ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #14

[Angiebla]

Are you talking about the video Nate did about having another baby?

Yeah, I didn't understand why there was an issue with it.

 

[kammiemc]

Wondering about the "Cease and Desist" orders. In the Kyron Horman case, the FB pages against the defacto suspect were rabid and rampant. Sometimes a page would go down, but that was because FB would take it down because they broke the rules. Then after a while they would reappear. I never heard of any cease and desist orders. But then it's a different situation, so I don't know.

I know this is obvious, but just because someone orders a cease and desist order doesn't mean anything. It's basically just a threat. And if it is not ordered by a corp with giant funds behind it, it's hardly threatening. But it could be enough to scare the people on SM to close shop. <modsnip>

Added: I mean the self-appointed leaders of the multiple rival FB pages on this case--not the actual leaders of FB (like Mark Z and Sheryl S!)


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[Yvettea]

U

It's so frustrating to have so little information. Why did they not secure the site first of all. They don't know who was in and out of there as shown by the fact that someone put c remains in the lake, people camping near the reservoir disappeared before being interviewed. It seems like they just went in thinking the child wandered away, then realized later that a crime could have been committed, like the Ramsey case. That possibly ruined any evidence that could have been there before everyone started walking all over the place. I believe it was a crime scene, not that I am saying it was the parents. But the "friend" of grandpa is not a victim, so could he be discussed the same as the RSO that also has no evidence against him? I also think the EMT bag is involved, if it is true it was stolen. The sheriff was waiting for behavioral analysis which is a way of ruling out all POI's, and there has been no further comment, and if I'm not mistaken, the search was downgraded about that time. I did read about a 5 yr. old that wandered away from his camp, and they found him over 3 miles away and he died of hypothermia. I think it was in Arizona recently, but I can't find the link now. I do think the interviews by the parents were odd, but the friend that was there didn't give interview at all the first day, did he? He acted odd too. So of course there is suspicion, all possibilities have to be checked out, and with no other leads, with the only info released about what the POI'S said being confusing, I am not surprised the public is suspicious. I pray every day for little Deorr and his family, and I hope that law enforcement has some clue as to what happened. Sorry for the long post, I just needed to vent some frustration! This is all just my opinion. Can someone tell me who SM is?

The 5 year old who was lost in Utah and died from hypothermia:

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/breaking/2015/10/22/autopsy-colorado-city-boy-missing-5-days-while-camping-died-hypothermia/74364222/

 

[eileenhawkeye]

If the Kunz family were to file a lawsuit against anyone for libel, the defendants would be able to cross-examine them in court. I believe that you are not allowed to plead the 5th in civil court. <modsnip>

 

[Deleted member 718]

I believe that as long as we continue to follow the TOS and the ML is a viable cause of DeOrr's disappearance, it really is quite off-putting when posters try to control what is being discussed. It's so very simple. If the topic is one in which you have no interest, just scroll and roll.

Hey, don't worry. I've tossed out a few theories that were quickly poo-pooed. One I still ponder is the rogue hunter. Another is a far fetched scenario of a planned abduction. <modsnip>

Everything's cool! No need to feel defensive. :loveyou:

 

[Deleted member 718]

I could've sworn that in Tricia's interview, Sheriff Bowerman said Isaac Reinwand had hired an attorney. Now when I check the transcript I don't see it. Anyone else remember this? Maybe it was a different reference. tia

 

[Dee10]

Unless I missed something, this was a from the last press dated Nov. 2nd http://www.idahostatejournal.com/news/local/how-could-a--year-old-vanish-without-a-trace/article_10d44717-75dc-5601-aa30-5726228128f8.html
The Sheriff&#8217;s Office also refused last week to comment to the Journal on whether DeOrr&#8217;s parents were being considered as suspects in the case.'

Even though the press gets things wrong...I do move this up to the top, but that's just me.

ETA - Make link work thanks Libibet

 

[kammiemc]

If the Kunz family were to file a lawsuit against anyone for libel, the defendants would be able to cross-examine them in court. I believe that you are not allowed to plead the 5th in civil court. <modsnip>

It has been a lonnnng time since journalism school for me. I am trying to remember what is needed to prove libel. I "think" (could totally be wrong):

<modsnip>

There might be all new rules for the web that I am unaware of!


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[Lilibet]

Unless I missed something, this was a from the last press dated Nov. 2nd http://www.idahostatejournal.com/ne...le_10d44717-75dc-5601-aa30-5726228128f8.html:

"The Sheriff&#8217;s Office also refused last week to comment to the Journal on whether DeOrr&#8217;s parents were being considered as suspects in th

Here's a working link. The pesky colon at the end of yours messed it up.

http://www.idahostatejournal.com/me...cle_10d44717-75dc-5601-aa30-5726228128f8.html

 

[desert-blue]

I could've sworn that in Tricia's interview, Sheriff Bowerman said Isaac Reinwand had hired an attorney. Now when I check the transcript I don't see it. Anyone else remember this? Maybe it was a different reference. tia

I think it was Mr. Vilt that dropped that comment... I don't have a link, but that is my recollection.

ETA...Link: http://590kid.com/2015/09/18/tips-about-missing-toddler-forwarded-to-idaho-fusion-center/ Part 3, around 2:10 "He has a past criminal record and therefore he did attorney up, he did have an attorney because of his prior record, and didn't want to be accused of something." Mr. Vilt goes on to say he doesn't think either IR or GGP had anything to do with DeOrr's disappearance other than that GGP may have been a little neglectful by "stepping into his camper for a moment and the little boy was outside."

 

[bessie]

As I said, carefully crafted wording.

The truth is that we don't know what the SO was asked, nor the context of the conversation. It's a non-statement and a cheap shot, but obviously an effective one.

 

[desert-blue]

I don't care what he does but if he wishes yo be known as an investigative reporter covering important cases it just seemed inappropriate to be dancing on youtube during a child missing investigation. Moo

to be fair, the baby announcement video was from April of 2014.... (at least I think that's what folks are referring to?)

 

[neesaki]

It's so frustrating to have so little information. Why did they not secure the site first of all. They don't know who was in and out of there as shown by the fact that someone put c remains in the lake, people camping near the reservoir disappeared before being interviewed. It seems like they just went in thinking the child wandered away, then realized later that a crime could have been committed, like the Ramsey case. That possibly ruined any evidence that could have been there before everyone started walking all over the place. I believe it was a crime scene, not that I am saying it was the parents. But the "friend" of grandpa is not a victim, so could he be discussed the same as the RSO that also has no evidence against him? I also think the EMT bag is involved, if it is true it was stolen. The sheriff was waiting for behavioral analysis which is a way of ruling out all POI's, and there has been no further comment, and if I'm not mistaken, the search was downgraded about that time. I did read about a 5 yr. old that wandered away from his camp, and they found him over 3 miles away and he died of hypothermia. I think it was in Arizona recently, but I can't find the link now. I do think the interviews by the parents were odd, but the friend that was there didn't give interview at all the first day, did he? He acted odd too. So of course there is suspicion, all possibilities have to be checked out, and with no other leads, with the only info released about what the POI'S said being confusing, I am not surprised the public is suspicious. I pray every day for little Deorr and his family, and I hope that law enforcement has some clue as to what happened. Sorry for the long post, I just needed to vent some frustration! This is all just my opinion. Can someone tell me who SM is?

Re: bolded - Those are three issues I haven't been able to get past.

-The cremains being dumped at that particular time, bizarre.
-The other group camping down the road that assisted in the search then, in the sheriff's words "disappeared" and they had to track them down.
-A searchers vehicle broken into and an EMT bag stolen during the search.

Add all of those things up and there is something amiss, IMO. I mean this isn't an urban area, this is out in the woods, a primitive campground, and all of this is going on? It will take some doing to convince me that all of this adds up to mere coincidence. JMO

 

[Arnie M]

U

The 5 year old who was lost in Utah and died from hypothermia:

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/breaking/2015/10/22/autopsy-colorado-city-boy-missing-5-days-while-camping-died-hypothermia/74364222/

Thanks. Lots of information which should educate people here on the DeOrr forum

--- 5 year old wandered away from campsite of 20 people @ 1:30 pm Thursday August 6th

--- mother searched for 4 hours and did not call sheriff until 5:30 pm , sheriff said that is normal because most families expect to find the child themselves

--- one report says up to 1000 searchers , another report says 300-400 searchers were still active on the 4th day

--- body of the boy found on the 5th day , August 10th , 3.7 miles from the campsite , died from exposure to cold , likely died the first night.

--- found 15-20 feet from a road , they think he wandered down the road the first day and then went off to the side to sleep

......................

The autopsy did not mention any damage done by wild animals , most likely because wildlife was driven away by the abundance of searchers

Make note that 1000 searchers , ground crews with dogs, military helicopters with night-vision equipment DID NOT find the boy

It was a volunteer who happened to be DRIVING HIS CAR down the road who spotted him .

No wild theories or french fry people with dirty faces were required in the construction of this post.

 

[jnblsm]

I understand what you are saying.
But, one thing to note, as a mama, I don't think it's weird to give a kid fries (I believe they were the heated up Jo Jo's, maybe not recently fried, if the sleuthers here were right about what the Stage Stop serves) at 11 AM or noonish. We like kids to eat, even if it is not cereal at b-fast, sandwich at lunch and chicken dinner at night. I was a on a ferry recently at about that time and I got my son Jo Jo's (they were actually labeled that way!) It was kinda a choice between that or gross looking croissants or a corn dog or popcorn or weird soup.

I would love to understand your last paragraph more if you feel like splainin'.


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When we camp, I'm happy anytime I can get my kids to eat something warm. French fries, imo, are better than a bag of cheetos. Again, that's just me.
But...Are we certain DeOrr even HAD french fries? I don't remember how that even came up. Does anyone have a link that proves the parents gave him fries? I mean fries, specifically. Did that just come up to prove he was actually at the Stage Shop? I can't find a link.

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[ILOKAL]

It has been a lonnnng time since journalism school for me. I am trying to remember what is needed to prove libel. I "think" (could totally be wrong):
<modsnip>
There might be all new rules for the web that I am unaware of!


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Here is an overview for defending against defamation from Findlaw. I doubt any of what what has been published on FB and other SM is defensible. Do these people even realize the damage they have caused to the reputations of the family, not to mention the pain and suffering they have caused?

http://injury.findlaw.com/torts-and-personal-injuries/defenses-to-libel-and-slander.html

 

[Lilibet]

I followed this case and I learned two main things. 1) A child can travel further than we think they can. IIRC Jerold likely walked about eight miles on roads. He was found 3.7 miles away from the campsite as the crow flies. 2) Finding a lost child in time may not happen, despite a large search effort, dogs and helicopters.

I suspect that DeOrr may have followed the road for a time before veering off to rest, just as Jerold did. He had at least an hour before his Dad drove out to call 9-11 I think. JMO

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...illiams-5-campsite-near-Jacob-Lake-6-Aug-2015

BBM

Thanks. Lots of information which should educate people here on the DeOrr forum

--- 5 year old wandered away from campsite of 20 people @ 1:30 pm Thursday August 6th

--- mother searched for 4 hours and did not call sheriff until 5:30 pm , sheriff said that is normal because most families expect to find the child themselves

--- one report says up to 1000 searchers , another report says 300-400 searchers were still active on the 4th day

--- body of the boy found on the 5th day , August 10th , 3.7 miles from the campsite , died from exposure to cold , likely died the first night.

--- found 15-20 feet from a road , they think he wandered down the road the first day and then went off to the side to sleep

......................

The autopsy did not mention any damage done by wild animals , most likely because wildlife was driven away by the abundance of searchers

Make note that 1000 searchers , ground crews with dogs, military helicopters with night-vision equipment DID NOT find the boy

It was a volunteer who happened to be DRIVING HIS CAR down the road who spotted him .

No wild theories or french fry people with dirty faces were required in the construction of this post.

 

[Rayemonde]

As I said, carefully crafted wording.

The truth is that we don't know what the SO's was asked, nor the context of the conversation. It's a non-statement and a cheap shot, but obviously an effective one.

So you think that the sheriff's office didn't really refuse to comment about whether the parents were suspects? Like... Maybe the journalist just asked generally "Are there any suspects?" and the sheriff's office said they would not comment on that? I'm trying to think what the conversation really could have been for the journalist to twist it and make it sound so bad. And I don't think that the press have been sensationalist or accusatory towards the parents until that article - well, except for the coveralls and axe mention. Apart from that I have only seen the Msm present the parents as victims.

 

[ILOKAL]

Mountain lions do not eat clothing. Or they would atleast regurgitate any clothing items.

Cadaver dogs would have found something by now i think.

Here's an excellent source. As you will see on the first couple of pages, victims' clothing has been found inside the cougar at necropsy.

https://books.google.com/books?id=T...=clothing found mountain lion necropsy&f=true

This book lists case after case, attack after attack, of victims (mostly children). Not cases I have previously read. Most were camping very much like DeOrr and his family. Why, there's even an attack of a child at a campsite that sounds quite similar . . . . An upper and lower campground and a reservoir.

I think it's time for those who state lions are afraid of humans to realize that although they are reclusive, they do not fear humans. Also, some have said it's unlikely a lion would go near a campground. This kind of disproves that thought. And for those who have said someone would have seen a lion, they now know how unlikely that would have been. Anyone interested in this case should read all the available pages. A real eye opener.

When dogs were used to track the lions so they could be euthanized, it was always with lion dogs.

 

[kammiemc]

For what it's worth, here's a link on libel. I was recalling incorrectly that something has to be widely disseminated to be considered libel. In fact, only one person has to see the false statement. Sorry bout that.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Libel+and+Slander


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