheath is obviously the number one most suspicious, I still wonder why LE didn't test the other samples just as thoroughly (IGG).
In a crime scene such as this quadruple homicide, there could easily have been more than one perpetrator involved. In those initial weeks, they didn't rule that out.
The original statement from LE regarding SV1 was that they were looking for it's occupant(s), so the potential plural seems to have been a clear option in the mind of the investigators.
Why not test the other samples just as thoroughly as the sheath one? How could LE be sure these weren't accomplices, lookouts or other type of co- perp?

 

[iamshadow21]

While I agree that DNA on a knife sheath is obviously the number one most suspicious, I still wonder why LE didn't test the other samples just as thoroughly (IGG).
In a crime scene such as this quadruple homicide, there could easily have been more than one perpetrator involved. In those initial weeks, they didn't rule that out.
The original statement from LE regarding SV1 was that they were looking for it's occupant(s), so the potential plural seems to have been a clear option in the mind of the investigators.
Why not test the other samples just as thoroughly as the sheath one? How could LE be sure these weren't accomplices, lookouts or other type of co- perp?

The other samples did not meet the threshold for testing.

We've been over this before. 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #95

MOO

 

[Nila Aella]

And not eligible for codis, if recalling correctly, means there is no way local, state LE or FBI would be permitted to engage a genetic genealogy service to attempt an snp profile and undertake IGG on those samples. The Dept of Justice guidelines have been posted before and confirm this I believe. Will repost them when I get a chance. All moo

Please post a link to the need for permission to engage IGG services.

jmo