ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #2

[Pugnolia]

BBM: This remark by the Sheriff could be taken to mean that he became aware of cremains that had been dumped into the Reservoir, not at the time of the search, but previous to the search—maybe sometime earlier in the month or a few days before the disappearance of little Deorr. I really would't think that the dumping was taking place during the search. The Sheriff never qualified this remark, but had been dumping possibly connotes something done earlier.

I believe that Deorr fell into the fast moving stream just steps away from their campsite, and was swept past the two miles or so perimeter that was searched by Search and Rescue. I've done a lot of canoeing and kayaking and have seen things swept quite swiftly downstream.

If he wasn't a victim to drowning, or wandering off into the woods and not found yet, my next belief would be he succumbed to something nefarious.

This is what the sheriff said concerning the dumping of cremains/now remains:
http://www.localnews8.com/news/new-details-on-search-for-deorr-kunz-jr/34281340
And this:
http://www.localnews8.com/news/new-details-on-search-for-deorr-kunz-jr/34281340
"Crews have spent dozens of hours focusing on the Stone Reservoir after cadaver dogs indicated there may be something there. On Friday, Bowerman told HLN they learned someone had been dumping human cremains in the reservoir, and that could be the smell the dogs picked up on.

“It’s pretty disappointing,” Bowerman said to HLN. “Someone was depositing human cremains up there while we’re searching the area. It contaminates the reservoir and the entire area.”

jmoho

 

[SleuthMom]

bbm
Some do, and which such a small child there wouldn't be any struggle. And you mustn't forget that if Deorr had wandered off and was taken by an animal much later and a mile away, any signs of an attack or prints might well have not been found.

The thing is...in that possible scenario if the parents were away for just 10 minutes as they stated, some sort of signs of an attack or print should have been found based on the radius that has been covered so far. It is my opinion that they were not away for just 10 minutes.

 

[bluesneakers]

What about if Deorr saw an animal and ran off after the big kitty or the doggie?

I think he would have shouted at it, or said "Kitty!" or something and that would have gotten one of the adults' attention.

 

[carbuff]

The thing is...in that possible scenario if the parents were away for just 10 minutes as they stated, some sort of signs of an attack or print should have been found based on the radius that has been covered so far. It is my opinion that they were not away for just 10 minutes.

I think what she's saying is if Deorr wandered off and was alive and well for a time, just lost (and possibly not even knowing he was lost if he was having a good time) he could have encountered a predatory animal and the evidence might be outside the area that was searched.

Could happen that way. Personally I think if he was harmed by a predatory animal, it was a two-legged one...though I'm not sure how that could have worked since they seem insistent there weren't any other campers around.

I'm back to thinking he tumbled into the creek and is snagged in a deep pool under a log or something.

 

[SleuthMom]

I think he would have shouted at it, or said "Kitty!" or something and that would have gotten one of the adults' attention.

Yes but the only adults around were great-grandpa and friend. We do not know the ages, if they can hear well, health related issues, etc.

 

[pappa rob]

SABBM

4senthia; this post is just my musing out loud -- it's not directed at you.

--- And how exactly would they know he wasn't in the water ??
Sorry, but I do not "get" this. If one were to place a small body in a sleeping bag or whatever and weigh it down with rocks, (sorry to type that ) the body may stay submerged forever unless decomposition brings it to the surface. So , yes, he could be in the water. Even if the water is as clear as glass, branches or piled up rocks can hide things.
Unless the sheriff knows something we do not.
And how would the sheriff know DeOrr wasn't on the plot of land .... when some other person brought in and scattered 'cremains', or remains -- and thus contaminated the search ?

Makes very little sense, imo.

The Sherriff stated that he's not in the water. The water's shallow and very clear, you could see him if he was in there.

 

[white rabbit]

4senthia, I've said this on other threads...

we have to insert a human factor into every case. no one likes to be embarrassed. in any situation. ego plays an enormous part in all of these threads. caylee Anthony, jonbenet ramsey, isa celis, just to name a few. the parents (innocent or guilty, and don't ask for my opinion on the named three) as well as LE don't want to admit mistakes, missed opportunities, media twists, et cetera.

resources and excuses go hand in hand no matter where the jurisdiction. rural Idaho or new york city. LE doesn't want to admit any fault (and as far as I can tell they've gone WAY above and beyond in searching for this child given their manpower) nor do they want to point fingers at locals. it causes egotistical community discord.

but in so many cases, these children go missing and there isn't justice. because no one asked the right questions nor rocked the boat.

hopefully on this case, the boat, finally, is capsized. the rabbit is way tired of abandoning cases because there simply is no justice.

 

[leilarose68]

Ok if LE is just stalling and doesn't really want valid statements out there, wouldn't they want us to know a child has been kidnapped?
Sheriff states there was no abduction. Fini.
Why would he obfuscate on the most crucial basic info? Isn't that why there are Amber Alerts and such?
jmoho

I think people are suggesting that LE might stall/obfuscate if LE believes the family are related to the disappearance somehow, not if a stranger took the kid. I'm NOT saying this is the case, but if the family were involved, there would be no reason for LE to let the public know early on... often in other cases, LE will obfuscate so the family gets complacent and doesn't think they're being watched as closely as they are, slips up and lets the truth out.

I'm NOT saying this is the case, just that it would be a possible reason

 

[4senthia]

I had many of the same feelings watching that interview.
The professionals that give their lives for the sake of finding the lost or wounded surely give all they have to such a search. I will not believe that this sweet beautiful little toddler wasn't absolutely in the front of all of their minds every day of the search.
Maddingly sad
jmoho

 

[leilarose68]

Do Deorr's parents have any other children? I know this has been covered but I missed it

 

[pappa rob]

This was posted earlier but seems so mind blowing to me.

Cadaver dogs led law enforcement directly to the reservoir but Bowerman said unrelated cremated remains dumped into the water during the search likely prompted the canines' interest. A search of the reservoir using advanced sonar equipment yielded nothing, he said.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/2...den-yield-no-clues-in-hunt-for-idaho-toddler/

He didn't say they were put there during the search. He said they were dumped there, he didn't say when. It could of been a day or two, or a week or.... Someone here said it was during the search, not Bowerman.

 

[carbuff]

He didn't say they were put there during the search. He said they were dumped there, he didn't say when. It could of been a day or two, or a week or.... Someone here said it was during the search, not Bowerman.

No, that's the exact wording in the article. "Cadaver dogs led law enforcement directly to the reservoir but Bowerman said unrelated cremated remains dumped into the water during the search likely prompted the canines' interest. A search of the reservoir using advanced sonar equipment yielded nothing, he said." http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/2...den-yield-no-clues-in-hunt-for-idaho-toddler/

So it might be bad reporting but we're not making things up.

 

[Penelope]

For those of you with Missing 411 tendencies, you may be interested to note that there is a small lake a little less than four miles west and a tad north of the campsite called, "Devil's Lake." Happened to see it while scouring the maps of the mines in the area. I had never heard of Missing 411 until this week. (I'll NOT be reading that anytime soon - I go camping way too much and would be paranoid.) The more I dig, the more I'm thinking old mine tunnel.

Thank you for that information - I just examined the map. Devils Lake is not far away - just dues northwest over Gunshot Peak. While my first guess is that Deorr drowned in the creek, if I were leading the investigation, I would send searchers, helicopters and drones in the Northeast direction up that peak and beyond to the lake.

 

[JLSChook]

Well, I hope my original theory was wrong, but...

What was your theory? I must have missed it.

 

[4senthia]

What am I missing?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/2...den-yield-no-clues-in-hunt-for-idaho-toddler/
"Cadaver dogs led law enforcement directly to the reservoir but Bowerman said unrelated cremated remains dumped into the water during the search likely prompted the canines' interest"
Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman

just how I read it and:moo:

 

[SleuthMom]

Do Deorr's parents have any other children? I know this has been covered but I missed it

As far as I understand, no but Deorr's mom has other children from a previous relationship but they do not live with her.

 

[jashrema]

~~I don't know "what" these dogs hit on, but I can tell you that the cremains of my last dog (RIP), which I still have, are NOT ashes.....They look like tiny chards of shells and rock...not "ashlike" at all.

~~On another note, "IF" somebody took this babe, I wonder if it was somebody he knows and likes, so readily went with them....The person could have just scooped him up off the ground, maybe offering to go find Mom and Dad or play a game....

What I was getting at is there has to be decomposing flesh. That they actually are sniffing for a certain chemical reaction (can't remember the name) that occurs once a body starts to decompose. With cremains...there is no decomposition. There are just the remains of burned bones basically....no flesh. If that is in fact true...then the dogs WERE hitting on decomposing flesh...NOT cremains. I know dogs can hit on that chemical way underground and underwater.

 

[jashrema]

I'm still waiting for the explanation that he jumped in his truck to drive where he knew where he could get a signal. Since he stated he HAD NEVER BEEN there, how did he know there was a better signal?? From his initial non-stop talking first interview, things have been very quiet. JMO..that sheriff is either the dumbest man or the smartest man in town. I'm hoping for the latter.

 

[4senthia]

Dogs can tell the difference between human bones and any other bones.
There are chemicals and substances in our bones that they sniff out.
The cadaverine and other things released in decomp aren't present, but the dogs are hitting on what's left in the bone fragments.
jmho

 

[SleuthMom]

What I was getting at is there has to be decomposing flesh. That they actually are sniffing for a certain chemical reaction (can't remember the name) that occurs once a body starts to decompose. With cremains...there is no decomposition. There are just the remains of burned bones basically....no flesh. If that is in fact true...then the dogs WERE hitting on decomposing flesh...NOT cremains. I know dogs can hit on that chemical way underground and underwater.

I read earlier today that there are dogs that can be trained for that purpose so they can hit on cremains as well.