ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 25

[arielilane]

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[lello2]

No, it isn't a crime to be unconscious. However, it is a crime to be drinking underage. And it is not allowed to be drinking on campus. I am familiar with the Clery Act. My real point in posting the incident above is to show that possibly students are still going about the risky behavior of drinking to unconsciousness even in the midst of the fear that is gripping many in the city. And, is that a result of lax handling of alcohol-related incidents?

Student Code of Conduct | University of Idaho

Learn about U of I’s Student Code of Conduct, which outlines expectations for student behavior, academic dishonesty and community standards.

www.uidaho.edu

In this case, this was at Phi Delt location and they are already on disciplinary probation for health and safety violations.

About the U of I Greek community | University of Idaho

Discover the values and support behind Fraternity and Sorority Life at UIdaho and learn how the Office of Fraternity and Sorority Life fosters leadership, belonging and academic success.

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I just wonder if these get reported or not to the campus when the Moscow PD writes "no report" on the call. You can find the alcohol violations here under the current safety and security report.

Public Safety, Security and Parking | University of Idaho

U of I’s Office of Public Safety, Security and Parking promotes a safe campus, preventing crime and supporting students, employees and visitors.

www.uidaho.edu

View attachment 385938

Drinking is not allowed on campus, and since fraternities and sororities are held to standards with alcohol, it would be interesting to know what (if anything) happens with the number of "unconscious" calls to Moscow PD that happen at UofI.

From what I researched, I found 11 unconscious calls to what I believe are on campus or greek housing from July 27-22 to 11-29-22. That does not include the one I listed above from December at Phi Delt. Of those 11, 2 were reported and 9 were "no reports". So, my question would be. Who is notified of these? Is the University? It would certainly seem not because statistically speaking there was only 1 report for disciplinary action for an alcohol violation in 2021. Clery results are not available for 2022 obviously.

IMO: just to add a slightly different perspective to this observation. In the UK the legal drinking age is 18 so as a broadly sweeping generalisation - drinking culture is pretty big at university and binge drinking is very commonplace. I’m sure these types of reports would definitely not stand out at most university towns in the UK. The point I’m trying to make is that if there was a link between alcohol related incidents amongst a college age population and mass murder - you would expect there to be a lot more of it in the UK but there isn’t. Therefore I am personally (and respectfully) struggling to see the relevance of this horrible crime and college kids doing what they do everywhere which is drink too much, push boundaries, have fun etc. and that certainly doesn’t deserve them of the tragedy that happened in this instance. IMO

 

[LovesPeace2]

From the article:


That's not how things work. He does know that right?

I really feel for the father this is awful but he needs better advisors , it's just a god awful position jmoo

 

[OldCop]

That was tacked on at the end. Everything else referenced driver and occupants. My guess is the car was stolen, but police don't want to give that away.

If the car was stolen, the plate that was on the car might very well not have been the plate that belonged on the car.

I think we are over analyzing LE’s choice of the word occupant. The occupant could be the owner, or not. They don’t know.
It would read better as “find us this car and whoever was in it that night”.

 

[Sjöberg]

In my opinion, it's a witness they are trying to locate. Most of the time a driver, while aware of items around them, might not be aware of their importance. So I think the cops a) know that the driver was in the area to witness something they need corroborated by testimony but b) the driver is not aware of its importance to call in themselves.

MOO

Atm I lean more towards to the car being more directly connected to the murderer by now, because otherwise I hope the LE might have worded the announcement a bit more in a way to make it obvious that it's a witness they look for. But my first thought was actually that they might be looking for a possible dash cam footage. Like they might be interested in a car or pedestrian this white car would have passed or they might have seen something from the dash cam footage from a previous/next car that they want to investigate more.

 

[hopewell]

rsbm
i kind of don't think this will be the case if the police were confident enough to put the information out. They could end up being wrong, of course, but generally i think it will be related in some way. *MOO*

Yes, I am almost certain that they put out the car because they have a LOT of confirming data points on it. Video from the areas of interest and what not.

 

[Eric Trott]

I’m not sure he does. I don’t know who’s advising him, but it’s not all great advice. It hurts to see him & all the others in such pain. I just wish antagonizing LE wasn’t necessary in this case. They need to concentrate on catching this cowardly monster.

Could his request be an attempt to have information be released to the families, and not necessarily to the public? From interviews, it sounds like he is really frustrated at the lack of information that he (as a family member) is being given. Sometimes it's just comforting to be able to know that there is progress being made. Or, if there is not, to get answers as to why.

LE always seems to want families to cooperate with them during investigations. Well, "cooperation" is a two-way street.

As an aside: The dad looks like he's about to go full "Taken" in the town of Moscow. Not that I blame him, but LE should spend some time trying to talk him through the "anger" phase of the grieving process.

 

[OldCop]

Excellent post; thank you.

You’re welcome.

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

Otto is of course correct about fitness watches. They collect data (stored on the device for fairly long periods) about heart rate. I am wearing one right now (Apple watch). I can go and look at my heart rate for a 30 day period (easier to use the app on my phone, but the data is on my watch). I can't remember which other crimes involved fitness watch data, but there are some in the crime annals.

So if even one of the four victims was wearing an Apple watch or Fitbit, that would give a clear ToD for that person and therefore an estimate for the others.

***SPECULATION AHEAD***

Your post made me wonder about a lot of things. I too believe the house was watched. So, we can call that Peeping Tom behavior. In this scenario, the perp has a sexual motivation for this fixation and behavior.

I believe the perp either had access to the house before this fixation was developed OR that he went into the house (perhaps often) after the fixation developed. So now we have a form of stalking bordering on burglary (and we have no clue if this perp took things from the house - the residents themselves might not have noticed),

Perp may then have tried to ingratiate himself into the lives of the people in the house, attending their parties, etc. College students can be quite snippy to people they regard as problem people (which is how this guy may have appeared - not a student, perhaps more than a little "weird" from the POV of the young people in the house). The fact that the house was accessible (and observable) almost 24/7 is part of this case.

The fantasy "love affair" the perp was having with one or more of people in the house was destroyed by actually meeting them and being rebuffed. In this scenario, the perp suffers from a not-so-rare mental condition where they flip on people, going from love to hate in an instant. It's often bizarre and brutal to witness. It's often seen in stalkers.

Perp may not have seen the two downstairs residents often or at all. Perp may have regarded the 4 victims as a kind of "team" who had purposefully excluded him from all hope of human happiness, as he was fixated on one of the them (one of the young women would be the best guess). If in the perp's mind he had an unrequited fantasy relationship with K, then K's departure from the house would have triggered the perp, perhaps inducing actual psychosis, and when K returns briefly, he acts out his psychotic worldview. Psychotic people are often capable of being organized enough to hide the trail of their crime, but if this theory is correct, the perp will have spent many hours over many days thinking through what he wanted to do (because the love fantasy is now replaced with a revenge fantasy and he can't function without his fantasy life).

If this scenario is correct, it's possible that some of the roommates had noticed the "weirdo" inside their house or even asked him to leave if he was inappropriate (likely) at parties. And the odd thing is that many times, young people do not feel the need to be super-vigilant about such people, idealistic as they can be. I know I never thought much about the guy who moved into a spaced outside my room in a large shared house. I mean, I didn't like it at all, it was a covered and screened porch space and there he was, night after night, mostly just sleeping there. I mentioned it only to 1-2 people at the time. It seemed normal, I assumed the guy was a student. I knew people who were living rough while I was at uni, I figured he was just a clever one of those. The house I lived in did not lock its front doors, we all just locked our room doors. It was and still is open 24/7 for anyone to come in and out (except for major vacation periods).

If it was that guy, I would have thought police had a suspect by now.

This appears on the surface to be a bit more sophisticated. Finger prints, DNA don't appear evident as yet.
It would appear, with the very limited information, that's not arisen yet.

Under the circumstances, stabbing four people inside a home with such a brazen act when other people might be coming and going as you say, is high risk and a messy crime that should leave identity evidence

A fellow student, or similar age person goes in and stabs four people to death without a sound and the sliding door is open?

Im not sure this is who we are dealing with here

This feels like someone incited fear opposite the frat house knowing their dna wont turn up on a database after entering a house where the crime scene is somewhat preserved

A few weeks later, there's barely a car on the radar in an urban residential crime in a time with modern technology.

I dont think this is local. This is not serial. This is not compulsive.

Finger prints and dna probably won't be on a database.

The ferocious attack suggests - this is sending a message imoo

 

[hopewell]

I think it very well could be. If the killer was parked on or in the vicinity of Taylor Ave and the crime scene and drove to the east after the killings, they would come to 95s. There is a gas station on that corner, presumably with cctv. LE provided a grid that covered an area that was all south of Taylor Ave. Why? Normally you center the crime scene in the center of a search grid and work your way out. This seems to indicate that LE knows that the killer escaped in a southerly direction.
I have a hunch that LE watched all the video that passed that gas station between about 3:00 am and 4:00 am that morning and have been able to identify most of the vehicles and interview the owners. All the vehicles that turned north or left on 95 from Taylor Ave have been ruled out and most that turned south into the grid area have been identified. They may have quietly tried to ID this car with no luck before making the description public.

BBM. Indeed. I can't think of where it was reported, but early on there were reports of investigators looking in or around Lewiston. Doesn't mean they came up with anything there, but it does further suggest that a southern escape is what they likely found, and fairly early.

My opinion.

 

[Celt1997]

Could his request be an attempt to have information be released to the families, and not necessarily to the public? From interviews, it sounds like he is really frustrated at the lack of information that he (as a family member) is being given. Sometimes it's just comforting to be able to know that there is progress being made. Or, if there is not, to get answers as to why.

LE always seems to want families to cooperate with them during investigations. Well, "cooperation" is a two-way street.

As an aside: The dad looks like he's about to go full "Taken" in the town of Moscow. Not that I blame him, but LE should spend some time trying to talk him through the "anger" phase of the grieving process.

I would think he wants clearer communications to himself and the families, but then the article has him talking about wanting information to be "peer reviewed." That's not how an investigation works. Having the average Joe review critical information is how criminals get set free come time for a trial.

 

[Bhodie]

From the article:


That's not how things work. He does know that right?

I don't think this is a good idea at all as the police, FBI are still actively working on it they have not given up and are in the midst of things. I get he is hurting and we ALL want answers now, but the reality is that many times it does not happen like that, it is so far from what we see on TV. The fact is his emotions are getting ahead of logic and emotions can be detrimental to the case. If there were some fault on any agencies part we will know much later but 1 months is not nearly enough time to solve comb through the lives of 4 murder victims looking for answers, its just not.

 

[FlamingoLady]

Father of murdered Idaho student retains lawyer and may sue police
Father of murdered Idaho student retains lawyer and may sue police

0-0

This seems very unproductive at this point but I can't imagine how he's processing his horrible grief.

 

[Dysfunkshun]

This seems very unproductive at this point but I can't imagine how he's processing his horrible grief.

I agree. I know he’s devastated & impatient... but a gentle touch can work too. Maddie’s stepfather simply asked LE to update him every day whether they had anything new or not. I know he’s frustrated too. They all are.

 

[hopewell]

I can't imagine how he's processing his horrible grief.

Anger, particularly of the projected variety, is one of the stages of grief. I imagine he will process his grief like everyone else, in various stages that often fluctuate between one another. Doubtful he will follow through to the end with a lawsuit, especially if they arrest someone fairly soon.

My opinion.

 

[FlamingoLady]

plus they wouldn't be reporting undergrads to parents would they? unless there was an admission to hospital ( in event that University thought the 'unconsciousness' was a medical emergency)

My kid is at college and it was drilled into our head to get a medical power of attorney or something legal in writing if we wanted to be informed of any medical issues. They are adults and HIPPA is the law. Luckily we have not had to test it so I'm not sure how strictly it's enforced. I think it would depend on the state.

 

[Sjöberg]

early on there were reports of investigators looking in or around Lewiston. Doesn't mean they came up with anything there, but it does further suggest that a southern escape is what they likely found, and fairly early. My opinion.

Can you maybe find a link for the Lewiston bit. My first google search came up empty. (I understand it might not be related, but it would be good to have that link here with the statement, too)

 

[Deleted member 110058]

You guys, this Dad is not supposed to know how LE works. He's not supposed to be acting rationally or doing anything that we might deem normal. His entire internal self is has gone haywire. NOt saying he is crazy but in times of grief, we do not process info like we should. We can short circuit. If it were me, I'd prob be hospitalized by now, tbh.
Ima say we need to give this poor soul some grace. Questioning his judgment, judging what he says, remarks about what he might do next make me personally very uncomfortable. Our role is not to judge him - but to help him.

 

[hopewell]

Can you maybe find a link for the Lewiston bit. My first google search came up empty. (I understand it might not be related, but it would be good to have that link here with the statement, too)

I will do my best! It was via a report on Youtube from one of the major media networks. If I recall, they even had air/drone coverage from above. But like I said, it was pretty early on.

 

[crax.t]

You guys, this Dad is not supposed to know how LE works. He's not supposed to be acting rationally or doing anything that we might deem normal. His entire internal self is has gone haywire. NOt saying he is crazy but in times of grief, we do not process info like we should. We can short circuit. If it were me, I'd prob be hospitalized by now, tbh.Ima say we need to give this poor soul some grace. Questioning his judgment, judging what he says, remarks about what he might do next make me personally very uncomfortable. Our role is not to judge him - but to help him.

excellent post. i agree.