ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 45

[caradana]

Agree, I think a lot of people misunderstand what an Incel proclaims to be.

MOO. Do they? Elliot Rodger, Dylan Klebold, Alek Minassian - these weren’t physically unattractive guys. I don’t think society misunderstands incels at all. I think most North Americans easily spot them even if they can’t identify precisely why, beyond “awkward” and “staring” and “abrupt.” Doesn’t seem to have much to do with looks, and don’t think it would’ve been hard to stereotypically characterize BK as one in high school or college, either. The people who struggle to ID an angry incel generally share one essential characteristic:
The ones in the deepest denial are their mothers.

 

[Copper107]

Without DNA analysis and new sequencer tech, he might have, though. It's SUCH a relief that this guy is off the streets.

Now they're going to find microscopic evidence from 1122 King in his car.

THere's no way, IMO, that he showered at the scene (without leading TONS of DNA) so of course he got into the car, as far as we know. Sure, he might have changed all of his clothing (what a risk, possibly doing it inside the house - but you can't really change all your clothes with big old kevlar gloves or any usual style of glove without using your ungloved hands). The gloves have the most blood - they *must* be taken off, but the fingers are going to touch blood.

Which will then be on the steering wheel. I know I said it before, but this guy clearly didn't take even an introductory course in human genetics (and that doesn't surprise me, given his course of study).

Maybe there was "tons and tons" of evidence. We won't know until the probable cause arrest affidavit is released, just saying. Investigators got his DNA from somewhere and it began BEFORE they impounded his vehicle. The vehicle which was taken into evidence will/could/should only supporting evidence. LE had enough evidence, before impounding the vehicle, to get a warrant. Not splitting hairs with you just pointing out the vehicle evidence will be forthcoming, the warrant was issued on known and existing evidence.

 

[XtremeScorpio]

I am so grateful today that BK is locked up and will face trial. I feel in my soul he is guilty. I’m proud of the way police handled the case. I am sad for the victims loss of life and for their families. I do not think BK would relate to the suffering he has caused even if he were on death row. It disturbs me there are people like him in our society.

I'm confident the families of these poor young adults have found some relief that an arrest has been made. That, to me, was the tallest hurdle the had to overcome before starting their healing process.

I just hope BK makes it to trial and some "unfortunate accident" doesn't claim him and rob the parents/families of their day in court and chance for justice.

These parents have all shown such great strength throughout this whole process. I wish I could tell each one of them how much I admire that.

I probably would have either been like SG times 100 or would have broken, fallen all to pieces and lost all will to go on if that happened to my child.

 

[Sandy007]

I'm inferring from BK's Pennsylvania lawyer saying that LE probably has cell phone data from the night in question showing him at the WA/Idaho border (which would go to the issue of whether Idaho can, in good faith, claim that BK was in Idaho when the crime occurred to get PA to extradite him back to Idaho), that he did have his cell phone on him that night. JMO. Lawyer of Idaho slayings suspect discusses extradition

If he had his phone on him that night, then he is toast. But I am doubtful he had it. He left it at his flat and will claim that he was at home because his phone was there as if he and his mobile are conjoined twins. If his defence can prove that between 3 and 4 am BK answered calls/text messages on his phone and his phone was located near or in his apartment (mast signals), then it will be interesting.

But first lets see what LE have prepared for him. I am expecting some surprises.

 

[Montecore1]

Incel by the purest definition

MOO I disagree...

 

[Copper107]

Not sure what you're saying. My students tell me they see this behavior daily. At home. In the neighborhood. At school. Are not willing to do anything formal about it whatsoever, would prefer just to go on with life, as it's not going away. I can't dispute that, because indeed, this behavior is longterm.

And what, exactly is the "small thing" that we can do? I try very hard to make myself available to such students and may contrive a reason to have them come to an office hour, where I am great at befriending them (after warning my admin assist of the situation). On days when the office building is devoid of people, yes, it gets creepy. Perhaps this has been the "small way" that has kept my college completely free of mass murder (a lot of us share this philosophy of teaching). But I think that's probably not the right answer.

I was called into a case involving a very similar perp (I just didn't know that yet). I feel that his supervisors (and myself) did everything possible to signal to him that he needed help/change etc. He was a policeman. Other policemen were afraid of him and that's why I was there (but I didn't know that). I didn't know that he was under surveillance within the building and in its parking lots. He was given a choice to get help and stop doing what he was doing (multiple bad things),

He's now serving a 20 year prison sentence, after being transferred to a job where he had very little contact with people and he was undergoing psychiatric and psychological treatment. He still found a way of continuing - and escalating his crimes.

And let me say that the amount spent on this one individual was rather large. And his bosses were so compassionate and tried to get him help. He was, btw, the identical twin of a felon who is also serving a life sentence - and he proudly told me "Had I not become a policeman, I would have been a criminal."

And I believed him. Allowed him to show me around the station and then walk me to my car.

At just one high school where I've been called in, the number of similar misfits and bullies was quite large and no one knew where to begin (and now, 10 years out, yep, some of those boys are now in jail or prison). They got counseling, etc. Everyone treated them with compassion (perhaps, IMO, too much? Boundaries and limits are the key to stopping this kind of behavior, in my professional opinion and there's research to show that).

One of those boys is in a psychiatric facility where he's kept in check (no longer attacking people) due to consistent and firm boundaries. I won't go into what those are - but I could.

Yes, sadly what you say is all to common. I was leaning toward something much more simplistic, in that people can and should show kindness and respect to others whenever possible as you never know whose life you may change.

I am not a Pollyanna, merely stating it is incumbent upon us to have that sense of the "Golden Rule." Guess I'm old school, I appreciate your thought our reply.

 

[TeaTime]

Brilliant and impressive law enforcement. No doubt about it. They where "on it".

It will be interesting to learn what lead LE to him.

This guy is living his PhD and will be happy to share his intellect and insight with the FBI behavioral unit.

 

[B4igo2it]

I suspect college student parking permit records were a big help to LE in identifying any user/owner of the white Hyundai. BK may not be quite as smart as he thinks he is, thankfully he has been stopped from further activity. Now it is Lady Justice’s turn to step in

 

[Friday Fan]

I wonder if BCK attended any of the press conferences...in particular the ones where the parents spoke?

Nowadays all he would need to do is watch the event online. (And it would likely stay on YouTube in some fashion)
Back in the old days, suspects would attend to listen to what was said. Not necessary anymore.

 

[everybodhi]

Arkay​

Tried to read everything but am falling behind.

I agree with all those who are dubious about BK's survey.

I'm a retired teacher, not a professor, with two Master's degrees. Therefore I wrote and defended two theses. Though they did not include surveys I did have both qualitative and quantitative research.

IMO these survey questions put forth by BK are not only sophomoric and vague but truly dangerous.

As many of you have stated, these questions about how the criminals felt during the commission of their crimes are not controlled, and could easily inflame the subjects who enjoy the mental feast of rehashing their crimes.

"Please describe your thoughts and feelings" is an incredibly nebulous question. Specifics would be asked instead, granular questions really, in any survey worth its salt. Definitely not online with no controls.

IMO and experience

I had to go back several threads to your post but it made an impression on me, and you weren’t the only one who questioned the survey, many online questioned whether it was approved or something he just did on his own outside of class.
His instructor for that (online) class has now spoken to the Daily Mail defending the survey as perfectly normal.

A professor at DeSales University, where Kohberger earned his masters in criminal justice, told the Daily Mail he was “one of my best students ever” and said she was “shocked as s**t at what he's been accused of.”

Bolger says she was one of his professors who helped him with his proposal for a graduate thesis including what many have termed an unusual research questionnaire.

'I was one of the professors who helped Bryan with his proposal on his graduate thesis, his capstone project. He did put out a routine questionnaire for his thesis. It looks weird, I understand from the public view. But in criminology it's normal.'

'It's a criminology theory called script theory, it's a normal theory on how and why criminals commit their crime, etc.'

Bolger said, Bryan didn't even end up using any of the data he gleaned from the questionnaire, 'you aren't going to find it anywhere.'

Instead, she said, because he ran out of time, 'his graduate thesis was a narrative one based on the information.'

 

[Boxer]

Incel is thrown around all the time now. And being an incel has nothing to do with looks, which is another common misconception.

It’s literally men who blame women for their inability to have a sexual partner, and are thus involuntarily celibate. It’s not misogynists or people who are “awkward.”

Agree. It’s a grievance with women. And women then avoid them as they sense the grievance.

 

[Vegasgrl]

Since the home address is in Albrightsville (Carbon County) an emissions test is not required, but annual car inspection is required. In PA, the year your inspection runs out is noted by a sticker on your driver side windshield which can be seen from the outside of the vehicle. It's very possible that he needed an inspection ...and oftentimes, things are discovered that need to be repaired before the car shop will "pass" your vehicle and give you the necessary sticker. Tires. Brakes. Headlights, etc.

We also require annual registration in PA...but no longer have a sticker on our license plates for that and there would be no need for the car to be in PA to have that process completed.

(I'm not sure how I did this cold post. I was attempting to reply to someone who asked these questions. Sorry. I really wasn't trying to bore anyone with the details of car/driving regulations in PA. Really. Lol)

Wonder if the PA inspection sticker (driver's side windshield) was visible on the footage of the car? That would quickly narrow things down if they couldn't see the rear license plate.

 

[10ofRods]

well if this is true, bang goes another hundred speculations from the last two threads ( including my own too)

'LaBar said BK's father flew out to WA to drive back with to PA with him for Christmas break. However, LaBar said that was planned before BK went to WA for fall semester that dad would fly out and drive back with BK'

I for one do not believe it until I have another source.

The article makes it sound like it was probably cross-country eyeball surveillance, not GPS tracking:

"It's an incredibly complicated, well-choreographed ballet, if I may, of surveillance efforts that would cross multiple FBI field divisions," McCabe said. "Would involve multiple surveillance teams who were following him in certain areas and handing him off to new teams." Former FBI official explains how agents tracked, surveilled Bryan Kohberger

To put a tracker on the car, they would need a search warrant (Carpenter v. US --Sup. Ct. decision) and I don't think they had probable cause to get a warrant at the start of the trip. JMO.

You think so? I thought so immediately as well, but was persuaded by others' opinions. I sincerely hope so and am waiting impatiently to know. Sticking a GPS tracker on his car, though, would have been cheap and easy (and allow them to send teams out to search for evidence disposal at each place he stopped - but the reason I thought they had an actual car following him is so that LE could roll up to every place he got gas/ate/stopped to check the trash and surroundings for evidence).

Oh, I hope so. "Well choreographed ballet" is a phrase that's making my New Year's Day much more happy.

I meant when he got a parking permit from the University- not an actual DMV regisration

Which he surely had to have (both in terms of rules and everyday reality).

No group of people more likely to turn someone in for not having a permit than other students,

 

[WingsOverTX]

well if this is true, bang goes another hundred speculations from the last two threads ( including my own too)

'LaBar said BK's father flew out to WA to drive back with to PA with him for Christmas break. However, LaBar said that was planned before BK went to WA for fall semester that dad would fly out and drive back with BK'

<modsnip> As with any source, we can believe or not as we choose.

LaBar has no longstanding interest in this case so parroting what he was "told" gets a grain of salt from me.

We just don't know. And maybe never will, private conversations & "plans" are likely to lead us no where without an email, text or other firm corroboration.

Not knocking LaBar, he just doing his job in this case, a very limited job.
JMO

 

[pittsburghgirl]

think I saw its 40 hour trip. Maybe 4 days 10 each day and they stop and see some stuff maybe in Chicago. moo

2500 miles. Two drivers could do it in 2 long days.

 

[XtremeScorpio]

I don't think he was under surveillance for only four days in PA. This article makes it sound like they likely surveilled him from the time he left Pullman until his arrest, albeit under varying degrees, depending on the environment. Former FBI official explains how agents tracked, surveilled Bryan Kohberger

That article is quoting a former FBI agent and I think he's speaking on how it's done via FBI protocol. He's not involved in the Moscow, ID caee so he's basically sharing his opionion.

**edited for spelling (changed "care" to "case")

 

[Charlot123]

Amen. This became my own life's work way back in the 70's (serial killer decade) when a prof told me that we learn more about the core values of humans and cultures by studying who is considered deviant or bad (and studying how different cultures deal with similar problems and the overall planetary calculation of horrific behavior). It's not pretty. I'm retiring next year (and not doing any more criminal cases at the present - except for the company of all of you).

I am SO proud of police in this one. And I started out, 32 years ago, not too fond of police and still remember being anxious after walking into a classroom where everyone wore guns. But the amount I've learned from LE is immeasurable and my view has totally changed.

It must have been horrible. Morality, as I believe, is inborn, although some things can be layered on culturally. However, to deal with people for whom normal basic human considerations won't ever work is scary. To me, the fact that BK did not care what he was doing to his own parents, own sisters, his family, bespeaks such an abyss in forming human attachments, that it is the most frightening.

I am very happy with MPD and Idaho police. From day one, this tiny city (Moscow's) LEO presented themselves in such a professional way, in such a difficult situation.

I wish and hope that you enjoy many, many years of retirement to their fullest!

 

[clearskies1]

That article is quoting a former FBI agent and I think he's speaking on how it's done via FBI protocol. He's not involved in the Moscow, ID care so he's basically sharing his opionion.

I'm aware. I read the article that I posted. That's why I said "likely". It quotes the former deputy director of the FBI, not an agent, who is well aware of protocol.

 

[Puzzles8]

MOO. Do they? Elliot Rodger, Dylan Klebold, Alek Minassian - these weren’t physically unattractive guys. I don’t think society misunderstands incels at all. I think most North Americans easily spot them even if they can’t identify precisely why, beyond “awkward” and “staring” and “abrupt.” Doesn’t seem to have much to do with looks, and don’t think it would’ve been hard to stereotypically characterize BK as one in high school or college, either. The people who struggle to ID an angry incel generally share one essential characteristic:
The ones in the deepest denial are their mothers.

There is an interesting physical similarity when comparing all of their faces. To your list I would add a picture of Adam Lanza.

IMO, some of the physical comparison is related to the fact that they all appear to be very underweight, almost anorexic with long thin faces. Don't know what to make of that if anything. Just an observation

Adam Lanza - Adam Lanza's Psychiatrist Gave Up His License After Allegedly Having Sex With A Patient

Bryan Kohberger - Idaho killing suspect tracked victims before the murder and had a history of being 'creepy' toward women, sources say

JMO

 

[jumpingjackflash]

It's a claim from a "source": "Mobile phone data reportedly shows that Bryan Kohberger, 28, was often in the same location as the three university of Idaho students and one of their boyfriends before he allegedly slashed them to death as they apparently slept at a house off campus, a source close to one of the case’s investigators told the media." Man accused of Idaho murders allegedly stalked students for weeks

I have been treating this particular claim with a great deal of skepticism, both because it comes from a single, unidentified source and because the information is way too vague to make sense of. Are they talking about precise location data from apps? Or pings off of a cell tower?