ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #2

[ClaireNC]

It has been suggested that the mother of one of the case players might have died 3 weeks ago. IF SO---could that be why great grandfather and family friend came to the national park? Did they come to scatter the ashes? That would be very interesting if it happened that way.

That's very plausible. And maybe the "empty/ EMT" bag was used to transport the cremains; and the mother did not want to talk about that bag, because it would just confuse things?

Great speculation. Both very plausible.

 

[SCHMAE]

Wow, the thread is moving fast. Does that mean there is news? TIA

 

[Fitzrobin]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/2...den-yield-no-clues-in-hunt-for-idaho-toddler/


The paragraph above says it all for me. I don't think the statements the sheriff is making now have a whole lot of substance to them one way or the other. He knows if the parents passed the polygraph or not. He knows that flying a drone out over the woods isn't going to accomplish much.

He's just making a statement because the media is pushing him for one.

He sounds defeated to me...and tired.

I agree. I think they are holding info close to the cuff and waiting for all their conclusive data to be gathered. I don't think Deorr is alive either by accident or the hands of someone there. Time will tell.

 

[jashrema]

Sheriff knows whether or not they passed...he is just not saying. if parents took polys with attys. the attys would tell sheriff , look they passed, move on. OR they would say that the results are confidential and we all know what that means, so does the sheriff. He's running this case and he doesn't know where, when or the results? I call BS on that. If they passed it would immediately be put out to media.
Sheriff is talking out both sides of his mouth...2 days ago he says they have offered to take poly. Now, he says they took it but doesn't know when. What? Wouldn't it have been within the last 2 days since you stated they hadn't, but have offered, and now today you say they took it. Is he no longer communicating with the parents? Have the parents lawyered up?

 

[Mountaingazer]

It was mentioned earlier in the first thread that one of the main search and rescue organizations is snake river search and rescue.

Ahhh! Okay, this makes so much sense![emoji362][emoji362]

 

[iamnotagolem]

This was posted earlier but seems so mind blowing to me.

Cadaver dogs led law enforcement directly to the reservoir but Bowerman said unrelated cremated remains dumped into the water during the search likely prompted the canines' interest. A search of the reservoir using advanced sonar equipment yielded nothing, he said.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/2...den-yield-no-clues-in-hunt-for-idaho-toddler/

 

[jashrema]

Somebody in the know perhaps can answer this as it has been bugging me. Why would cremains make a cadaver dog "hit". Cadaver dogs hit on DECOMPOSING flesh, even just the tiniest bit...Cremains are ashes...there is no decomposition in ashes, the body is not in a state of decomposition, cremains as opposed to decomp are 2 completely different things are they not? I might have to go searching. It bugs me that the sheriff basically says since someone put cremains in...the dogs are hitting on THAT. Are they? Really?

 

[eileenhawkeye]

If you take a poly with a lawyer, can't you just keep taking it until you pass? Or make sure your lawyer asks the right questions? I'm not accusing, just saying that this doesn't seem like the most unbiased way.

 

[white rabbit]

(reminder I can't thank posts)

agree with much of steelman, 4sythia and flourish's thoughts.

my2cents, JMO, and I'm snipping proper grammar for brevity and easier reading:

- he was not abducted. there was no one up there.
- cremains are irrelevant. LE was trying to explain away the dogs' ADD.
- store clerk is an idiot
- polygraphs are most certainly known by the sheriff, it's a bluff to say "no idea the results"
- still not accusing the parents', myself...more curious as to why ggpa and the friend have been silenced.
- animals don't gently steal babies in broad daylight. if they need prey, they attack and don't ask questions nor are careful not to leave behind a boot.

this is the worst possible scenario for any family to take a trip...hot days, cold nights, a baby wrapped almost head to toe in camouflage, elderly folks amongst them, not even enough supplies to last 24 hours, along a moving creek and a reservoir, and all adult eyes are taken off of a child in front of a campfire at naptime.

it's unbelievable. in other words, the rabbit does not believe ANY of the above.

 

[Mickshawn]

~~I don't know "what" these dogs hit on, but I can tell you that the cremains of my last dog (RIP), which I still have, are NOT ashes.....They look like tiny chards of shells and rock...not "ashlike" at all.

~~On another note, "IF" somebody took this babe, I wonder if it was somebody he knows and likes, so readily went with them....The person could have just scooped him up off the ground, maybe offering to go find Mom and Dad or play a game....

Somebody in the know perhaps can answer this as it has been bugging me. Why would cremains make a cadaver dog "hit". Cadaver dogs hit on DECOMPOSING flesh, even just the tiniest bit...Cremains are ashes...there is no decomposition in ashes, the body is not in a state of decomposition, cremains as opposed to decomp are 2 completely different things are they not? I might have to go searching. It bugs me that the sheriff basically says since someone put cremains in...the dogs are hitting on THAT. Are they? Really?

 

[leilarose68]

Well, I hope my original theory was wrong, but...

 

[leilarose68]

So the drones are for gathering information in case it ever goes to trial, not for search and recovery

This isn't looking good for grandpa or his friend, if LE still doesn't consider mom and dad suspects

You can't take what LE says about suspects at face value. Their MO is finding out what happened to Deorr, not informing the public while the investigation is going on.

 

[flourish]

~~I don't know "what" these dogs hit on, but I can tell you that the cremains of my last dog (RIP), which I still have, are NOT ashes.....They look like tiny chards of shells and rock...not "ashlike" at all.

~~On another note, "IF" somebody took this babe, I wonder if it was somebody he knows and likes, so readily went with them....The person could have just scooped him up off the ground, maybe offering to go find Mom and Dad or play a game....

I helped scatter some cremains once (coincidentally in Idaho) years ago. One of the shards scraped me. It was not just ashes.

I still think he went in the water by accident.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[carbuff]

Yeah, it's not ashes. That's why pedants and crematoriums have been pushing the "cremains" term so hard

 

[4senthia]

Ok if LE is just stalling and doesn't really want valid statements out there, wouldn't they want us to know a child has been kidnapped?
Sheriff states there was no abduction. Fini.
Why would he obfuscate on the most crucial basic info? Isn't that why there are Amber Alerts and such?
jmoho

 

[4senthia]

Specially trained cadaver dogs will hit on cremains.
I think cremains are even part of the things that they are trained with.
[Sorry the link is broken]

jmoho

 

[Elainera]

Whatever the chemical signature is, it’s present through the whole process, from fresh corpses in the first few hours after death to skeletons several years old. It’s also present in several types of tissue, including blood, bone, and fat. Properly trained HRD dogs can identify the scent not just in whole bodies, but in blood spatter, bone, and even cremated remains. They can even pick up the scent left behind in the soil after a body has been removed from a grave.

http://gizmodo.com/the-science-behind-dogs-that-detect-dead-bodies-1702605569

bbm

This is why it confused those dogs.

(Very interesting article btw.)

 

[Tallex]

I thought initially the search was not closed and open to locals to help. I thought there was a poster a while back that said their family members helped with the search. I also remember reading that LE closed the search to just professionals (sorry can't remember the exact wording) the dad said in his interview along the lines that there was so many people 175? That you couldn't stand.
Re: wild animals. A lot of you are saying it's unlikely an animal took him in broad daylight. What if Deorr wandered off got stuck somewhere wasn't found by nightfall and then a wild animal found him.

 

[carbuff]

What about if Deorr saw an animal and ran off after the big kitty or the doggie?

 

[sunflowerchick]

Ok 20 pages of catching up since yesterday and I have a few thoughts...

1. I know they have said the road was rough and I saw the video. I can tell you this. I grew up in an area VERY similar and I took a little 5-speed sedan up many a road I shouldn't have. It CAN be done. In fact, many of the roads I drove would be described as 4-wheel drive only. With a little know-how, you can do it in a car. It may not be good on the car and it takes A LOT longer. The whole time you watch carefully and pray you don't hit a rock with your oil pan.

2 - I do not try to read too much into anything LE has said at this point. As I have said before on this thread. LE is human. They are not communications majors and they still use catch-phrases and idioms, such as "at this point". It doesn't mean anything. It just means they could communicate better.

3. Everyone needs to stop looking at this from the perspective of your locale and upbringing, unless you are local or have been. The camping trip in the middle of nowhere, down a rough road, with little food or supplies, with those in the group who were there, is NOTHING new for the area. It is common. I have been on many similar camping trips, some with babies as young as 3 months and some with family friends I just met. It isn't weird. It is part of life in that "neck of the woods". There really isn't much else going on in Idaho TBH. Likewise, I do not find little DeOrr's attire weird for the same reason. It's common in Idaho.

4. Finally, I know that many have said there aren't mines close to the campsite HOWEVER since I come from a similar area I know that even if there aren't mines, there CAN be vent shafts, sometimes miles away. In my mind, this is honestly the most plausible theory because it explains how there is absolutely no trace. If he were in the water, something would have been found by now.

5. My question is this: Have they had searchers walking and on horseback all up and down those steep hills? And if not, why not? I would say they aren't just looking for the baby. They should also be looking for holes where he could have fallen.