ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #10

[Hoosier952]

Welcome to my world! Yes, if something more sinister did not happen, I think he'll be found MILES from the campground, and it would not surprise me if it is higher in elevation. If you haven't had one of these little guys in your care for a while, it's hard to believe how much energy they have.

I think if he wandered off, he could definitely be far more than 2.5 miles. Especially if he had a significant head start on anyone looking. I also know my girls were pretty fond of running the opposite direction when I called for them. They thought it was a fun game. I also think there would have been plenty of things to distract him and keep him from getting worried. Even a 1/4-1/2 mile head start would be huge and wouldn't take that much time, and would probably prevent Deorr from hearing anyone yell, and even if he could, he probably couldn't tell which direction he needed to go to get closer to them.

Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if he was missed in the initial search area either. That seems to happen quite a bit and he'd be a pretty small target.

 

[Mickshawn]

Welcome to my world! Yes, if something more sinister did not happen, I think he'll be found MILES from the campground, and it would not surprise me if it is higher in elevation. If you haven't had one of these little guys in your care for a while, it's hard to believe how much energy they have.

Why "higher in elevation"????

 

[BlkMtnGirl]

Why "higher in elevation"????

Because my baby the same age can run/crawl/climb up much easier than down. Going downhill is slower and he falls a lot more going downhill.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

L

welcome to my world! yes, if something more sinister did not happen, i think he'll be found miles from the campground, and it would not surprise me if it is higher in elevation. If you haven't had one of these little guys in your care for a while, it's hard to believe how much energy they have.

411

 

[desert-blue]

I think if he wandered off, he could definitely be far more than 2.5 miles. Especially if he had a significant head start on anyone looking. I also know my girls were pretty fond of running the opposite direction when I called for them. They thought it was a fun game. I also think there would have been plenty of things to distract him and keep him from getting worried. Even a 1/4-1/2 mile head start would be huge and wouldn't take that much time, and would probably prevent Deorr from hearing anyone yell, and even if he could, he probably couldn't tell which direction he needed to go to get closer to them.

Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if he was missed in the initial search area either. That seems to happen quite a bit and he'd be a pretty small target.

Would a 2.5 year old keep going in one direction, though? It seems to me like a small child might go one way and then go another (think Family Circus...http://www.camerongott.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/FC-DottedLine.png.... wait, does that date me?) so that he could actually travel several miles but still be within the 2.5 mile search radius. I too think it's possible he is there and just hasn't been found yet.

 

[Penelope]

Welcome to my world! Yes, if something more sinister did not happen, I think he'll be found MILES from the campground, and it would not surprise me if it is higher in elevation. If you haven't had one of these little guys in your care for a while, it's hard to believe how much energy they have.

I agree with you for two reasons.

1. Not to rehash the whole Missing 411/David Paulides debate, but based on his evaluation of missing children/persons cases in North America's National Parks or wilderness areas, if Deorr is not found in the creek or the lake, he will be found miles away in a higher elevation.

2. Another sleuther (I don't remember the name and cannot find the posting) had posted something about how, based on her observations with her own children, it is easier for a toddler/young child to climb UP and NOT down a slope.

OMG - BlkMtnGirl - you are the one who posted about your child (LOL!) - "Because my baby the same age can run/crawl/climb up much easier than down. Going downhill is slower and he falls a lot more going downhill." I REST MY CASE

 

[BlkMtnGirl]

I agree with you for two reasons.

1. Not to rehash the whole Missing 411/David Paulides debate, but based on his evaluation of missing children/persons cases in North America's National Parks or wilderness areas, if Deorr is not found in the creek or the lake, he will be found miles away in a higher elevation.

2. Another sleuther (I don't remember the name and cannot find the posting) had posted something about how, based on her observations with her own children, it is easier for a toddler/young child to climb UP and NOT down a slope.

OMG - BlkMtnGirl - you are the one who posted about your child (LOL!) - "Because my baby the same age can run/crawl/climb up much easier than down. Going downhill is slower and he falls a lot more going downhill." I REST MY CASE

Yes, I wish the Paulides' observations wouldn't necessarily make people think of Sasquatch or aliens or time travel. And, you might be thinking of my own post, although I vaguely remember someone else saying the same thing.

 

[ILOKAL]

I don't know a whole lot about search and rescue, etc. but I don't understand why the searching was brought to a stop in the first place (didn't LE say the investigation was moving in a different direction?) and why it now has to be funded by outside sources? Does the FBI do any searches of their own??? Can they call in a search team if they get a "tip" or find new information? Is there not any organization, government or non-profit or private, that at this point will come in and search without expecting money? Has the sheriff indicated that searching for DeOrr in the campsite and surrounding area is not worth spending any more government resources or something like that? Does he expect Deorr to be found in a different area? I have seen missing person cases where the general public performs searches, airplane pilots volunteer their time, etc. and this goes on for weeks. I guess I don't understand the lack of searching from such an early time in this case. I feel like we are missing something. I also can't think that the sheriff would endorse raising money for a search if he thinks that the FBI report is going to reveal that something entirely different happened to Deorr - why let everyone donate money only to have it be refunded? It is interesting that he wants the search efforts to wait until after the FBI releases their findings, though (although I doubt those findings will be made public unless there is an immediate arrest). I guess I have a lot of questions.... I need to quit thinking about this case all the time. I just wish they would find little DeOrr and/or get a break in the case - just something...

I don't know, but MAYBE, just MAYBE the sheriff wants to wait for the FBI report because he believes it will lean in one direction and that's where funding and efforts should be spent whether or not the source of funding is government or private. Since he believes (for the most part) that little Deorr wasn't abducted, I would imagine he "expects" the FBI to concur when their investigation is complete. Maybe that's why he has pre-authorized the search because he believes the report will state little Deorr is still up there. Just my thoughts on a possibility.

 

[giagreen]

Why "higher in elevation"????

Because toddlers love to climb. I think people underestimate a two year old. My son who just turned two would rather climb then anything. I never understood why him being up higher was so discredited. Toddlers can climb and they can climb good.

 

[ILOKAL]

Would a 2.5 year old keep going in one direction, though? It seems to me like a small child might go one way and then go another (think Family Circus...http://www.camerongott.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/FC-DottedLine.png.... wait, does that date me?) so that he could actually travel several miles but still be within the 2.5 mile search radius. I too think it's possible he is there and just hasn't been found yet.

My littlest grandson just turned two the last day of July. He spends 2-3 full days a week with us. His dad is often here as well. He's fast and full of energy and is smart as a whip. He is as curious as all get out. He's quite independent when in familiar surroundings. It's hard for me to look at Fisher without thinking about little Deorr . But, having said all that, I don't believe for a moment Fisher would enter a close knit forestry area deliberately. Although he would wander some, it wouldn't take him long to begin looking for Daddy or us. And that's what scares me. I just have a hard time visualizing little Deorr strolling (toddling) through the forest. Does that mean it's more likely he stayed in the clearing and walked to the reservoir? Or, like I've said before, something may have leaped out of the forest and snatched him from the clearing. I'm not sure which one is most likely, except the sheriff is so confident the waters were searched well enough to have found him if he were there. JMO

 

[Ziggie88]

I agree with you for two reasons.

1. Not to rehash the whole Missing 411/David Paulides debate, but based on his evaluation of missing children/persons cases in North America's National Parks or wilderness areas, if Deorr is not found in the creek or the lake, he will be found miles away in a higher elevation.

2. Another sleuther (I don't remember the name and cannot find the posting) had posted something about how, based on her observations with her own children, it is easier for a toddler/young child to climb UP and NOT down a slope.

OMG - BlkMtnGirl - you are the one who posted about your child (LOL!) - "Because my baby the same age can run/crawl/climb up much easier than down. Going downhill is slower and he falls a lot more going downhill." I REST MY CASE

Totally agree with your first point. Very sad but I fear this will be the outcome.
Reminds me of the Jaryd Atadero case.

 

[Hoosier952]

Would a 2.5 year old keep going in one direction, though? It seems to me like a small child might go one way and then go another (think Family Circus...http://www.camerongott.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/FC-DottedLine.png.... wait, does that date me?) so that he could actually travel several miles but still be within the 2.5 mile search radius. I too think it's possible he is there and just hasn't been found yet.

Probably not in one direction the entire time, but even a significant amount of time toddling away could put him over 2.5 miles I would think. It would be interesting to put a bunch of GPS bracelets on toddlers and follow them around for a day and then track how far they went and the paths they took. I suspect there would be circles and zigzags all over the place. Even now that my kids are older, we still do a lot of zigzagging off the beaten paths to "oh look at the butterfly", "there's a pretty flower", "look at the mushroom on the tree", "there's a chipmunk".

I hope Family Circus doesn't date you. I spent my youth reading it and then pushed Silly Putty on it so the picture would be on the putty. Around that time, I also had a family of Sea Monkeys. I bought a Sea Monkey aquarium this Saturday so I could relive a part of my childhood again

 

[bodester413]

This is so sad. Every time I read about this I think of Deorr wearing those overs sized cowboy boots. A 2 year old stumbling along would look like an injured animal to a mountain lion.

 

[neesaki]

I am sure you have a great plan. If and when LE and the family decides abduction is the key missing element in this search I believe many people will help with posters including myself. That seems to be the key missing element... imo.

I don't really believe LE is looking for an abductor, or an abducted little Deorr. They've stated they don't believe it's an abduction, and for some reason I think they may have ruled it out entirely. Which leads me to believe they must have some kind of information that has led them to this conclusion. Also, that they brought in the FBI who also haven't bothered to list him as missing.

https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap

 

[neesaki]

Why "higher in elevation"????

According to the research done by David Paulides, and he's done more than his share, children who go missing are often found at a higher elevation, and also are often found several miles further than thought possible for them to travel by foot. Sorry, I don't have a link, just have been reading his books.
Oh wait, there is a thread here with some discussion on the subject:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...issing-411-People-Vanishing-in-National-Parks

Wasn't the search area for little Deorr only three miles or so ? If I'm wrong on that, and I hope I am, would someone please correct me ? TIA

 

[TeaTime]

As you all know, I am a firm believer in the abduction theory. However, keeping that in mind, has anyone dug up the used campfires at the camp grounds?

Seems to me if Sheriff thought there was a chance that he child wandered away, he would let searchers go at it beyond the 2.5-3.0 mile radius already searched. He is trying to preserve the search area but beyond it, why not have searchers?

Why wait until the first week of October? The bears are loading on the calories for their winter nap and are in eating mode. They will eat anything and if it is dead, all the better as they do not expend any energy on it.

When does it start knowing up there? Once that happens, there will be no more searches until it all melts! Why is there no urgency to search more/again?

I can not imagine going through the winter thinking my toddler is out there dead and frozen in the snow. I would lose my mind.

The hunters will not want to be anywhere near an active search, it will be known by them where the searches are and they just will not hunt there. The activity and smells will scare off all the animals and they do not want to be in striking distance of people. And, it would be foolish for searchers or anyone else to go into the rough, at anytime, ever, without wearing a bright orange vest.

This makes me want to haul my 4 wheelers up there to Idaho and take a dang look myself.

BTW while searchers may miss things, one would notice the flies buzzing around the body. Seems the little blue ones show up first down here, and within minutes if not seconds. Not that I have ever dumped a body just observations from the woods and while hunting.

 

[desert-blue]

As you all know, I am a firm believer in the abduction theory. However, keeping that in mind, has anyone dug up the used campfires at the camp grounds?

Seems to me if Sheriff thought there was a chance that he child wandered away, he would let searchers go at it beyond the 2.5-3.0 mile radius already searched. He is trying to preserve the search area but beyond it, why not have searchers?

Why wait until the first week of October? The bears are loading on the calories for their winter nap and are in eating mode. They will eat anything and if it is dead, all the better as they do not expend any energy on it.

When does it start knowing up there? Once that happens, there will be no more searches until it all melts! Why is there no urgency to search more/again?

I can not imagine going through the winter thinking my toddler is out there dead and frozen in the snow. I would lose my mind.

The hunters will not want to be anywhere near an active search, it will be known by them where the searches are and they just will not hunt there. The activity and smells will scare off all the animals and they do not want to be in striking distance of people. And, it would be foolish for searchers or anyone else to go into the rough, at anytime, ever, without wearing a bright orange vest.

This makes me want to haul my 4 wheelers up there to Idaho and take a dang look myself.

BTW while searchers may miss things, one would notice the flies buzzing around the body. Seems the little blue ones show up first down here, and within minutes if not seconds. Not that I have ever dumped a body just observations from the woods and while hunting.

BBM: I find the lack of searching and urgency to be puzzling as well.

I am guessing it will start snowing in early November, maybe even late October. The elevation at the campground is 7600'.

 

[Cardinal47]

Does anybody happen to know if the two camping areas have remained open to campers?

 

[Suthrnqt]

Does anybody happen to know if the two camping areas have remained open to campers?

I'm sure the areas have remained opened. You know there's cremains needing to be dumped.
:gaah:

 

[Arnie M]

.

For three weeks from July 10 to 31 , crews on foot, horseback and all-terrain vehicles, as well as drones and aircraft using special sensing devices, scoured the areas around the campsite .....

And now somebody is saying there has been a lack of searching ??????????????