ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #10

[ILOKAL]

eld·er·ly (ĕl′dər-l&#275
adj.
1. Being past middle age and approaching old age; rather old.
2. Of, relating to, or characteristic of older persons or life in later years.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/elderly

elderly
adjective el·der·ly \ˈel-dər-lē\
: old or rather old : past middle age

Full Definition of ELDERLY
1 a : rather old; especially : being past middle age
b : old-fashioned
2 of, relating to, or characteristic of later life or elderly persons
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/elderly

[el-der-lee]
adjective
1. of advanced age; old:
2. of or relating to persons in later life.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/elderly

GGP may feel like a spring chicken but I'm 99% sure he's elderly. :gaah:

http://www.npr.org/2013/03/12/174124992/an-age-old-problem-who-is-elderly

 

[ILOKAL]

Every time I read Bowerman's quote I read it as they went to Leadore and the store Thursday night.
Read it again.

IMO, if you read it that way they would have had to stay overnight in Leadore before returning to the campsite, because he says it was "upon" their return that they thought they had turned little Deorr over to GGPA.

ETA: I admit that the sheriff seems to have difficulty communicating his thoughts clearly, and this is a good example of that.

 

[rkf]

But WHY?? The police have said over and over that they think the chance of abduction is just about nil. They clearly think he's lost in the woods, in the water, or met his fate w an animal. They clearly don't think that the media reporting the time wrong will have any change whatsoever in the outcome. Why do you think over all the other things they could be doing, they would prioritize this?? Sure if they were thinking abduction, absolutely the timeline matters. I'm just so confused why so many people seem to feel entitled to knowing every little detail the police know and seem so hellbent on creating sinister drama. So a news report comes out tomorrow and says, "updated info: the family actually arrived Thursday!" And then what? What changes?? Nothing.

I would think it would be more important to the parents who believe their child was kidnapped. What if a witness saw someone "eyeing" DeOrr when they stopped for fuel on Thursday night? What if someone camping at Timber Creek Thursday left early Friday morning, but saw someone suspicious nearby as they were driving out? If the parents and LE are not in agreement regarding what happened to DeOrr, I'd think people would release information relevant to his/her theory that might help find DeOrr. If a stranger saw DeOrr somewhere and followed the family to Timber Creek, having an accurate timeline could help generate leads. I agree, LE wouldn't have any reason to straighten out MSM unless asked specifically (except the sheriff said he can't rule abduction out, even if he is convinced it didn't happen). But, like a child's eye color, when the smallest detail could make the difference between a child being found or not, distributing an accurate timeline would be critical to me (if I was the parent).

ETA: ITA that if LE is correct that DeOrr was not abducted, providing an accurate timeline to the public won't change anything, since LE wouldn't need the public to come forward with pertinent information.

 

[neesaki]

Because he saw DJ follow his parents.

JMO, but what the sheriff stated that GGP said isn't necessarily what happened, because GGP may not know exactly what happened. If GGP is on oxygen he very possibly has other symptoms concerning his breathing and circulatory issues which could very well interfere with his overall cognition, including but not limited to his attention span, attention to detail, memory, and maybe more importantly, his alertness. He may have even dozed off for a few minutes, possibly without realizing it, or didn't want to admit it if he did know. Maybe he saw the parents walk away, then dropped off, then came to and saw little Deorr toddle off and really thought he was right behind his parents, when in fact the parents were no where in sight. JMO

 

[rkf]

Every time I read Bowerman's quote I read it as they went to Leadore and the store Thursday night.
Read it again.

Yeah, he left out an awful lot. Skipped over everything between 9:30 pm and about 1 pm!

 

[neesaki]

Didn't IR ride with ggp? If DK and JM slept in ggp's Suburban, while ggp slept in the camper pulled by the Suburban and IR slept in a tent, ggp and IR would have had to arrive on or before Thursday night.

Actually I think you're correct, according to what we've been told. So if IR didn't see little Deorr at all, that leaves the possibility of little Deorr being asleep the night they arrived, and IR leaving the campsite the next morning and not seeing him then. Idk, I'm just trying to come up with why the sheriff would say he's 99 % sure he was at the campsite instead of there's no doubt he was at the campsite, as in 100%.

You're welcome!!! By the way, in the little box where we write things, is there a way to enlarge it?

That's a good question, all I know is it didn't used to be that way. It is quite small isn't it?

 

[rkf]

You're welcome!!! By the way, in the little box where we write things, is there a way to enlarge it?

In the picture below, where the red arrow is pointing - drag that corner of the reply box down with your mouse/touch pad and the box should expand.

HTH

 

[ILOKAL]

Actually I think you're correct, according to what we've been told. So if IR didn't see little Deorr at all, that leaves the possibility of little Deorr being asleep the night they arrived, and IR leaving the campsite the next morning and not seeing him then. Idk, I'm just trying to come up with why the sheriff would say he's 99 % sure he was at the campsite instead of there's no doubt he was at the campsite, as in 100%.



That's a good question, all I know is it didn't used to be that way. It is quite small isn't it?

LOL re: Mick. "I" thought Mick wanted to know how to enlarge the "words" in the box!

 

[TeaTime]

Didn't JM agree and say "yes" when the operator confirmed "an hour?" I get a little hesitant to presume she was mistaken or meant something different. It's possible, , but I am more inclined to think she confirmed it was an hour (technically, about an hour) because that was the actual timeframe or at least she wanted the operator to believe it was. (So she'd be taken seriously, for example.)


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I agree with one point here. She was frantic after 20 minutes of searching and wanted LE and search teams there ASAP and as all of you know, all sense of time changes when you are panicked. Maybe it felt like an hour to her. Maybe '20 minutes' wouldn't get an immediate rescue response and she exaggerated a bit so that LE wouldn't say "keep looking, if you don't find him in 10 minutes, call back."

Everyone must think of this mother's panic, think of this being your baby. Please don't dissect her choice of words at the single most devastating time of her life. Have Mercy on her.

 

[neesaki]

LOL re: Mick. "I" thought Mick wanted to know how to enlarge the "words" in the box!

LOL, that's what I thought too. No? :dunno: :giggle:

 

[desert-blue]

That's a good question, all I know is it didn't used to be that way. It is quite small isn't it?

You can click on the little triangle shape in the lower right corner of the box and drag it down to make the box bigger. At least that works for me. HTH.

ETA: sorry, I'm a little late on this, I see it's already been explained above.

 

[neesaki]

You can click on the little triangle shape in the lower right corner of the box and drag it down to make the box bigger. At least that works for me. HTH.

Just call me confused, I thought the question was how to make the words bigger inside the quote box. :wave:

 

[ILOKAL]

Actually I think you're correct, according to what we've been told. So if IR didn't see little Deorr at all, that leaves the possibility of little Deorr being asleep the night they arrived, and IR leaving the campsite the next morning and not seeing him then. Idk, I'm just trying to come up with why the sheriff would say he's 99 % sure he was at the campsite instead of there's no doubt he was at the campsite, as in 100%.



That's a good question, all I know is it didn't used to be that way. It is quite small isn't it?

I still don't understand how GGPA and IR could not have seen little Deorr and his parents. If they (the parents and DJ) went from their truck to the Suburban which had been occupied by GGPA and IR, wouldn't they all have seen each other when moving to and taking their new sleeping locations? And it seems from comments made that GGPA and IR MUST have followed DK and his parents (in their truck) to the campground, because although GGPA does still drive, he doesn't seem well enough physically and mentally to have made THAT drive and IR, from what's been said and observed, doesn't seem to have been able to find his way there either. So, IMO, they must have all arrived simultaneously and how could they not have seen each other?

 

[Suthrnqt]

Checking in and catching up. I was hoping that the little guy would have been discovered by now. IMVHO, I do not see this ending very well. At this point, I highly doubt he will be found alive. And I hated to type that. Ugh.

 

[rkf]

LOL, that's what I thought too. No? :dunno: :giggle:

Maybe that IS what he meant! LOL

 

[ILOKAL]

Maybe that IS what he meant! LOL

If we want a straight answer, maybe we should ask the sheriff. My bad!

 

[TeaTime]

There is not a Grandpa in the world who would let his 2 year old grandson walk away in the wilderness and not go after him. If he couldn't go after the child, he would be yelling for the others, if he coudn't yell, he would be honking a horn to get their attention and if he couldn't do that he would be walking without his 02 towards the parents to make sure.

Think of this pour soul. He is enjoying a family get together while camping at his favorite campsite one more time before he dies. Then his grandson disappears and he is the last person to have seen the child alive.

How much pain must he feel? You know he feels completely responsible. Imagine his grief. Pray for him.

 

[Suthrnqt]

Ok just something I would like to 'put on the table'. A lot of people talk different. GGP saying DeOrr went over the embankment might simply mean he went up and and kind of out of sight where GGP last saw JM and DK.

It's kind of a Southern Thing.

Doesn't mean he fell down in a creek or down a hill. Just means he was walking along and due to the up and down of the pavement he went out of sight.

Just throwing it out there.

MOO

Is GGP from the South? Was anyone who was on the camping trip from the South? All I know is Idaho is not in the South. So, how is the regional vernacular considered a Southern Thing?

 

[kammiemc]

I agree with one point here. She was frantic after 20 minutes of searching and wanted LE and search teams there ASAP and as all of you know, all sense of time changes when you are panicked. Maybe it felt like an hour to her. Maybe '20 minutes' wouldn't get an immediate rescue response and she exaggerated a bit so that LE wouldn't say "keep looking, if you don't find him in 10 minutes, call back."

Everyone must think of this mother's panic, think of this being your baby. Please don't dissect her choice of words at the single most devastating time of her life. Have Mercy on her.

I agree.
That's my point. I am not sure why anyone would dissect her words. I am inclined to believe that what she said was what she believed, or at least wanted the operator to know at that time. I don't think I understand why it would be incriminating for her or any of the other POI's if "an hour" or "about an hour" was indeed the time little DeOrr was missing. So, to me, it's no big deal. I'm inclined to believe what she said on the 911 call. Why not?


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[TeaTime]

I think the only thing I hesitate to believe is that #3 is a 100% true, indisputable fact.

I don't have any reason to doubt it's true. But the sheriff's statement is way open for interpretation. For instance, if he had said "I am 99% sure that the sky is blue" that would leave a sliver of possibility that it might not be the case. I would not think he meant that in his mind that was a concrete fact. JMO!

ETA: changed example to the sky so as not seem like I am creating a monster where one does not exist.


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The ONLY way the Sheriff could say that he was 100% sure the child was at the campsite is if he witnessed it himself. 99% is pretty dang sure. So there is a 1% chance, because he is not an eye witness, that the child was never there.

1% chance. Tells me everyone (all 4) actually said they saw the child there.

IR doesn't know anything. He was fishing. When asked whether GGP was watching the child when the child disappeared he said "as far as I know that is what happened" So, he was told what happened. He didn't witness anything.