ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #24

[Butler]

I respect your opinion. However, JM and VDK have been declared suspects by LE and have been for quite some time. They, as a family hired Klein to do exactly what he is doing. They solicited public funds to pay him and I belive knew full well! Some of his findings would be released to the public who paid his expenses. If they didnt want that to happen could they just not have taken public money? I would assume so.

I agree Klein can be annoying and loud. The family ASKED him to do his loud annoying job and now that he is saying they need to come forward with the truth it's annoying to them to the point they want to sue him. I would bet my bottom dollar if he was just as loud and annoying about their innocence they wouldn't be complaining at all. Isnt Klein in essence saying the same thing that LE said a few weeks ago? JM and VDK are lying?

So LE, 2 PIs, FBI all say the parents need to tell the truth, they're still not happy with those answers, SO they hire an attorney. This attorney AFAIK used to be an ambulance chaser and now he's decided he is going to be a defense attorney, speaking his annoying truth on the news. SO he is is happy to say whatever they want and sue who ever they feel like suing. Go figure. I would also place a bet that there's gonna be some kind of fundraising for that.

Another idea is MAYBE they could just come forward with the truth like LE has requested and then none of this would be happening. They actually have total control. jmo of course and again, I completely respect yours!

BBM - Can you back this up? I know Allen & his family, he is an honorable man. He has been an attorney in the Idaho Falls area for many years doing all types of legal work, criminal law, family law, personal injury.

 

[Beezneez]

Question for Medical people here (and anybody else)...Is it possible, that if you go through a traumatic event(s)......your brain shuts out that part of your memory.....like some kind of survival mode thing?

There are several cases of people not remembering what happened during traumatic events, but it would need to be thoroughly evaluated by an objective physiologist/psychiatrist. Often they have created and tell a version of events that could not have happened based on the known facts. Whether these people are genuinely experiencing a dissociative state or are just making things up is really subjective interpretation.

If someone gets a good whack to the head (airbag during a car accident is good example) they may lose memory surrounding the event, but there is no evidence that JM was physically injured at any point.
If someone were taking a sedative hypnotic type drug (ativan/valium- for acute anxiety) or ambien-type drugs (for sleep disorders) it is possible that they did not form memories that could be stored during the time the drugs were active in their system. We do not know if JM was prescribed these medications.
There are no indications that anyone was blackout level drunk that morning, since they were all up walking and talking when LE arrived.
There are other recreational drugs that could explain a memory lapse or remembering things differently than they actually played out, however we don't know if that is a factor in this case.

 

[desert-blue]

Do you have any firm thoughts of what evidence could have been 'lost' - that's a very interesting reflection.

I think it was treated solely as a child wandering away in the woods for at least the first two days. Did anyone check the tampon/pad box to see if it was opened? Were any of the POI's tested for alcohol and/or drugs? Were any of the vehicles impounded? Did anyone monitor and supervise the POI's for the first two days? Where did DK and JM go when they were out zipping around on the ATV's? The list goes on. I'm not a detective, but you can't go back in time to collect evidence.

 

[courtneyb]

There are several cases of people not remembering what happened during traumatic events, but it would need to be thoroughly evaluated by an objective physiologist/psychiatrist. Often they have created and tell a version of events that could not have happened based on the known facts. Whether these people are genuinely experiencing a dissociative state or are just making things up is really subjective interpretation.

If someone gets a good whack to the head (airbag during a car accident is good example) they may lose memory surrounding the event, but there is no evidence that JM was physically injured at any point.
If someone were taking a sedative hypnotic type drug (ativan/valium- for acute anxiety) or ambien-type drugs (for sleep disorders) it is possible that they did not form memories that could be stored during the time the drugs were active in their system. We do not know if JM was prescribed these medications.
There are no indications that anyone was blackout level drunk that morning, since they were all up walking and talking when LE arrived.
There are other recreational drugs that could explain a memory lapse or remembering things differently than they actually played out, however we don't know if that is a factor in this case.

Plus... does everyone in this case who is a POI or suspect have dissociative amnesia?

 

[Butler]

https://www.isc.idaho.gov/cp/manual/CHAPTER 9-3rd Edition.pdf

If the non-custodial parent is not willing, the custodial parent can file a complaint with the court for the department of child protection to investigate. This would be the part where BB takes JM to court to request the investigation.
JM may allow the investigation or may willingly sign her rights over to BB.
BB is the party available to "adopt" the children, as he is the only parent maintaining a household for the children, then only parent employed, the only parent not currently being investigated for the disappearance and death of a child.

Respectfully, it just doesn't work that way. For example BB would have to have a wife who is willing to be the adoptive parent. A legal parent doesn't adopt their own children.

In addition BB can't file a complaint with the court, he would have to ask Idaho Department of Health & Welfare to open a case and investigate. Only IDHW can ask the court to terminate rights, no individual.

I suggest you actually read your link and understand the word "Department" is short for Idaho Department of Health & Welfare.

 

[bessie]

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[The Apparition]

This case has taken everyone on a roller coaster of emotion. The car accident angle seems pretty reasonable, even if it's a let down from some of the more wild theories. Lets assume the main players were pretty drunk, killing someone while drunk with a car would lead to some jail time, and loss of a any commercial drivers license. If some or all of the other campers were also not in their right mind, perhaps the cover up was hatched. I could see others present feeling blame also if the let a 2 year old wander around while a drunk person was moving a truck around the campsite. I think it's safe to say this wasn't a meeting of the Idaho Mensa society so perhaps this relatively simple explanation is what happened? Once all this publicity and heat comes it gets harder to come clean.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

This case has taken everyone on a roller coaster of emotion. The car accident angle seems pretty reasonable, even if it's a let down from some of the more wild theories. Lets assume the main players were pretty drunk, killing someone while drunk with a car would lead to some jail time, and loss of a any commercial drivers license. If some or all of the other campers were also not in their right mind, perhaps the cover up was hatched. I could see others present feeling blame also if the let a 2 year old wander around while a drunk person was moving a truck around the campsite. I think it's safe to say this wasn't a meeting of the Idaho Mensa society so perhaps this relatively simple explanation is what happened? Once all this publicity and heat comes it gets harder to come clean.

And with this, I think about Klein's statement of GGP telling him he thought there might have been an accident.

 

[mommylicious]

But if it WAS a drunk driving accident.... wouldn't you just wait until you sobered up and then call 911? Or say someone else who wasn't drunk (maybe that wasn't an option...) was driving? That seems an easier lie to stick with than hiding a body and claiming they were kidnapped. The timeline starts at 8 but the phone calls weren't until 6+ hours later.

I just see something like that causing more of a ruckus (screaming to stop the truck, fighting, whatever) that it seems IR would have picked up on it more. I get the impression (and entirely possibly incorrectly) that IR isn't quite sure what went on but has bits and pieces. It seems that even if he were fishing, he might be aware of something like someone getting hit by the truck.

That said, if the blood was tested and was DeOrr's, then that could go to the "how" that's been hinted about. But if it was DeOrr's.... I'm sure it would have been tested right at the beginning, the truck would have been held as evidence and parents would have been suspects much sooner. IMO.

 

[OSpyder]

But if it WAS a drunk driving accident.... wouldn't you just wait until you sobered up and then call 911? Or say someone else who wasn't drunk (maybe that wasn't an option...) was driving? That seems an easier lie to stick with than hiding a body and claiming they were kidnapped.

And hide it for 8 months?

 

[Rayemonde]

Wouldn't you call 911, because your child might still be able to be saved with emergency medical attention.

 

[The Apparition]

And with this, I think about Klein's statement of GGP telling him he thought there might have been an accident.

Yes! That is partly why I think this is what happened. Someone who posts here has Occam's razor as part of their signature, it would be very appropriate for this situation, I guess my Suicide Solution signature from Ozzy isn't a bad second choice.

 

[ninij9]

Someone close to the family has speculated that alcohol and the vehicle were involved.

Now that seems very plausible to me.

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[ConcernedCitizenID]

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This includes use of the Private Message system via comments such as “Check your PMs” or “PM me” posted in discussion threads.

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Very good to know. Thank you!

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

But if it WAS a drunk driving accident.... wouldn't you just wait until you sobered up and then call 911? Or say someone else who wasn't drunk (maybe that wasn't an option...) was driving? That seems an easier lie to stick with than hiding a body and claiming they were kidnapped.

Could be the accident happened at night and instead of calling 911 they think he's ok and put him to bed. He dies during the night. They are afraid of what will happen to them for not calling 911 so they hide him.

Oh heck, I don't know! I really wish we had answers. I'm driving myself crazy here.

 

[neesaki]

RSBM

I am so impressed by your thoughts and subsequent map trails, amazing work.
My first thought was - how would the parents know of the areas you refer to without previous knowledge - but I think smartphones nowadays can provide maps and references immediately, so maybe previous knowledge isn't necessary.
My second thought was - Are there any mines within the distance?
Burying a body is risky I'd have thought, especially in an area with so much wildlife. Wolves etc might dig it up ?
Being from the UK. I think of April Jones missing in Wales and the searches there that continued for months because it was such a remote area, with many mines where she could have been placed.
Virtually impossible to retrieve a body (such a small one too) or track it with dogs/searchers if it were left in a mine I would imagine. Is this a possibility?
I'd be glad to hear any comments. I'm possibly way off track, I can't get into the mind of anyone who could harm a child so just my thoughts and imo, and to say thanks for your post.

GGP was familiar with the campground, so I guess it's possible he might be familiar with the surrounding area as well. jmo

 

[The Apparition]

Wouldn't you call 911, because your child might still be able to be saved with emergency medical attention.

As I said if you are drunk you will be prosecuted for DUI manslaughter and suffer all the consequences of that. It would take hours to sober up and even this group would realize if you leave a body lying around for 6 hours before you call the cops they will know something is up. It is a horrible decision they made but they don't seem real bright when sober so who knows how ugly it gets if they are messed up.

 

[pepelepolecat]

I'm still over here giggling over the fact that Klein had his client go stare at wall and wait for some undercover pi to whisper in his ear "999"
Oh man.....lol

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Right? When I read that, I could only think that Klein was just messing with him for fun. I cannot believe that's really how he works. I HOPE that's not how he really works. Yeah, it'd be really unprofessional to mess with a client, but it's just cartoonishly goofy to do that sort of thing seriously.

 

[ninij9]

So I'm sure this was hashed to death a bazillion threads ago, but in Jessica's role as a CNA would she have an EMT bag? Good thing to bring camping right? Like a first aid kit on steroids.
I can't remember if you guys ever uncovered the mystery of the EMT bag after all.

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[Rayemonde]

I don't know that ggp actually knows what happened. He might realise that *something* must have happened because he can tell that that V and J are lying and covering something up, but he might not have actually witnessed anything. So he might have told KIC that he thinks maybe there was an accident, but genuinely not know any more.