ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #10

[neesaki]

Just to refresh my frequently faulty memory:
http://lemhiweb.com/content/search-recap

approximately 150 volunteers on foot and on horseback conducted a thorough three mile grid-search of Timber Creek.

 

[Purplepixii]

.

For three weeks from July 10 to 31 , crews on foot, horseback and all-terrain vehicles, as well as drones and aircraft using special sensing devices, scoured the areas around the campsite .....

And now somebody is saying there has been a lack of searching ??????????????

Yes, there are people saying that there has been a lack of searching in respect to the area searched (and ruled out). Personally I agree with those people for reasons already stated in recent posts.

 

[ILOKAL]

Just to refresh my frequently faulty memory:
http://lemhiweb.com/content/search-recap

Thanks so much for the link neesaki. That meeting with the commissioners was three days after little Deorr disappeared. Although the sheriff states (in his opinion, of course) how thoroughly and completely everything was searched, the actual daylight hours of searching could not have been more than about 30 hrs. At the time of the report. Is that "enough" searching? I really don't know except I think we all know of many cases where searches went on MUCH longer. Having said that, the sheriff reminds those who have disagreed that the area was . . . "Very steep with FAST MOVING WATER". He also mentions that wild animals have not been ruled out as well as a possibility of criminal activity. So it "seems" nothing much has changed since Day 3.

 

[neesaki]

.

For three weeks from July 10 to 31 , crews on foot, horseback and all-terrain vehicles, as well as drones and aircraft using special sensing devices, scoured the areas around the campsite .....

And now somebody is saying there has been a lack of searching ??????????????

It was unclear to me whether the drones were actually used in the search due to the one report that they were only being used to document for evidence in case of a trial. http://www.localnews8.com/news/new-details-on-search-for-deorr-kunz-jr/34281340

Yet on the Sheriff's FB page the Idaho Falls Sheriff's Dept. state the drones were used to search the areas that weren't accessible by foot.

Yet in the Dennis Martin case there were up to 1400 searchers including 60 Green Berets.... sometimes they just can't be found . Then there are times that maybe they're just not there.

https://www.facebook.com/twinfallssheriff

The Twin Falls County Sheriff's Office is assisting with our high tech drone technology as there is difficult terrain in this area that is virtually impossible to access by foot.

To rule out any possibility, and so that we can affirmatively say that the entire area was searched and not just a portion.

 

[neesaki]

I guess I'm just finding the need to go back and review things. The Lemhi County Sheriff stated the drones were not being used to search, but the Twin Falls Sheriff's office that did the drone search stated on FB that they did search with apparently one drone, as in singular. I don't know why they would bother to bring it up there if they weren't going to search. But then I'm not sure I know what to think anymore. I'm just going to :banghead:
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/lemhi-sheriff-on-deorr-kunz-we-do-not-suspect-foul-play/

“They are just photographing the area in case this should ever turn into a criminal investigation,” Bowerman said. “They are not looking for anything in particular, just a photo of the area in general.”

http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...earch-hits-two-weeks-still-no-trace/30624055/

This week, Twin Falls County brought a drone up to take pictures of the area. Sheriff Bowerman says that's to cover all of their bases in case this does turn into a criminal investigation, even though right now that is not the case.

 

[desert-blue]

Has there been any searching at all since July 31st? It's now September 3rd. If the sheriff and the parents think the child is up there somewhere, I don't understand their attitude of waiting and hoping hunters stumble across his remains. I can't tell what they really think but their actions don't seem to indicate that they think DeOrr is up there, which is what I find confusing. Complete strangers are trying to organize searches. It's weird. MOO.

 

[neesaki]

Has there been any searching at all since July 31st? It's now September 3rd. If the sheriff and the parents think the child is up there somewhere, I don't understand their attitude of waiting and hoping hunters stumble across his remains. I can't tell what they really think but their actions don't seem to indicate that they think DeOrr is up there, which is what I find confusing. Complete strangers are trying to organize searches. It's weird. MOO.

Yep, I think they think he's not up there, so he didn't wander and get lost; and they think he wasn't abducted. I still think he could be up there , but in a different area outside of where they searched. It happens all the time.

 

[iamnotagolem]

BBM: I find the lack of searching and urgency to be puzzling as well.

I am guessing it will start snowing in early November, maybe even late October. The elevation at the campground is 7600'.

We aren't in ID but not that far away and last year our first snow at 4500 ft was 9/11. There was snow 2 weeks ago in several areas near by at higher altitudes so I would bet at 7600' they will see snow throughout October.

 

[iamnotagolem]

So we have 3 missing LDS or FLDS boys within 6 weeks of each other while camping, one found deceased, one found alive, one not found at all (Deorr). It's been assumed that they wandered away. After coming across this article http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/jun/14/usa.julianborger

I wonder if in fact these boys are being discarded, if the parents are being instructed to plan a family camping trip with friends/family then dump the kids miles from the campsite knowing the kids won't make it back. This would be heart breaking as a parent, the boy that survived had been trained by his dad only a week prior on survival skills, so was he preparing him? If they are found are they allowed to keep them?

What if Deorr's parents did arrange for someone to take Deorr in order to keep him alive because that'd be a better alternative than leaving him wandering in the wilderness until he died?

This obviously is total speculation and probably not likely. But I can't think of any other scenario that leaves Deorr alive/safe after being missing for nearly 8 weeks.

 

[Penelope]

Has there been any searching at all since July 31st? It's now September 3rd. If the sheriff and the parents think the child is up there somewhere, I don't understand their attitude of waiting and hoping hunters stumble across his remains. I can't tell what they really think but their actions don't seem to indicate that they think DeOrr is up there, which is what I find confusing. Complete strangers are trying to organize searches. It's weird. MOO.

I know of someone I met via Facebook (he lives in Idaho and is a former serviceman who has been a part of these types of searches before) who is also trying to organize a search in September. He has met with the Sheriff and Deorr's family and has been to the site where Deorr disappeared. This guy has followed David Paulides' work and has also tried to track Sasquatch. He told me that he had an encounter with a Sasquatch a number of years ago. He said if they have not found Deorr by the middle of September, he is going to search for him.

 

[ClaireNC]

.

For three weeks from July 10 to 31 , crews on foot, horseback and all-terrain vehicles, as well as drones and aircraft using special sensing devices, scoured the areas around the campsite .....

And now somebody is saying there has been a lack of searching ??????????????

Where are you seeing that the search lasted a full three weeks? From everything I have read, it seems like the bulk of the search happened the first 10 or 11 days from July 10 to July 21. ""We've literally torn that country apart and found absolutely not one clue." - Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman, Lemhi County sheriff's officials said via their Facebook page, "After 10 days of searching, diving, and scouring the hillsides, the Sheriff's Office has decided to redirect the investigation." https://www.facebook.com/LemhiCountySheriffsOffice?fref=nf At that time the sheriff was quoted in the media as saying they would have somebody up there checking on the area occasionally, but they were not searching full time.

On July 22 Twin Falls sent 4 officers, two drones, a Razor, and two 4-wheelers to use in the search. They searched and documented the area for two days. It is all in the post on their FB page, you have to read the comments to see that they only searched two days. https://www.facebook.com/twinfallssheriff

The heat-seeking aircraft were only used the first one or two days.

Please explain where you are getting your information from...

 

[ClaireNC]

So we have 3 missing LDS or FLDS boys within 6 weeks of each other while camping, one found deceased, one found alive, one not found at all (Deorr). It's been assumed that they wandered away. After coming across this article http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/jun/14/usa.julianborger

I wonder if in fact these boys are being discarded, if the parents are being instructed to plan a family camping trip with friends/family then dump the kids miles from the campsite knowing the kids won't make it back. This would be heart breaking as a parent, the boy that survived had been trained by his dad only a week prior on survival skills, so was he preparing him? If they are found are they allowed to keep them?

What if Deorr's parents did arrange for someone to take Deorr in order to keep him alive because that'd be a better alternative than leaving him wandering in the wilderness until he died?

This obviously is total speculation and probably not likely. But I can't think of any other scenario that leaves Deorr alive/safe after being missing for nearly 8 weeks.

<modsnip>There is no connection between the FLDS and the LDS churches. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/695271948/LDS-again-stress-the-difference-from-FLDS.html?pg=all

Church officials have emphasized that Latter-day Saints "do not live in isolated compounds, arrange marriages, dress in old-fashioned clothing or wear unusual hairstyles," like FLDS members do.

The LDS Church has more than 13 million members in more than 100 nations worldwide. Its members marry at the average age of 23 and are well-educated, Elder Cook said, noting 60 percent of Latter-day Saints in the United States have some college education &#8212;10 percent higher than the national average.

Here is the wiki on the FLDS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-Day_Saints

The FLDS Church is estimated to have 6,000 to 10,000 members residing in the sister cities of Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, Arizona; Eldorado, Texas; Westcliffe, Colorado;[8] Mancos, Colorado; Creston and Bountiful, British Columbia; and Pringle, South Dakota.[9]

 

[ClaireNC]

For what it's worth...I have donated money to this search. We're not going to find him here on WS or sm. I like the fact that it's been approved by Sheriff Bowerman. I like the fact it is not affiliated with any family members. It's all about finding Deorr. And I'm all in.
I couldn't seem to drum up anyone, I mean zero folks to distribute Deorr's posters nationwide...<modsnip> If this is the only thing I can do to contribute personally towards finding him...I have done so. And I have done so out of love for this little boy, whom I've never met. He needs to be found.

Thanks for your post, BeeFriendly. After doing some research on the two most recent fund raising efforts, I have also come to support them.

 

[renarde]

So we have 3 missing LDS or FLDS boys within 6 weeks of each other while camping, one found deceased, one found alive, one not found at all (Deorr). It's been assumed that they wandered away. After coming across this article http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/jun/14/usa.julianborger

I wonder if in fact these boys are being discarded, if the parents are being instructed to plan a family camping trip with friends/family then dump the kids miles from the campsite knowing the kids won't make it back. This would be heart breaking as a parent, the boy that survived had been trained by his dad only a week prior on survival skills, so was he preparing him? If they are found are they allowed to keep them?

What if Deorr's parents did arrange for someone to take Deorr in order to keep him alive because that'd be a better alternative than leaving him wandering in the wilderness until he died?

This obviously is total speculation and probably not likely. But I can't think of any other scenario that leaves Deorr alive/safe after being missing for nearly 8 weeks.

FLDS and LDS are very different. That article focuses on the FLDS as a sect and how they might expel teen boys and men from their community in order to maintain polygamous marriage numbers. That article is also ten years old. These days, the FLDS leader mentioned as being on the run in the article is now serving time in Texas. I believe it's life in prison for child sexual assault and being an accomplice to rape, amongst other things.

It is extremely doubtful DeOrr comes from a FLDS family. LDS, maybe, but that is definitely not the same.

 

[ILOKAL]

Where are you seeing that the search lasted a full three weeks? From everything I have read, it seems like the bulk of the search happened the first 10 or 11 days from July 10 to July 21. ""We've literally torn that country apart and found absolutely not one clue." - Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman, Lemhi County sheriff's officials said via their Facebook page, "After 10 days of searching, diving, and scouring the hillsides, the Sheriff's Office has decided to redirect the investigation." https://www.facebook.com/LemhiCountySheriffsOffice?fref=nf At that time the sheriff was quoted in the media as saying they would have somebody up there checking on the area occasionally, but they were not searching full time.

On July 22 Twin Falls sent 4 officers, two drones, a Razor, and two 4-wheelers to use in the search. They searched and documented the area for two days. It is all in the post on their FB page, you have to read the comments to see that they only searched two days. https://www.facebook.com/twinfallssheriff

The heat-seeking aircraft were only used the first one or two days.

Please explain where you are getting your information from...

Do you mean those drones that were being discussed a few threads back weren't used until nearly two weeks after little Deorr disappeared? I don't know how useful those searches were. At 12-14 days, what exactly would the drones be looking for based on the rate of decomposition?

 

[Cardinal47]

This is so sad. Every time I read about this I think of Deorr wearing those overs sized cowboy boots. A 2 year old stumbling along would look like an injured animal to a mountain lion.

And when I think of him wearing those boots I always think there would be some clue. A boot or a sock or some kind of clue he was there walking away in those too big boots.

Also I can't see him going the same distance a little guy in socks and good fitting shoes would be able to travel.

This one certainly is a mystery.

Some days I almost think he did disappear in a :ufo:

 

[desert-blue]

I've been reading some older news articles trying to get a feel for when the searching lessened in this case and came across this article from July 16th:
http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/16/search-challenges-sheriff/30259235/
I'm sure I read it before but going back and re-reading articles has been kind of interesting. I see things that I don't think I gave much credence to when I read them the first time. It talks about the searching a little bit but I found the last two paragraphs particularly interesting. I think there is a lot we don't know. MOO.

 

[kammiemc]

I've been reading some older news articles trying to get a feel for when the searching lessened in this case and came across this article from July 16th:
http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/16/search-challenges-sheriff/30259235/
I'm sure I read it before but going back and re-reading articles has been kind of interesting. I see things that I don't think I gave much credence to when I read them the first time. It talks about the searching a little bit but I found the last two paragraphs particularly interesting. I think there is a lot we don't know. MOO.

Yeah, it seems like the sheriff chooses his words carefully and uses soft language purposefully to not give away too much of what he knows. I know some people ale fun of his uh's, etc. But I get the impression he is just trying to be cautious in his language. I guess that is probably exactly what they are doing right now with the FBI--turning over every stone to eliminate as many possibilities as they can as to why a child might go missing. And that's also my guess as to why everyone is silent.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Some days I almost think he did disappear in a :ufo:

Me too!

 

[ILOKAL]

Yeah, it seems like the sheriff chooses his words carefully and uses soft language purposefully to not give away too much of what he knows. I know some people ale fun of his uh's, etc. But I get the impression he is just trying to be cautious in his language. I guess that is probably exactly what they are doing right now with the FBI--turning over every stone to eliminate as many possibilities as they can as to why a child might go missing. And that's also my guess as to why everyone is silent.

That article is not by Sheriff Bowermann.