ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #22

[TheTruthWillOut]

He said was that the parents were cooperative and giving him what he asked for, which I took to mean stuff like poly's and approval to search. He actually used the words "very truthful" to describe IR. At the time it did strike me that he did not choose to say the parents were truthful, just IR!


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Recently SB has now stated outright that the parents had been very/completely cooperative but he just doesn't believe the information given has been truthful. I'm sure IR has been much more cagey/reluctant to speak with with LE but what he has shared they believe it to be truthful.

That's my interpretation at this point.

 

[Tr.]

IMO it is irrelevant. Bizarre, but unrelated. First off, they likely wouldn't need the CONTENTS of it, because likely they'd have their ducks in a row (hiding Deorr, whether he was possibly barely alive or already deceased) when this went missing. I have a hard time believing that the bag would serve any purpose and that includes the contents of it. Some have suggested perhaps the bag was used to hide Deorr's body, but I doubt they called 911 and hours later when S&R got there they had a reason for the contents or the bag itself. And if they were going to hide his body, I doubt it would be in something that just went missing, something that people might have an "eye out for". Seems it would be a lot more discreet to hide his body in their own luggage or duffel bags.

Either way, I think his body had been hidden well before 911 were called.

Personally if I were innocent and someone implied that i might know something about a missing bag...i think i would allow it to be addressed and cleared up.

 

[Rayemonde]

Maybe IR co-operated in the beginning, took polygraphs, allowed his home to be searched etc... Then he became aware that people were making accusations about him and was worried LE might try to point the finger at him, so he got a lawyer, and the lawyer said no more interviews. After all, he'd already given them his story more than once, been back to the campsite with Bowerman, and story was the most consistent. he probably thought that going and giving the same story yet again wouldn't particularly help the investigation in any case.

 

[giagreen]

But he said that after IR retained counsel, correct? I would assume that IR is paying for legal counsel, so he's probably listening to what the lawyer is telling him to do.

To me...and it's all just a personal opinion if your more worried about your self then helping assist with a missing two year old boy then you've got something to hide.
I don't care if he has a past with LE or not. A child is missing and finding him is more important then not talking with LE. He could go back and talk with his lawyer present.

And if he didn't see nothing. And if he wasn't a part of any of this then why can't he talk about certain questions? We know LE didn't ask him not to talk. Yet when asked what he thought happen to DeOrr he said he thought he was abducted or taken by a wild animal. Something isn't right imo.

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[Rayemonde]

Maybe IR co-operated in the beginning, took polygraphs, allowed his home to be searched etc... Then he became aware that people were making accusations about him and was worried LE might try to point the finger at him, so he got a lawyer, and the lawyer said no more interviews. After all, he'd already given them his story more than once, been back to the campsite with Bowerman, and his story was the most consistent. He probably thought that going and giving the same story yet again wouldn't particularly help the investigation in any case.

 

[giagreen]

Maybe IR co-operated in the beginning, took polygraphs, allowed his home to be searched etc... Then he became aware that people were making accusations about him and was worried LE might try to point the finger at him, so he got a lawyer, and the lawyer said no more interviews. After all, he'd already given them his story more than once, been back to the campsite with Bowerman, and story was the most consistent. he probably thought that going and giving the same story yet again wouldn't particularly help the investigation in any case.

But MOST consistent isn't consistent. It just means less things changed imo.
I mean SB has got to have a reason that he can't rule the other two out.

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[SoccerMotha]

God love you guys that hang for years following these cases, never giving up. It's been eight months and we have nothing really, other than the parents being named as suspects, I for one am just so sad that this poor boy whom did not ask to be brought into this world, is still not being given the dignity of a proper burial that he deserves!

I keep trying to figure how they sleep at night. You allegedly know what happened to your child and may have caused his disappearance/death and you CAN SLEEP, you can live with yourself?! This is utterly baffling to me. I can't sleep most nights cause I'm worrying about all the stuff that's never going to happen but I'm the sort that prepares for the worst while hoping for the best.

We must never give up on these children. So many innocent souls being snuffed out, and for what?!

 

[DatelineFan]

To me...and it's all just a personal opinion if your more worried about your self then helping assist with a missing two year old boy then you've got something to hide.
I don't care if he has a past with LE or not. A child is missing and finding him is more important then not talking with LE. He could go back and talk with his lawyer present.

And if he didn't see nothing. And if he wasn't a part of any of this then why can't he talk about certain questions? We know LE didn't ask him not to talk. Yet when asked what he thought happen to DeOrr he said he thought he was abducted or taken by a wild animal. Something isn't right imo.

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BBM.

Do you have a link for when LE said they didn't ask him not to discuss this? I don't recall this. I also don't believe it AT ALL.

 

[giagreen]

BBM.

Do you have a link for when LE said they didn't ask him not to discuss this? I don't recall this. I also don't believe it AT ALL.

All the links are here in DeOrr's media thread.

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[DatelineFan]

All the links are here in DeOrr's media thread.

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I've read them. As far as I know, that was never said by law enforcement.

If you can quote it by LE, I'm happy to be wrong.

 

[persimmon]

Anybody caught up in a crime by no fault of their own, is wise to seek legal representation. Absolutely nothing suspicious about IR doing so. His narrative has been consistent and LE believes he is honest but if JM and VDK are arrested and the situation advances to court, IR will need to protect himself. He is likely to be cast in suspicion or implicated or accused by the parents who seem unwavering in their lies.

 

[Rayemonde]

BBM.

Do you have a link for when LE said they didn't ask him not to discuss this? I don't recall this. I also don't believe it AT ALL.

Here you go, I think this is what Giagreen is referring to:

Some people wondered because Isaac Reinwand in his interview with Nate Eaton said that he couldn’t answer any questions—that he was told not to answer any questions, and you know then Mr. Klein kind of disputed that so we have a question here, you know, Did you advise or instruct Isaac Reinwand not to talk to the media?

24:59
SB: No, in fact, you know from the get go, Isaac, you know it’s been included in our interviews and he chose at some point in time to contact an attorney, and I think that’s primarily due –he’s got a criminal record, and I think he’s had some issues in the past and so he felt like he’d been targeted in the past on other issues by law enforcement so I think he was trying to do the right thing and so he contacted an attorney.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot/page4

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

giagreen, what is your full theory on the disappearance?

 

[carbuff]

I personally would not talk to a private investigator ever, under any circumstances, no matter what the crime or situation.

 

[DatelineFan]

Here you go:



http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot/page4

Thanks! Like I said before, LE can't legally tell a witness (or a victim) that they aren't allowed to talk to the media. But they will stress the importance of the witness statement remaining confidential to protect the integrity of the investigation.*

I'm not going to argue about it. I've been involved in a high profile abduction and murder investigation. I know how it works. I don't believe for one second that LE encouraged IR to go spouting off to the media. That would be shooting themselves in the foot. In my opinion, it would be completely ridiculous to do so. Everyone else is free to believe what you want. To me, this is common sense.

I also noticed that SB said that IR is trying to do the right thing.

*fyi, I continue to use those words because every single time I met with LE, FBI, etc., those exact words were stated repeatedly. This was several years ago. I can just about guarantee they still use this statement. It's like a mantra that each of the detectives use over again.

 

[DatelineFan]

I personally would not talk to a private investigator ever, under any circumstances, no matter what the crime or situation.

I wouldn't either.

ETA - actually, I can think of a couple of circumstances when I might

 

[Tr.]

Narrowing down a timeline will help find Deorr.

I'm watching the first JM VDK interview :
https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search...t=avast&hsimp=yhs-001&p=deorr+kunz+interviews

..and staying focused on JM's eyes throughout while listening to DVK speak..it's interesting...DVK's mouth makes her a nervous wreck imo

Maybe this was discussed;
At about 7 minutes in when JM talks about the store clerk reporting a sighting of a gentleman and a filthy baby in a black truck...i get the sense that she brought it up as means to try and debunk the story..(or in that context)..sighting the time discrepancy. Thoughts???

VDK then jumps in and explains the time discrepancy and at 7:38 into the interview says "it WAS me, but....."
He didn't say it was us as in JM and him w/ Deorr jr. And the store clerk apparently reported a man and a baby not a man, woman and baby or couple w/ their son.
DVK does say that "we as a family went to pick up a few things". Truth or Lie?
This leads me to think that at some point VDK made a trip to the store with DK in tow the morning of possibly while mom was sleeping in or sleeping it off...imo
Has all this been discussed already?

 

[carbuff]

I wouldn't either.

ETA - actually, I can think of a couple of circumstances when I might

Well, yeah, I suppose never say never and all that.

 

[K.L.Puyallup]

IR says in the interview that he and GGP were friends. He says that he hasn't talked to GGP "all winter" and obviously implies that that is a change from the norm. When a person says that someone that is/was a friend has "changed", that is usually a negative thing in the eyes of the person saying it, because it implies that the person is now different from the way they were when they became friends, when there was something that attracted the two to each other and made them want to be friends. He also states this in a way that sounded to me like it was either GGP's decision or that because IR decided to tell what is undoubtedly the most accurate version of events, which is an obvious conflict and problem that would not allow them to be friends any longer.

Why would GGP and IR not be able to be friends any longer, as a direct result of what happened on that trip, keeping in mind that it is most likely evolving into a murder investigation, with JM and VDK being named suspects? And, depending on whether or not LE believe that GGP's discrepancies are the result of "confusion" or not, if (when, I think..) charges are brought against the parents, it is very likely that GGP may also be charged with some sort of accessory/obstruction charge. I think the most likely reason they have not spoken all winter is that IR is telling a different story, one that implicates at least JM and VDK, and GGP isn't happy about it.

I think if he were talking about the way the public has treated him in a negative way, I don't think that "people change" would be the choice of words he'd use. In light of his correct use of the term, "skeptimistic", I believe he'd have been a bit more clear, if talking about the public, maybe saying that people's opinions of him changed without knowing the full story, which led to him being treated as someone who is guilty of something. And he never refers to any of the negative things that people said about him in the beginning, like, "Oh, IR is the mysterious friend.. he must be involved." Or that his privacy was invaded by people trying to dig up dirt on him. He doesn't say any of that, IIRC. He speaks about how his friendship with GGP "changed" and later stated that people "change" in the blink of any eye. And I cannot make the "until it's too late" fit in with him talking about how poorly the public has treated him either in person or on SM. What's it too late for? To reach 1000 Twitter followers? Too late he realized people have a negative view of him? Too late for what?

IMO, he really wants to tell his story, and is giving as much information as he can while still following his attorney and LE's instructions. And his story is obviously one that casts, if not direct blame, but at least a negative light on JM and VDK, and one that GGP doesn't support him telling.

Specifically referencing the winter comment, it could be due to RW's health concerns. DeOrr went missing in July, and IR specifically references winter as the time he hasn't heard from RW. This is just an assumption, but that might indicate that they remained in contact through summer and fall until RW's health began to decline.

Isaac: I haven't heard from Walton all winter long.
Interviewer: Have you heard how his health's doing? We heard it's not doing really well.
Isaac: That's what I hear. He's on oxygen. So.

I do believe that IR's story has remained consistent, because it has remained true. I think he left out key details for a while about exactly what happened to DeOrr, and given his reverence for RW, I think this was to protect RW. I actually suspect that IR might have given the police his full testimony sometime last month, and that might be why LE has honed in on calling out JM and VDK as being liars and suspects.

 

[desert-blue]

To those that think there is something behind the EMT bag:

Where do you think DeOrr's body was before it was placed in the bag?
Don't you think it would have been highly risky and beyond stupid for DK and JM to (1) break into a vehicle belonging to a member of SAR and steal the bag, (2) retrieve the body and stuff it in the bag, and (3) escape with the bag and dispose of it all with LE and SAR on the scene?

I don't think the bag has anything to do with baby DeOrr.

Yes, stupid and risky, but perhaps it was done out of desperation with little regard to "reason." Maybe GGPA forced them to call 911 before they were ready.... thus the "hauling" in the truck. It's possible DeOrr was placed somewhere and the parents feared he'd be found as the search radius expanded.

The cars were probably parked at some distance away from all the activity of the searching, so I don't think stealing the EMT bag would be that difficult (and clearly it was stolen without anyone noticing). The more challenging part would be the moving of the body - perhaps it was done in the middle of the night. I'd be curious to know if they were being monitored at all the first night. I also wonder at what point the family was relocated out of the search area (and if their vehicles were searched before this or after this or both). Another question is whether any of the family's vehicles were allowed to leave at any time during the first few days.

I tend to think that the "rumors" from the first interview are all significant. The parents were planting these seeds and bringing up these "rumors" because they were trying to redirect the investigation away from themselves while showing how these suspicious things were really all just rumors and had nothing to do with DeOrr's disappearance or their involvement in it. You have to wonder why they even brought up these so-called rumors (that no one had actually even heard) in the first place. Perhaps it's because they knew that people might have seen things or heard things that might be suspicious (because they WERE suspicious!). The "rumors" all likely have some element of truth to them and in the case of the EMT bag, I think the truth is that JM and DK had something to do with the stolen EMT bag. Obviously, MOO. Maybe it was just another bizarre coincidence, but for some reason, it just doesn't sit well with me...