ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 37

[DizzyB]

Do you think this case is made more difficult because there is no homicide unit handling? I know of course that ISP and the FBI are involved, but I am curious about who is conducting the interviews, who are the point people. I’m watching a show that featured the Atlanta Homicide unit, a detective said being a homicide detective is a craft. They also explained that a lot of what they do is eliminating suspects. Ruling people out is most important. Can any investigator work on any type of crime, or does it require a special set of skills to get to the bottom of a murder?

 

[samanthadaniels1995]

Do you mean the 911 call? It hasn’t been released.

You should find a link to the media thread on the first page of this thread.

Moscow police, or someone with access, posts daily calls & responses. You may search for Moscow Police Daily Activity 11/12/2022 and perhaps find it.

 

[10ofRods]

I wonder, did the killer/s lock the door to those two rooms and that’s why the 2 survivors couldn’t enter the rooms? If each room had a key pad lock, did he change the code when he left, and somehow, he knew the previous code/s to enter in the first place? Were the codes the same for each room and something extremely simple like, 1234?
Or, did he lock the door with a conventional key after he exited the rooms? The key discarded? Did first responders need to break open the doors, used a locksmith?

Just more puzzle pieces I’m trying to figure out.
JMO

Good questions. I wonder the same things myself. The pictures of the interior that I've seen show no interior key pad locks on the second floor (don't know about the other floors).

There's a keypad lock on the front door (level 1, facing the car parking area, not the slider area, where LE says the killer entered).

There was a report in DM (perhaps in error) that said Ethan was found "on the floor" and two words from the 911 call (unconscious person) that led many to conjecture that Ethan's body was blocking the door. I tend to go with that theory because as soon as the "friends" get to the house, they are able to open the door.

I can envision a scene in which the killer did his terrible act, knew that Ethan wasn't dead, and simply left, locking the door behind him (through whatever method applied - maybe just a regular lock).

First responders arrived *after* the friends did, and the body was already discovered (because one of the roommates becomes hysterical and one of the friends - a man - takes over the phone call). Pretty sure the identities of those friends is not officially released in MSM yet.

No mention of any doors broken. Early on, all of these details made websleuths from all over the web ponder whether there was any blood leaking out near the door (no word on that) and if the terrified roommates simply couldn't wrap their minds around it - that has happened in the annals of crime.

Short answer is that we simply don't know. Many here have hypothesized that the two survivors might have locked their doors - but we don't know.

 

[samanthadaniels1995]

Do you think this case is made more difficult because there is no homicide unit handling? I know of course that ISP and the FBI are involved, but I am curious about who is conducting the interviews, who are the point people. I’m watching a show that featured the Atlanta Homicide unit, a detective said being a homicide detective is a craft. They also explained that a lot of what they do is eliminating suspects. Ruling people out is most important. Can any investigator work on any type of crime, or does it require a special set of skills to get to the bottom of a murder?

Why do you believe there is no homicide unit ? There are homicides that occur in Moscow, ID. They are near other cities. Not sure how you are assessing Moscow police capabilities.

 

[RayVon]

I also think the jump from hazing to quadruple homicide is a huge leap. This isn't the first time you said you would bet money the killer is in a frat.(I highlighted in bold) You also posted links to the face eating frat guy.

And while I think its possible the killer or killers are in a fraternity, and agree they do have some secrets, I don't think they are particularly malicious and have some code of initiation to go out and kill someone as you have also brought up.
I also suggested that if if the killer was known to the victims and was a student they would likely have some kind of deviant dark side possibly on the internet. But I think it would be someone closer to the victims, such as in a relationhip. I also was very clear that this would be something the FBI would discover. At this point I think its best to keep an open mind. The info that we have from LE is that a white Elantra was involved and since they haven't located it yet suggest its not someone close to the victims.

You have so many other very informative post though. I've spent hours just trying to read though 6 pages so I just hope the killers are found and brought to justice.

Thoughts: IMO
Too many people killed in dense neighborhood.
No sounds. No witnesses.
Too many alibis.
Too many questions.
No one appears to be talking.
Possibly too many threats to witnesses?

 

[wary]

Moscow police, or someone with access, posts daily calls & responses. You may search for Moscow Police Daily Activity 11/12/2022 and perhaps find it.

What is the ‘it’ you’re talking about?

 

[Nila Aella]

Hopefully this will be helpful in understanding where the tire track marks are: The tire tracks appear to be to the left on Queen Road as you are facing 1122 King Road from Queen Road on the right lane of Queen Road. They are not as far up as the apartments next door - they appear to stay on Queen Road and they then turn left at the right bend in Queen Rd but they look a bit out of control - and go down Queen Road on the opposite side of the street heading West and in the opposite direction as far down as the parking that is catty-corner across Queen Road from 1122 King Road front door. There has not been any indication of tire tracks in the driveway/parking area of 1122 King Road.View attachment 390101

LOL. Took me a while and I needed an aerial view of the streets. Very helpful. Thank you!

 

[rahod1]

Thoughts: IMO
Too many people killed in dense neighborhood.
No sounds. No witnesses.
Too many alibis.
Too many questions.
No one appears to be talking.
Possibly too many threats to witnesses?

Assuming there are witnesses....The killer would be exposing themselves to another level of scrutiny by contacting witnesses with threats.
MOO... no witnesses.

 

[DizzyB]

Why do you believe there is no homicide unit ? There are homicides that occur in Moscow, ID. They are near other cities. Not sure how you are assessing Moscow police capabilities.

If there is a homicide unit, they haven’t been busy. Not a murder in seven years. I believe that they are more of a full service police department. I’m just spitballing here, this seems to be a pretty complex case. I’m not saying they are incapable of handling a case of this magnitude, I just wonder if experience can help in the process. I’m not disparaging local LE, I just think that the more times you do a thing, the better you get at it. If the FBI is part of the interview process, I assume they have seen more homicides.

 

[sunshineray]

Do you think this case is made more difficult because there is no homicide unit handling? I know of course that ISP and the FBI are involved, but I am curious about who is conducting the interviews, who are the point people. I’m watching a show that featured the Atlanta Homicide unit, a detective said being a homicide detective is a craft. They also explained that a lot of what they do is eliminating suspects. Ruling people out is most important. Can any investigator work on any type of crime, or does it require a special set of skills to get to the bottom of a murder?

I'd say, IMO, evidence is evidence but interviewing/interrogation is a skill some are better at than others. Sometimes it's acquired by classes and training, sometimes it's just in a person's nature to be good at it...like some are born litigators, some are born lie detectors and interrogators. They notice things and quickly adjust, seeing through the bs. Hopefully there are both involved on this case. AJMO

 

[10ofRods]

I also think the jump from hazing to quadruple homicide is a huge leap. This isn't the first time you said you would bet money the killer is in a frat.(I highlighted in bold) You also posted links to the face eating frat guy.

And while I think its possible the killer or killers are in a fraternity, and agree they do have some secrets, I don't think they are particularly malicious and have some code of initiation to go out and kill someone as you have also brought up.
I also suggested that if if the killer was known to the victims and was a student they would likely have some kind of deviant dark side possibly on the internet. But I think it would be someone closer to the victims, such as in a relationhip. I also was very clear that this would be something the FBI would discover. At this point I think its best to keep an open mind. The info that we have from LE is that a white Elantra was involved and since they haven't located it yet suggest its not someone close to the victims.

You have so many other very informative post though. I've spent hours just trying to read though 6 pages so I just hope the killers are found and brought to justice.

<modsnip>


I have about 100 theories. Some of them fall into "solo perp" territory. A few of them fall into "more than one person involved." On my list for "more than one person as perp," first on my list is a group of people who live together, are *very* tight in terms of their relationships and secrecy terms. Killers do not usually take their friends along, do they?

Since every single person murdered was part of Greek life and since there are active fraternities nearby, IF A GROUP of people committed this, I think it's the Greeks.

Second theory (which I have also mentioned but no one remembers that I"m merely listing theories) would be local cult of some other type.

I do not think it was a motorcycle gang or a drug cartel. IF IT WAS A GROUP of people, it's NOT, imo, a drug cartel. Or a group of hunters. Or a motorcycle gang. Or a trade union.

I have no opinion really on whether fraternities are "particularly malicious." Any group of people can become malicious, is my view after 40 years of working in forensics. Any group at all. But it's rarely a group.

What's the last group murder you heard about? For me, they are *all* gang-related. But I don't see any evidence of traditional gangs in Moscow, ID.

<modsnip >


I simply stated that ONE KIND OF MOTIVE is to suppress someone from saying something they know - about something. One kind of motive is secrecy. If a group of people attack other people, it's a COMMON MOTIVE. I've seen it many times. I never said it was an initiation ritual. I just said that IF there were alcohol use - or even worse, hazing - or even worse, sexual assaults inside an organization (in this case, a fraternity), there is MOTIVE for people (especially the actual ones involved) to cover it up - perhaps even including homicide. Wouldn't be the first time.

But I don't believe it was a group-created murder (yet).

<modsnip>

 

[BaseballMama]

True, but even the family members who have spoken haven't mentioned it either.

I don’t think, in the scope of what’s happened, anyone cares about the dog. It’s the least of their worries. If my daughter was murdered, I wouldn’t be talking about her dog when trying to keep her story in the news.

 

[SteveP]

We all are entitled to have, and probably do have our own theories, but with no more information than has been made public, there is no way any of us have anything more than theories, and one person's theory is likely just as valid as another's. I do, however, appreciate hearing theories that I have perhaps not considered. JMO

 

[RayVon]

No need to do that. You're entitled to your own theory.

You are a very good writer.

 

[Imogenia]

Thank you - yes, to me it's a very broad term. Even schizophrenia varies a bit by culture and by degree of disordered thinking.

I had to defend a post I made that stated I know schizophrenics who are high functioning (and I do) ,

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0253717620941191

Thought disorder, or formal thought disorder, is one of Schneider’s First Rank Symptoms, most of which being necessarily present (at the time, mid-twentieth century or thereabouts), he postulated, for the making of a definitive diagnosis of schizophrenia.

I’ve been told that one would need to understand exactly what Schneider meant, in the German, in order fully to grasp each of the First Rank Symptoms as demonstrated in schizophrenia.

Despite European and American psychiatry evolving somewhat differently thereafter, the phenomenon of thought disorder is still currently useful in understanding schizophrenia on both sides of the pond.

The Indian quantitative research study published in 2020 that I’ve linked above differentiates between thought disorder as currently understood and classical thought disorder (more of a Schneiderian emphasis).

The researchers urge that clinicians do not forget that the profound classical thought disorder, commonly seen in schizophrenia, leads on to executive dysfunction, so there is extreme difficulty in planning, then carrying out, actions.

I agree with you that a person with schizophrenia would have been very unlikely to have planned and executed such a crime.

I agree that the influence of certain drugs could have enabled a person to carry out this crime. I think that some drugs cause a person’s mentation to be disturbed, which is another way of saying that they can cause thinking to be disturbed or disordered. If they also exacerbate feelings of rage, then we have a recipe for disaster, when a weapon is to hand. IMO.

What a dreadful tragedy.

 

[NeverPersonal]

<modsnip - comment about someone who is not a named suspect or poi >
I'm thinking more along these lines -
A person with little human connection and rejection issues. Desperately craves control. Thinks violence is a good substitute. May or may not be a literal sociopath, MOO.
Idaho murders: FBI profiler says suspect could go to victims' funerals to take 'pleasure' in crimes (q13fox.com)
<modsnip>

 

[Kittycat40]

We all are entitled to have, and probably do have our own theories, but with no more information than has been made public, there is no way any of us have anything more than theories, and one person's theory is likely just as valid as another's. I do appreciate hearing theories that I have perhaps not considered. JMO

Amen to that!!!!

Also I would like to add that there’s nothing wrong with respectfully countering someone’s theory about something that you may disagree with. For example, I debated someone on this forum about why the killer or killers went and killed the 2 people on the 2nd floor and killed the 2 people on the 3rd floor and left the 2 girls on first floor unharmed. Part of that debate involved whether the killer or killers knew that there were even 2 girls down on the first floor to begin with and if he did whether their doors were locked or not and whether the killer could get into a room if locked etc.

But as you said all we have are theories and speculation at this point. Nothing wrong with that of course.

Until the killer and or killers are caught we won’t truly be able to piece together motive, exact time of killing, how they for sure got in and out, the exact type of knife, what car they took to the murder house etc etc.

But we can all continue to theorize and debate respectfully as that what this forum is for.

JMO

 

[NCgardener]

Any explanation for the SUV a neighbor allegedly saw? LE are asking for help to find the Elantra. No mention of the SUV. Moo.

Neighbor of University of Idaho murder house heard a scream on night of attack

Inan Harsh, 30, who lives in an apartment building next to the off-campus home in Moscow, said he returned from his job as a cook at around 1:30 a.m. on Nov. 13 and later heard someone yell.

nypost.com

I don't like that he remembers things so much later; the dude loves doing interviews, apparently! I don't know how to politely say a couple of things that are probably pertinent here, lol

I think I do understand why the cops might not take him as the best witness. I'll just put it that way. I wouldn't have everyone looking for the black car if the only source is him. Probably a red herring, imo. But maybe not! It's too hard to tell, darnit.

 

[layer]

Any explanation for the SUV a neighbor allegedly saw? LE are asking for help to find the Elantra. No mention of the SUV. Moo.

The logical conclusion is that they located the SUV and cleared the occupant(s). But there are other, more complicated possibilities.

JMHO

 

[Deleted member 718]

Link was in my post.

Check the bulleted list in the article.

Article here.

It's a really good article from a close friend/sorority sister who lives in a home right behind 1122.