ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #16

[ILOKAL]

Except is was LE that said is was previously withheld.

And Klein also used that term.

 

[giagreen]

Midge Montana:

SB originally stated that the family was 'solid' and IR was cooperating. If he has changed his mind, he has not let on.

Klein was hired by the family. Exactly which family members, we do not know. He states he works for DeOrr and only DeOrr. He talked to the family POI but was not able to talk to IR who was advised, rightly so, to not speak to PI Klein or anyone on his team.

JM never mentioned a black jeep Rubicon, it was a lead from a woman in another city/area that noticed a creepy guy driving a black Rubicon staring at her kids. Some speculated she was responding to JM's statement that there was a creepy guy staring at DeOrr at the Leadore store. Then someone in Leadore was alleged to have spotted a black truck at the store and the stories got all intertwined until they took on a life of their own.

Klein states that there was never a sighting of a Black Rubicon in Leadore. He does not discredit JM as she never mentioned the black truck/suv/Rubicon, except when reporting the story that was circling around that the store clerk saw a filthy bawling baby with a guy driving a black truck.

I do not think anyone is clear as to where the monkey, blanket and cup were physically located after DeOrr's disappearance. The parents mentioned that these things were all left behind, implying that if DeOrr went wandering about, he would take these items with him as he never went anywhere without them. I do not put any stock into the fact that the items were left behind. My nieces and nephews all had favorite things that they wouldn't leave the house without and couldn't sleep without (requiring late night deliveries of things left at Auntie's house) but they didn't carry them everywhere such as into the back yard, the pool, the playground, etc.

The interview with the parents was a few (maybe 3) days after the initial disappearance. Both parents look devastated to me. Both seem on the verge of a breakdown and both are holding back tears. I got no hinkey, red flags at all from this interview.

No matter how horrible a situation we find ourselves in, we can all hold it together for a few minutes and it was my impression that this is what they were doing in order to give the interview to get out the information about the missing baby.

None of us can know the depth of pain another is experiencing or how they will react to unimaginable horror. I think of the many, many funerals I have been too where parents were burying their children and there was only one where the grieving parents were continuously inconsolable and unable to hold themselves up for even a minute. Each was a tragic incident but even then all the parents, except these 2 friends, were able to hold up for periods of time between breakdowns.

I am not a behavior analyst but I just didn't have a bad reaction to the parents' behavior in the interview.

[emoji112] [emoji112] [emoji112] [emoji177] great post...had to thank it twice.

 

[bessie]

I don't understand this one either but, there are lots of folks who jump into a fb discussion about a case and only post hateful and hurtful things for whatever reason and if they came across the name of an anonymous witness, who knows what they would post. I don't think anyone with their right mind would want to subject themselves to fb garbage.

Missing child, DeOrr Kunz, Jr.:

[...]

Facebook and Twitter can be excellent sources of mass information. But pinning down the truth in all that noise can be extremely difficult, especially for law enforcement in an active investigation.

If the facts look solid, a lead that emerges through social media can be appealing. But hours spent verifying, contacting and looking into a lead that came from a social media post rarely concludes with an arrest, authorities said.

Law enforcement has a tenuous relationship with social media. It can help in getting word out about missing teens, or a robbery suspect. But it can also be a mud-slinging arena where accusations fly and progress is hindered.

“Getting people involved to help look, if they’re the right type of people, it’s fantastic,” Bowerman said. “But then there’s people who their whole life is social media, and they’ll twist the things you say. It creates a bigger frenzy than it is; it’s really a struggle.”

[...]
When 2-year-old DeOrr Kunz, went missing in July in the Salmon-Challis National Forest, his office was pushed to the limit. His staff was overwhelmed, partially by their efforts to search, and almost equally by their attempts to quell the social media tips and comments that flooded in.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/0...eighs-benefits-and-drawbacks-of-social-media/

15:54
SB: Well, you know, there’s been all sorts of conversations on both Facebook and Twitter and…and everything else and it’s getting to the point now where it’s getting real confusing. It’s not real constructive, and uh I would like to concentrate on uh facts, help uh us look for um some evidence or some clothing or a valid sighting on some family that has never had a 2 ½ year old and then all of a sudden they have a 2 ½ year old in their …included in their family. Um…but all the negativism and uh all the rumors have been really not very constructive and it really kept my officers so busy chasing uh just uh shadows and uh that’s really complicated the investigation.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot&p=12122056#post12122056

---

Missing child, Noah Chamberlin

[...]

One of the biggest issues they have had to face, law enforcement said, were the many rumors and speculation being shared on social media.

They asked the public to refrain from starting or sharing rumors, as it makes it difficult for law enforcement to do their job.

http://wreg.com/2016/01/19/search-e...in-scaled-back-as-wintry-weather-moves-in/Law enforcement said that rumors have been distracting their search efforts.

“We can stand here and say please don’t start all these rumors. We have to go check into the rumors. The family has been with us the whole time,” Mapes said, at Tuesday’s news conference.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...not-responsible-missing-boy-article-1.2502990[...]

Weaver, along with Madison County Fire Chief Eric Turner, Madison County Sheriff John Mehr, and Edwin Grant, a consultant for the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, led a press conference on Tuesday to discredit rumors surfacing on social media in regards to the search for Noah.

[...]

“It’s a disgrace that some love people to suffer by starting rumors,” Mehr said.

http://www.jacksonsun.com/story/news/2016/01/19/still-search-and-rescue/79018538/

 

[pepelepolecat]

One piece that stuck out to me transcribing was:

Klein: Well, what I have to say to the people out on social media are a few things. #1) Some of the people out there on social media have hindered this case. Uh, witnesses have come forward after and only after they received assurances that their identities would remain anonymous #1, and #2 that their information would remain anonymous. And so, you know, once we were able to give them that assurance, they were scared their names and their information would be splashed up on Facebook, um…and that has happened in some cases uh from leaks from family members to people that have nothing to do with this case that don’t even live in Idaho.

Who would be worried about information being splashed on Facebook if they came forward?

Someone who has had an acrimonious relationship with one of the POIs is one possibility (or, conversely, someone who has a good relationship with them and wants to keep it that way).

But it could just be someone random. The way this case has been treated on social media, I can't imagine anyone who'd want their name connected with it. People have gone to great lengths digging up any and all dirt they can find on the POIs AND their family members AND people who aren't even related but are simply in the same circles. It feels horribly intrusive at times. I think most people would want to retain a sense of privacy, and Facebook does not offer that at all.

 

[pepelepolecat]

"JM never mentioned a black jeep Rubicon, it was a lead from a woman in another city/area that noticed a creepy guy driving a black Rubicon staring at her kids. Some speculated she was responding to JM's statement that there was a creepy guy staring at DeOrr at the Leadore store. Then someone in Leadore was alleged to have spotted a black truck at the store and the stories got all intertwined until they took on a life of their own. " From post 300

According to Vilt though, it was DK who said he remembered seeing an expensive black Rubicon in Leadore after the other sighting was reported. Now Klein is saying there wasn't one. So did DK lie? Did Vilt make it up?

He may be saying that Vilt lied. Vilt was the one who said that DK confirmed the sighting. I don't know that DK ever said that directly to the press or the police.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Thanks, CoverMeCagney! It's sooo helpful to be pointed in the right direction, as to where I can cut some corners. It would take me weeks to go through every post from every thread. I'll take your advice and pass you a hug!

<snipped>

Ha, you're more than welcome! I know what it's like to be faced with several threads to wade through. I'm sure a few bits will pop up that you may have missed but the general gist in this case (up until Klein) has been "we don't know any more than we did on day dot".

Whether or not Klein will crack this remains to be seen, but regardless, his involvement has rejuvenated the case somewhat which can only be a good thing.

Does anyone have a definitive timeline handy to help newmembers to the thread (and remind everyone else!)?

 

[ILOKAL]

One piece that stuck out to me transcribing was:

Klein: Well, what I have to say to the people out on social media are a few things. #1) Some of the people out there on social media have hindered this case. Uh, witnesses have come forward after and only after they received assurances that their identities would remain anonymous #1, and #2 that their information would remain anonymous. And so, you know, once we were able to give them that assurance, they were scared their names and their information would be splashed up on Facebook, um…and that has happened in some cases uh from leaks from family members to people that have nothing to do with this case that don’t even live in Idaho.

Who would be worried about information being splashed on Facebook if they came forward?

Klein makes such a mess of trying to explain something, IMO. Here, is he saying, e.g., that in spite of giving "witnesses" his assurance that they and their "information" would remain anonymous, their names and information got splashed up on FB anyway? If "I" was someone posting on FB who has identified myself to Klein and through his innuendo identified me as the person he is addressing in his "message" (for whatever reason) I can't even BEGIN to imagine what I would do.

 

[Trident]

He may be saying that Vilt lied. Vilt was the one who said that DK confirmed the sighting. I don't know that DK ever said that directly to the press or the police.

I don't know that DK every said much, that we know of after that 1 press conference, directly to the press or the police. If I'm wrong, help me out here.

:cow:

 

[Trident]

Klein makes such a mess of trying to explain something, IMO. Here, is he saying, e.g., that in spite of giving "witnesses" his assurance that they and their "information" would remain anonymous, their names and information got splashed up on FB anyway? If "I" was someone posting on FB who has identified myself to Klein and through his innuendo identified me as the person he is addressing in his "message" (for whatever reason) I can't even BEGIN to imagine what I would do.

Semantics is a wonderful thing, ain't it? You can twist it, turn it, torture it until it says anything you want it to. Same with statistics, LOL.

:cow:

 

[carbuff]

Klein makes such a mess of trying to explain something, IMO. Here, is he saying, e.g., that in spite of giving "witnesses" his assurance that they and their "information" would remain anonymous, their names and information got splashed up on FB anyway? If "I" was someone posting on FB who has identified myself to Klein and through his innuendo identified me as the person he is addressing in his "message" (for whatever reason) I can't even BEGIN to imagine what I would do.

He does not seem very at ease in front of the camera. Also, I think he's straining to make sure he doesn't inadvertently give a clue.

 

[ILOKAL]

I don't know that DK every said much, that we know of after that 1 press conference, directly to the press or the police. If I'm wrong, help me out here.

:cow:

I "think" we know DK and JM were interviewed by LE, and SB has always said how cooperative they were and that they have given LE everything they've asked for. As far as "interviews" there was also the one in the Fall, around Halloween, when they were doing a search and I'm thinking there "may" have been another brief one but I'm not sure on that.

 

[ILOKAL]

Semantics is a wonderful thing, ain't it? You can twist it, turn it, torture it until it says anything you want it to. Same with statistics, LOL.

:cow:

Isn't THAT the truth, LOL!

 

[Trident]

I "think" we know DK and JM were interviewed by LE, and SB has always said how cooperative they were and that they have given LE everything they've asked for. As far as "interviews" there was also the one in the Fall, around Halloween, when they were doing a search and I'm thinking there "may" have been another brief one but I'm not sure on that.

Yes, thanks, I did see the one in the fall when the family was "searching". Aside from that, I only have SB's word on how cooperative they were, and God knows what that word means to him. Semantics once again.

As far as I'm concerned, this whole case and everything (every tiny, grudging, sometimes incorrect bit) we've been given by LE and MSM is falling apart as fast as the house of the three little piggies. Maybe Klein is the big bad wolf?

:cow:

 

[ILOKAL]

He does not seem very at ease in front of the camera. Also, I think he's straining to make sure he doesn't inadvertently give a clue.

Well, that's the thing. Yet, when you see him on video he seems relaxed and confident, IMO. It makes me wonder if his hesitations are because he's being a bit "creative".

 

[Dee10]

I think LE is at least somewhat on the same page as KI. If you remember shortly after Vilt hit the press, LE came out I believe twice and they haven't with KI (yet anyway).

 

[ILOKAL]

Yes, thanks, I did see the one in the fall when the family was "searching". Aside from that, I only have SB's word on how cooperative they were, and God knows what that word means to him. Semantics once again.

As far as I'm concerned, this whole case and everything (every tiny, grudging, sometimes incorrect bit) we've been given by LE and MSM is falling apart as fast as the house of the three little piggies. Maybe Klein is the big bad wolf?

:cow:

More like the wolf in Little Red Riding Hood, IMO!

 

[carbuff]

Well, that's the thing. Yet, when you see him on video he seems relaxed and confident, IMO. It makes me wonder if his hesitations are because he's being a bit "creative".

I guess if he's trying not to reveal any real details, that would require a great deal of creativity.

 

[ILOKAL]

I guess if he's trying not to reveal any real details, that would require a great deal of creativity.

Except I don't believe he HAS any great details. It's not like he's been chomping at the bit to SAY something. That's all he and others from his firm have been doing. Talk, talk, talk and more talk that ends up being completely meaningless, IMO. At BEST, he's been duped by someone on SM and that's why he suggested the consequences of lying to a federal grand jury, IMO.

 

[desert-blue]

I've been thinking about Klein's comment that DeOrr was out of the parents' sight for "17 minutes as has been already given to the media." I don't recall ever hearing or reading it was 17 minutes, but maybe I missed something. Does anyone know where that information came from?

 

[audsmommy]

Just got a breaking news alert from KTVB that the parents are now suspects.

Finally .....