ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #10

[TeaTime]

GGP ASSUMED the child went over the bank (whatever is meant by that). He didn't see it happen.

I believe that LE knew from the very beginning that the family arrived on Thursday night. WE did not know for while but those who matter did.

While we speculate on how long the child was missing before the 911 calls were made, rest assured LE has a more specific timeline.

Are there any searches going on this weekend?

 

[SweetT]

GGP ASSUMED the child went over the bank (whatever is meant by that). He didn't see it happen.

I believe that LE knew from the very beginning that the family arrived on Thursday night. WE did not know for while but those who matter did.

While we speculate on how long the child was missing before the 911 calls were made, rest assured LE has a more specific timeline.

Are there any searches going on this weekend?

GGP didnt lose his child. He assumed the baby caught up with his parents. I'm just saying, the baby is not ggpa's responsibility it is the parents responsibility to watch their children, not to blame ggp for something he didn't even know he was doing (Babysitting) They never stated that they ASKED ggpa to babysit <modsnip>

 

[desert-blue]

So they want us to believe that they expected ggp to keep up with a 2 year old in the wilderness while wearing a oxygen tank?

Not only that, but DK stated that Deorr "was going to be good with grandpa by the campfire." Oxygen tank, campfire, toddler - not a good mix.

 

[SweetT]

IDK what type of oxygen tank ggpa had or if he used it 24/7 as I recall others stating there were various types etc that would not necessary be a danger with the campfire issue.
But a 2 yr old being watched in the wilderness by an elderly man who probably couldnt keep up is probably not a good idea. Lots of questions...

 

[Little Ol Me]

Sheriff Bowerman:

"Primarily, the information we have is&#8230;grandpa is watching the child. He tells me he looks away momentarily. When he looks back, he&#8217;s gone, and he&#8217;s assumed he&#8217;s gone over the bank".

Sheriff Bowerman:

"Grandfather assumes he&#8217;s gone down to them because he was within their line of sight and uh, wasn&#8217;t too far from the campground".

It sounds to me like GGPA did know he was watching DJ

GGPA, *assumes*, he went down to them. It appears to me that GGPA doesn't know which direction DJ went.

 

[pinkshoemama]

This. This snip right here is (IMO) what I would consider to be one of the key points about the realities, of the last moments leading up to little Deorr going missing. I think this behavior, whatever it was, has caused them much guilt & (imo) guilt can be almost dibilating when facing or acknowledging the truth.

What did mom and dad do after going over the edge that they wouldnt have noticed the baby right behind them is my question.. JMO.

Not that I mean to imply intended guilt on the parents part. I also have my doubts about GGPas friend. What I do mean to imply is that, either his disappearance is one accident after the next to the next & on & on OR someone is hiding something & hiding to me screams guilt. This whole case screams guilt actually. I just returned earlier today w/ my husband & our 2 small sons 2 yrs & 4 yrs & it has given me an entirely new perspective on little Deorrs disappearance.

A hoax (SADLY) wouldn't shock me either though. Ah! I'm back to stumped. [emoji13]

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[SweetT]

Sheriff Bowerman:

"Primarily, the information we have is&#8230;grandpa is watching the child. He tells me he looks away momentarily. When he looks back, he&#8217;s gone, and he&#8217;s assumed he&#8217;s gone over the bank".

Sheriff Bowerman:

"Grandfather assumes he&#8217;s gone down to them because he was within their line of sight and uh, wasn&#8217;t too far from the campground".

It sounds to me like GGPA did know he was watching DJ

GGPA, *assumes*, he went down to them. It appears to me that GGPA doesn't know which direction DJ went.

The wording is questionable on that to me... Never have I read or seen where he was "asked" to watch the child. I'm watching wildlife outside my window right now, but I was never asked to, or tasked with it. Just saying.

 

[ILOKAL]

<modsnip>FB didn't even have the correct day until 21 days after little Deorr disappeared. The conclusion drawn that LE didn't know the correct information because "we" didn't know it is really difficult to comprehend. IMO

 

[ILOKAL]

IDK what type of oxygen tank ggpa had or if he used it 24/7 as I recall others stating there were various types etc that would not necessary be a danger with the campfire issue.
But a 2 yr old being watched in the wilderness by an elderly man who probably couldnt keep up is probably not a good idea. Lots of questions...

70 is NOT old and hasn't been considered old for quite some time now!

 

[SweetT]

Since we now know that they showed up at the campsite on Thursday evening, does this mean the convenience store lady seeing Deorr at 6pm was really from the previous night and not Friday? Anyone know?

 

[ILOKAL]

Sheriff Bowerman:

"Primarily, the information we have is&#8230;grandpa is watching the child. He tells me he looks away momentarily. When he looks back, he&#8217;s gone, and he&#8217;s assumed he&#8217;s gone over the bank".

Sheriff Bowerman:

"Grandfather assumes he&#8217;s gone down to them because he was within their line of sight and uh, wasn&#8217;t too far from the campground".

It sounds to me like GGPA did know he was watching DJ

GGPA, *assumes*, he went down to them. It appears to me that GGPA doesn't know which direction DJ went.

Who was within who's line of sight?

 

[DexterMorgan]

Sheriff Bowerman:

"Primarily, the information we have is…grandpa is watching the child. He tells me he looks away momentarily. When he looks back, he’s gone, and he’s assumed he’s gone over the bank".

Sheriff Bowerman:

"Grandfather assumes he’s gone down to them because he was within their line of sight and uh, wasn’t too far from the campground".

It sounds to me like GGPA did know he was watching DJ

GGPA, *assumes*, he went down to them. It appears to me that GGPA doesn't know which direction DJ went.

Yes: He was watching the child. He was watching the child follow right behind his parents. Lol

So he was not ask to babysit the child or he would have told the child to comeback here.

Ggp said it loud and clear. He saw the kid following them in their direction; So he assumed that they were all together.

So why are they using ggp to act like they didn't know that their kid was following them?

What parents don't constantly look back to see if their toddler is running behind them. I bet the kid took off after mom and dad 2 seconds after they started walking.

 

[SweetT]

70 is NOT old and hasn't been considered old for quite some time now!

Did I say old? I said elderly man ...I say 70 is elderly, its surely not a young spring chicken. Matter of opinion. My mother is 72 in great shape and no oxygen. Could she keep up with my daughters kids on a camp out? I doubt it but she might surprise me.

 

[kammiemc]

<modsnip>

I would think they would care VERY much about LE, Nate and the public having the correct information, particularly if they were trying to get tips from the public about a suspected abduction (their theory). Perhaps no one saw other campers on Fri, but maybe someone out there saw something Thurs night.
Remember what a huge deal it was right here on WS when we were speculating that the parents might have arrived Thurs, based on the PI's comment. Some people were really upset about that, saying it couldn't be so because the parents had already brought forth the timeline.
It was a big deal when we learned of the discrepancy then and it's an even bigger deal now given the silence. IMO. I am open to almost any scenario, but I can't logically completely rule out something happening involving any of the POI's. Nor have LE or the FBI from what we know.



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[starfire]

<modsnip>

It seems as though the sheriff may have made an assumption on when they arrived and when the detectives re-interviewed the parents the ERROR was discovered. As to when some on the forum found out from the grandmother's FB, that wasn't even until three weeks (21-days) after little Deorr disappeared. I don't think we can nor should conclude that the incorrect arrival date was due to misinformation provided by the parents, nor do we have reason to believe the parents even realized the wrong information was out there. Seems to me they had much more on their emotional plate that would prevent them from even caring about something that had absolutely nothing to do with when and why their little boy disappeared. All IMO, of course.

Respectfully, I disagree. The hours before a child goes missing and the last person/people to see the child are very important, IMO. Having the wrong date could hamper the investigation as far as potential witnesses who may have seen something suspicious on Thursday and so on. What if someone saw something suspicious in Leadore or at the campground on Thursday but didn't report it because they thought it was irrelevant due to the misreported Friday timeline? Maybe there were campers in the upper campground who left very early Friday morning or when the family was in Leadore on Friday (that the family didn't see or hear leave) who weren't sought out and interviewed. In their interview, the parents seemed to firmly believe that little Deorr may have been abducted, so one would think that they would want the public to have the correct timeline.

 

[kammiemc]

Respectfully, I disagree. The hours before a child goes missing and the last person/people to see the child are very important, IMO. Having the wrong date could hamper the investigation as far as potential witnesses who may have seen something suspicious on Thursday and so on. What if someone saw something suspicious in Leadore or at the campground on Thursday but didn't report it because they thought it was irrelevant due to the misreported Friday timeline? Maybe there were campers in the upper campground who left very early Friday morning or when the family was in Leadore on Friday (that the family didn't see or hear leave) who weren't sought out and interviewed. In their interview, the parents seemed to firmly believe that little Deorr may have been abducted, so one would think that they would want the public to have the correct timeline.

Exactly.


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[CatsInTheCradle]

Just to refresh:

Nate Eaton:
“Let’s go back to the beginning. Can you kind of give us a timeline as to when the family arrived and what proceeded?”

Sheriff Bowerman:
“Well, the family, from what I understand, that we learned during the investigation arrived the evening prior to July 10th, sometime fairly close to dark on Thursday, July 9th, and then, uh, they went to uh…went to town in uh Leadore and upon returning they supposedly thought they were turning their child over to their uh, grandfather – the child’s great-grandfather. They went down to the creek which is right next to the campground, and within 10 to 15 minutes they go up to find their child to show him some fish in the stream and he’s nowhere to be found. Grandfather assumes he’s gone down to them because he was within their line of sight and uh, wasn’t too far from the campground. Uh, they started their initial search and eventually called 911 when they realized they couldn’t find the child. “

Nate Eaton:
1:05
“Where was Mr. Renwand during all of this?”

Sheriff Bowerman:
1:08
(Using his hands to demonstrate)
“He was in the same general proximity. The creek…it’s just over the bank. Um, he’s downstream, they’re upstream. Uh, they’re all within probably (head nodding left to right) 100 to 150 feet of each other. “

Nate Eaton:
“Very close proximity.”

Sheriff Bowerman:
“Very close.”

Thanks for bringing this forward. All within 100 to 150 feet of each other and GGP watches the baby toddle away. No matter how many times I read this, it will never make sense. Something is wrong/off/incorrect somewhere in the accounts of that day/timeline/distance/events/where people were/what they were doing, etc. :notgood: JMO

 

[kammiemc]

Did I say old? I said elderly man ...I say 70 is elderly, its surely not a young spring chicken. Matter of opinion. My mother is 72 in great shape and no oxygen. Could she keep up with my daughters kids on a camp out? I doubt it but she might surprise me.

My mom is 74 and in the best shape physically and mentally. She is an awesome caretaker to children. My dad is also 74 and has dementia (likely Alzheimer's but not officially diagnosed at this point). We can't leave him alone at all with any of the kids, especially not out on the ranch where there are steep hills, a creek and pretty aggressive coyotes and bulls.

My point is that it really depends.

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[DexterMorgan]

Exactly.


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Boom.

 

[Little Ol Me]

Who was within who's line of sight?

Good question.

I assume that this means that Mom & Dad are within GGPA line of sight,...at least at some point. If they remain within GGPA line of sight, wouldn't he know that Deorr was not with them? Wouldn't GGPA then say, I saw DJ with his parents?

GGPA can't know If DJ is within the line of his parents sight.