ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #2

[SleuthMom]

I can also understand why the friend of the great-grandfather is very silent and he is not speaking to the media. No one wants their name on national and international media attached to a missing child's case even if you have nothing to do with the disappearance.

 

[SleuthMom]

I'm seeing a pattern here that I don't quite understand. It seems that MANY parents of missing children; Dennis Martin; Jared Atadero; Diane Prevost; DeOrr Kunz; and probably a host of others, believe their children were abducted.

What I'm trying to say/ask, is this a survival mechanism the parents put into action, or a real belief? If it is a real belief, what is the basis for it?

The number one reason is that you want to believe your child is ALIVE and when there is no proof that he/she got hurt or killed the only other explanation is that your child was kidnapped.

Second, the police many times are the ones who advise parents to state that they believe their child was kidnapped so that the criminal/s involved can know that the police are still searching for the child, if they state that they believe the child is dead the criminals can now feel free to do whatever else they want with the child knowing that nobody is looking for him/her. I mentioned earlier in the thread that it is also a way to communicate with the child in case he/she has access to a radio or TV and can know that the parents and the police are still looking for them and they can find strength to continue "surviving" until someone can rescue them.

 

[Trident]

All we have been told is that the dogs were led in the wrong direction by cremains that were dumped during the search.
As far as little Deorr having become stuck in any hole including a mine vent, wouldn't the dogs have followed that scent while working the woods?
According to LE several types of specialized dogs were used. Helicopters using FLIR and many other search techniques were used. To the point the sheriff no longer believes the child is there. He said they tore that country up.
I hope you guys are right in many ways, but I want to keep the hope that Deorr is still alive, however slim.
If he's stuck in a hole, under a rock, etc. then he is surely deceased.
jmho

We've had a discussion on the pros and cons of search/cadaver/cremains/whatever dogs before. There are so many cases where they do no good, and some where they actually help. But, even though I've been shown cases where dogs do what they are trained for, there are other cases which make me wonder if they are worth the dog food - take a good look at the two escapees from Dannemora not long ago. These two were running through the woods the whole time, and the dogs never did find a good trail or do any good at all. Both of them were taken/killed mainly by luck/accident. It seems to me dogs are not all they're cracked up to me unless sicced on a fleeing suspect and holding him down.

I don't want to be down on dogs, love 'em to death, but seriously wondering if we don't put too much credence in them or their handlers. Ah, yes, handlers. Often I've seen handlers pulling their dogs away from something they seemed very keen on. Wazzup with that, I've often wondered. In summation, I'm still wondering if dogs are much help at all, there seem to be sooooo many factors that can throw them off. Maybe we should have stuck to blood hounds - in the movies they always caught their man.

Opinion only

 

[catswhiskers]

I'm seeing a pattern here that I don't quite understand. It seems that MANY parents of missing children; Dennis Martin; Jared Atadero; Diane Prevost; DeOrr Kunz; and probably a host of others, believe their children were abducted.

What I'm trying to say/ask, is this a survival mechanism the parents put into action, or a real belief? If it is a real belief, what is the basis for it?

I just read up about Diane Prevost - how sad, and such a long time ago for her poor family. I'm thinking that when children have disappeared in such a brief window of time, and without any trace or sound at all - it must seem like the only possibility to parents. A lurking stranger, whisking a child away in silence, so cleverly and without leaving a clue. I can't imagine any parent wants to imagine that a wild animal is responsible - the terrifying images that would conjure up would surely be just too much, on top of the guilt they would already be feeling for looking away for a few minutes too long.

 

[Trident]

I just read up about Diane Prevost - how sad, and such a long time ago for her poor family. I'm thinking that when children have disappeared in such a brief window of time, and without any trace or sound at all - it must seem like the only possibility to parents. A lurking stranger, whisking a child away in silence, so cleverly and without leaving a clue. I can't imagine any parent wants to imagine that a wild animal is responsible - the terrifying images that would conjure up would surely be just too much, on top of the guilt they would already be feeling for looking away for a few minutes too long.

Actually, and I'm not making light of the situation, a wild animal would be far more merciful than a human predator. Too many people have no idea what wild animals are like, in my opinion.

 

[catswhiskers]

I can also understand why the friend of the great-grandfather is very silent and he is not speaking to the media. No one wants their name on national and international media attached to a missing child's case even if you have nothing to do with the disappearance.

I don't feel it's important for the public to know all the details about this person, or hear from great grandpa for that matter, as I figure there must be a reason why LE seem to have so deliberately not mentioned them or their versions of events. But I am surprised that MSM or local chattery types haven't somehow gotten wind of some info about them and mentioned it in stories or on social media. It seems strange that they have been able to be kept so completely out of the public eye (from what I can tell at least). Whoever is guarding their privacy is doing an awesome job.

 

[ninij9]

Can everybody please sort these possible scenarios from Most Likely to Least Likely, according to what they believe?

I think:

1. Fell and drowned in the water (creek or reservoir)
2. Wandered off and got taken by a large animal (bear, lion, wolf)
3. Wandered off and succumbed to the elements
4. Wandered off and fell into a mineshaft or some kind of hole
5. Stranger abduction
6. any other scenario


So how would you sort them?

I would reverse #2 and 3. But I agree with the order otherwise.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[Donjeta]

I'm seeing a pattern here that I don't quite understand. It seems that MANY parents of missing children; Dennis Martin; Jared Atadero; Diane Prevost; DeOrr Kunz; and probably a host of others, believe their children were abducted.

What I'm trying to say/ask, is this a survival mechanism the parents put into action, or a real belief? If it is a real belief, what is the basis for it?

I'm not familiar with the other cases you mention but I think often it's simply the best available option that still gives the parents a chance that the child comes home alive and well. A little toddler couldn't swim or survive on his or her own in the wilderness and probably didn't run off to start a new life using a new name. The parents aren't quite ready to accept that the child is likely deceased yet and hang on the faintest hope.

Then again, Jerice Hunter still insists that Jhessye was kidnapped (she was just convicted for murdering her.)

 

[Roselvr]

I agree that someone/s need to watch for signs of decomp, but I would think that wild animals would find it much faster than a human. Especially at night.
Poor Deorr. I don't want to think he is dead.
jmo

That's what I mean; birds/ vultures.

 

[catswhiskers]

Actually, and I'm not making light of the situation, a wild animal would be far more merciful than a human predator. Too many people have no idea what wild animals are like, in my opinion.

Oh - I know what you mean about human predators being worse. I don't want to get graphic either - it's the whole idea of being devoured though

 

[Inthedetails]

We've had a discussion on the pros and cons of search/cadaver/cremains/whatever dogs before. There are so many cases where they do no good, and some where they actually help. But, even though I've been shown cases where dogs do what they are trained for, there are other cases which make me wonder if they are worth the dog food - take a good look at the two escapees from Dannemora not long ago. These two were running through the woods the whole time, and the dogs never did find a good trail or do any good at all. Both of them were taken/killed mainly by luck/accident. It seems to me dogs are not all they're cracked up to me unless sicced on a fleeing suspect and holding him down.

I don't want to be down on dogs, love 'em to death, but seriously wondering if we don't put too much credence in them or their handlers. Ah, yes, handlers. Often I've seen handlers pulling their dogs away from something they seemed very keen on. Wazzup with that, I've often wondered. In summation, I'm still wondering if dogs are much help at all, there seem to be sooooo many factors that can throw them off. Maybe we should have stuck to blood hounds - in the movies they always caught their man.

Opinion only

Regarding the dogs tracking to a mine shaft, they might not be able to track if the boy were transported to one and then deposited far from the campsite. Ykwim?

I'm not convinced at all that the boy was taken to a shaft, but it is a possibility and would explain why the dogs can't track him.

Just thinking aloud.

 

[Hatfield]

I agree...mostly. I don't think they suspect abduction based on recent LE statements. More specifically, they don't seem to suspect an outside, stranger abductor coming to the site and removing the child. I'm still a few pages away from being caught up but I saw a few earlier posts that suggested that the Sheriff ruled out foul play but I don't believe that is accurate. Has anyone actually seen a statement from LE stating that foul play was ruled out? The only statement I've seen (and I may have missed one) states that they don't suspect the parents "at this time." I don't think I'm violating any rules if I point out that LE stated they were "good" with the family. Not everyone at the campsite was "family."


ETA: Well, I skipped to the last page and see that I am not alone with these thoughts. No one has said, "We left him with GGPA and his friend." I feel like it would have been said at some point if both men were there at the time, which leads me to more questions if they weren't.

Re BBM

JMO
I think multiple vehicles were taken to the campsite. At least 2 and maybe even 3. Here is why I think that.

I had mentioned before but I think it is important to emphisize about the vehicles. Here is my conclusion based on seeing the 1 picture of what we think was the black truck.

The black truck looked to me to have a 1/2 extended cab and not a full extended cab. I have a friend that has one and the back seats are NOT really real seats in those 1/2 extended cabs. They are these mini-half seats that pull down sideways and you basically have to sit at an angle to be comfortable.

So with such a long drive to the campsite and with the great grandfather not being too health according to something that was mentioned I think there is no way all 5 people took just the 1 truck.

I think there were at least 2 vehicles and if Great grandpa still drove then maybe the friend even drove his own vehicle to meet everyone there and that would mean there could be 3 vehicles.

The multiple vehicles are important because if the friend took his own vehicle then we do not know anything about the movements of that vehicle right at the time the boy went missing.

For example. Did he volunteer to drive off and go get help right at the time the boy went missing and was his vehicle searched good before he left in case the boy decided to climb in it before he took off.

Or other infinite number of scenerios with another vehicle or even 3 vehicles being there.

 

[bluesneakers]

Can everybody please sort these possible scenarios from Most Likely to Least Likely, according to what they believe?

I think:

1. Fell and drowned in the water (creek or reservoir)
2. Wandered off and got taken by a large animal (bear, lion, wolf)
3. Wandered off and succumbed to the elements
4. Wandered off and fell into a mineshaft or some kind of hole
5. Stranger abduction
6. any other scenario


So how would you sort them?

1. Fell and drowned in the water (creek or reservoir)
2. Wandered off and succumbed to the elements
3. Wandered off and got taken by a large animal (mountain lion or wolf, but not bear)
4. any other scenario - not sure, but maybe
5. Stranger abduction

 

[ninij9]

(stands up, brushes self off)

Woooh, that was a pretty deep rabbit hole. So glad I made it out! Did the rest of you make it out with me?! :facepalm: :gaah:

Lol great post! I stood at the edge but didn't fall in. Glad to have you back! Hope the rest make it out ok. [emoji4]

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[Dee10]

This was an article from a couple days ago re more than one vehicle:

The boy's parents, meanwhile, have volunteered to take polygraph tests after being interviewed and having their vehicles examined by police. The two have said they believe their child was abducted.

http://790talknow.com/foxfeedspro/d...s-scour-wolf-den-reservoir-for-missing-child/

 

[bluesneakers]

I'm not familiar with the other cases you mention but I think often it's simply the best available option that still gives the parents a chance that the child comes home alive and well. A little toddler couldn't swim or survive on his or her own in the wilderness and probably didn't run off to start a new life using a new name. The parents aren't quite ready to accept that the child is likely deceased yet and hang on the faintest hope.

Then again, Jerice Hunter still insists that Jhessye was kidnapped (she was just convicted for murdering her.)

I think it's also a big fear many parents have so when something does happen that's where their mind goes, and then it works because it helps protect them from facing the really awful stuff.

 

[ninij9]

Phew finally caught up with this thread (again!)
I still get ZERO vibe about parents. I agree with LE.
I Hate that we can't get more info on Great Granddad and friend.
I hate they won't give more info on who what when dumped cremains (I am pretty sure dumping them in a reservoir is illegal).
And after all this I still think he fell in creek or is out somewhere in the wilderness.
I hope and pray they find this baby so his parents can know and get some peace if little comfort.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[Roselvr]

I'm still waiting for the explanation that he jumped in his truck to drive where he knew where he could get a signal. Since he stated he HAD NEVER BEEN there, how did he know there was a better signal?? From his initial non-stop talking first interview, things have been very quiet. JMO..that sheriff is either the dumbest man or the smartest man in town. I'm hoping for the latter.

we have no clue what carrier he/they had, also type of cell matters too. I have an older blackberry with Verizon & have issues in parts of my town. I would have done the same thing, driven till I had signal bars on my cell

Phew finally caught up with this thread (again!)
I still get ZERO vibe about parents. I agree with LE.
I Hate that we can't get more info on Great Granddad and friend.
I hate they won't give more info on who what when dumped cremains (I am pretty sure dumping them in a reservoir is illegal).
And after all this I still think he fell in creek or is out somewhere in the wilderness.
I hope and pray they find this baby so his parents can know and get some peace if little comfort.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

not illegal according to a link I found. People do it all the time

 

[Hatfield]

This was an article from a couple days ago re more than one vehicle:



http://790talknow.com/foxfeedspro/d...s-scour-wolf-den-reservoir-for-missing-child/

Thanks. I had not seen that.

Interesting. Maybe they loaned one of their other vehicles to the friend to drive Great Grandpa to the campsite.

During the interview with the parents, I got a sense there was at least 1 other vehicle back at the campsite when the dad took off to call 911.

 

[Penelope]

I'm seeing a pattern here that I don't quite understand. It seems that MANY parents of missing children; Dennis Martin; Jared Atadero; Diane Prevost; DeOrr Kunz; and probably a host of others, believe their children were abducted.

What I'm trying to say/ask, is this a survival mechanism the parents put into action, or a real belief? If it is a real belief, what is the basis for it?

From what I have read, I think the basis of it is this:
- The child/individual disappears very quickly
- After days of searching, using dogs, technology and hundreds of LE and volunteers, neither he now articles of clothing are found in the area
- At this point, parents thoughts go to - "well, if you can't find him here, then he must not be here"
- The next logical progression is - "if he isn't here, then someone took him away… he's been stolen or kidnapped."

IMO it would be very rare that a child would be kidnapped by a person under such a scenario - unless that person just happened to be there at the right time, and statistically the chance of that occurring would be off the charts.

However, I have read that one way to take someone away without anyone finding much or a trail is to walk in a stream - the water and current would obscure any tracks. However, I am not sure if the water would obscure scent. This is a theory of how Sasquatch/Bigfoot can quickly get away - they are large enough to easily walk through such a stream.

I am just relating what I have read; as far as I am concerned, I don't know what to believe, but I am intrigued by these theories. My late husband had seen Sasquatch-type creatures twice while working as a logger and road-builder in Northern Alberta and British Columbia. He had no reason to lie to me about it. He was Woods Cree from Northern Alberta, and his people have seen and accepted the existence of Sasquatch for many centuries.

I am not saying this is what happened to Deorr - but right now, his disappearance fits a pattern of disappearances. This may change if they ultimately find out humans were involved in his disappearance or find his body in the stream or reservoir. Until then, I will believe (1) he drowned in water; (2) fell down a mineshaft/hole; and (3) he fits into those "mysterious" disappearances that could be the result of something unknown taking him. His blonde hair could have been an attraction for something.