ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #27

[carbuff]

Because you were absolutely hammered the night before, stumbled out of your tent at 8am for a wee, vaguely recalled seeing a kid getting told off for throwing stuff in a fire, then crashed out for a few more hours?

Did Isaac come up with the 8am bit? He's not been very good at remembering any other times!

I'll be very surprised if that time isn't just an approximation.

 

[notmissing]

It seems like IR values his friendship with ggp so much that he would do whatever he says. I'm mean "what's done is done" so let's cover our butts..I think IR would follow suit. He seems impressionable. I don't think ggp or IR did anything to deorr but I 100% think they know what happened or that something bad happened.

I've considered typing each person's key statements in sentence form, cutting them out and sorting them by author. Then narrowing them down by removing the obvious bullsquash. It would be interesting to see what remains but I doubt it would really help. (I guess that's how my brain works) If there was just some way to remove all of the junk maybe we could get somewhere. What a cluster!!

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[MsMarple]

And to add to that, IR states at about the 4:30 mark in the interview, that after the family returned from the store they just sat around chatting a little bit and hung out . Then Bob (GGP) told him to show them where the fishing holes were. What a mess of a timeline.

[video=youtube;OWCFhAtLjcs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWCFhAtLjcs&feature=youtu.be[/video]

What a mess is right! I've given up trying to gel IR's statements with VK's and JM's statements for now. As far as I can tell, IR never saw VK and little DeOrr at the creek. He thought they were following behind. He spent 5 or 10 minutes with JM and then left to go to another fishing hole, without seeing VK or DeOrr. The next thing he "notices" is GGP pacing high up on the ridge.

Meanwhile, VK and JM said that they decided to go exploring and found some minnows that they wanted to show to DeOrr. VK discovered him missing when he went back to the campground to get him. And now we hear that JM was fishing, not just "exploring" when VK discovered DeOrr missing.

Maybe y'all can read through this and figure out a timeline.

From part 1:

Interviewer: Okay. And then were you at the campground when they came back?
IR: Yeah.
I: And baby DeOrr was still with them when they came back?
IR: That is correct.
I: Okay. So then what happened? What were you guys doing then, do you remember?
IR: We kinda just, you know, sat around, chatted for a little bit, hung out, and then Bob told me to go show them where the... we got all the fishing gear ready and Bob told me to show them where the fishing hole is. I walked upwards toward upstream, towards the fishing hole where we were catching them - me and Bob were fishing before - and I showed them where it was and everything.
I: How long do you think you were up there with... when you were showing Jessica and DeOrr, how long were you up there with them?
IR: Uh, I’m not sure. I don’t...
I: You don’t know. Do you know how far away from the campground you guys were?
IR: I don’t know, maybe... I don’t know, about three, four hundred feet or something. Not very far.
I: Okay.
IR: You know, I saw... I seen, when we went, I saw, you know...I thought everybody was with us. I thought DeOrr... I was in ahead of... and DeOrr Senior was behind me and so was DeOrr.

From part 2:

I: So you thought baby DeOrr was...
IR: I thought they were all follow... all were going as a group, yes.
I: So, did you look back, did you actually see them all with you as a group at some point?
IR: At some point, before we... we were all as a group before we... as we started to leave the campground, I remember all of us being together. We’re...
I: [Interrupts] ...But not Bob.*
IR: Right.
I: Bob wasn’t there.
IR: Bob was at the.. stayed at the camp.
SR: Okay, but to the very first spot where you were showing them, do you remember, was Jessica holding DeOrr? Was Senior DeOrr holding DeOrr? Because if he was having trouble walking he probably would have to have been carried at some point, right?
IR: Right.
I: So, you remember if anyone was holding him?
IR: If he was, if he was down there... Like I said, I don’t, it’s like I don’t re... like I can’t answer that. I don’t re... you know. That’s what I said - I don’t remember everything. As far as I know I thought baby DeOrr was still behind us and I was showing Jessica. Like when, when I went to go show them the the fishing hole, like I went down there and showed Jessica where the fishing hole is and I assumed that, you know, DeOrr and his dad were right behind me.
I: Okay.
IR: Right be... or just behind us they... it was just taking them a little bit to catch up.
I: And at what point did you and DeOrr Senior and Jessica split up? They went somewhere else and you went somewhere else, right? You came down the creek closer to the campground and left them up there?
IR: Yeah...
I: ...And so
IR: … I did. I mean it was like five, ten min – I still don’t know, I think it must have been five, ten minutes.
I: Okay
IR: After I did that, I started to walk, I walked towards camp, and I went to another fishing hole to fish and I was down there fishing for a while. And that’s when I noticed Bob was up there on the ridge, walking, pacing back and forth, so I asked him what was going on and he said, “Well, DeOrr’s missing.” And I was like “What?” – so...

From VK/JM first interview:

VK: He was playing with grandpa.

JM: He, yeah, he was with my grandfather.

VK: He was over... he was getting ready for a nap, uh, say it was almost... by that time it was almost two, and he usually takes his nap. We was just... we decided we were going to go a little exploring, and he was going to be good with grandpa by the campfire. We weren't more than fifty.. fifty yards away and ten minutes but for time, we, I, seen him to the point I figured out he was gone and I come back up to the creek and I actually seen... there were some things down by there, some little minnows that I thought he would just love.

 

[smile22]

Really haven't followed the threads but from reading the people article it
Said cops believe they know who did it or have some inkling also said family members all have inconstant stories so what's the short version

Was his family involved or
Not


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[ZooSleuth]

Because you were absolutely hammered the night before, stumbled out of your tent at 8am for a wee, vaguely recalled seeing a kid getting told off for throwing stuff in a fire, then crashed out for a few more hours?

Did Isaac come up with the 8am bit? He's not been very good at remembering any other times!

BBM: For the most part I would expect everybody's times up until Deorr went missing to be approximations. Whenever I have gone camping, I hardly ever look at the clock. One of the points of going camping is to detach from the rest of the world so I'm not looking at my phone or clock. I always have a general sense of the time, but when I finally do look at the clock I could be 1-2 hours off from what I thought it was. Additionally, if I have been drinking, my sense of time becomes more off.

I would expect DK and JM's times to be the most accurate since they went to the store (clock in truck), and since JM used her cell phone on the trip to the store.

 

[boston5]

BBM: For the most part I would expect everybody's times up until Deorr went missing to be approximations. Whenever I have gone camping, I hardly ever look at the clock. One of the points of going camping is to detach from the rest of the world so I'm not looking at my phone or clock. I always have a general sense of the time, but when I finally do look at the clock I could be 1-2 hours off from what I thought it was. Additionally, if I have been drinking, my sense of time becomes more off.

I would expect DK and JM's times to be the most accurate since they went to the store (clock in truck), and since JM used her cell phone on the trip to the store.

Yes, I agree! I never look at the clock or my phone when camping. I'm always surprised when I look at the clock and it's several hours before or after what I thought.

What bothers me the most is that with all of the "missing time" there is just not enough time for everything that they say happened, happen.

 

[neesaki]

What a mess is right! I've given up trying to gel IR's statements with VK's and JM's statements for now. As far as I can tell, IR never saw VK and little DeOrr at the creek. He thought they were following behind. He spent 5 or 10 minutes with JM and then left to go to another fishing hole, without seeing VK or DeOrr. The next thing he "notices" is GGP pacing high up on the ridge.

Meanwhile, VK and JM said that they decided to go exploring and found some minnows that they wanted to show to DeOrr. VK discovered him missing when he went back to the campground to get him. And now we hear that JM was fishing, not just "exploring" when VK discovered DeOrr missing.

Maybe y'all can read through this and figure out a timeline.

From part 1:

Interviewer: Okay. And then were you at the campground when they came back?
IR: Yeah.
I: And baby DeOrr was still with them when they came back?
IR: That is correct.
I: Okay. So then what happened? What were you guys doing then, do you remember?
IR: We kinda just, you know, sat around, chatted for a little bit, hung out, and then Bob told me to go show them where the... we got all the fishing gear ready and Bob told me to show them where the fishing hole is. I walked upwards toward upstream, towards the fishing hole where we were catching them - me and Bob were fishing before - and I showed them where it was and everything.
I: How long do you think you were up there with... when you were showing Jessica and DeOrr, how long were you up there with them?
IR: Uh, I’m not sure. I don’t...
I: You don’t know. Do you know how far away from the campground you guys were?
IR: I don’t know, maybe... I don’t know, about three, four hundred feet or something. Not very far.
I: Okay.
IR: You know, I saw... I seen, when we went, I saw, you know...I thought everybody was with us. I thought DeOrr... I was in ahead of... and DeOrr Senior was behind me and so was DeOrr.

From part 2:

I: So you thought baby DeOrr was...
IR: I thought they were all follow... all were going as a group, yes.
I: So, did you look back, did you actually see them all with you as a group at some point?
IR: At some point, before we... we were all as a group before we... as we started to leave the campground, I remember all of us being together. We’re...
I: [Interrupts] ...But not Bob.*
IR: Right.
I: Bob wasn’t there.
IR: Bob was at the.. stayed at the camp.
SR: Okay, but to the very first spot where you were showing them, do you remember, was Jessica holding DeOrr? Was Senior DeOrr holding DeOrr? Because if he was having trouble walking he probably would have to have been carried at some point, right?
IR: Right.
I: So, you remember if anyone was holding him?
IR: If he was, if he was down there... Like I said, I don’t, it’s like I don’t re... like I can’t answer that. I don’t re... you know. That’s what I said - I don’t remember everything. As far as I know I thought baby DeOrr was still behind us and I was showing Jessica. Like when, when I went to go show them the the fishing hole, like I went down there and showed Jessica where the fishing hole is and I assumed that, you know, DeOrr and his dad were right behind me.
I: Okay.
IR: Right be... or just behind us they... it was just taking them a little bit to catch up.
I: And at what point did you and DeOrr Senior and Jessica split up? They went somewhere else and you went somewhere else, right? You came down the creek closer to the campground and left them up there?
IR: Yeah...
I: ...And so
IR: … I did. I mean it was like five, ten min – I still don’t know, I think it must have been five, ten minutes.
I: Okay
IR: After I did that, I started to walk, I walked towards camp, and I went to another fishing hole to fish and I was down there fishing for a while. And that’s when I noticed Bob was up there on the ridge, walking, pacing back and forth, so I asked him what was going on and he said, “Well, DeOrr’s missing.” And I was like “What?” – so...

From VK/JM first interview:

VK: He was playing with grandpa.

JM: He, yeah, he was with my grandfather.

VK: He was over... he was getting ready for a nap, uh, say it was almost... by that time it was almost two, and he usually takes his nap. We was just... we decided we were going to go a little exploring, and he was going to be good with grandpa by the campfire. We weren't more than fifty.. fifty yards away and ten minutes but for time, we, I, seen him to the point I figured out he was gone and I come back up to the creek and I actually seen... there were some things down by there, some little minnows that I thought he would just love.

Hey, thanks for the recap. All I can say, is that it seems to be a slam dunk convoluted mess. If any one of them are telling the whole truth, I would be way more than surprised. I have serious empathy for Sheriff B and Klein as well. I hope to God they can figure this mess out. Most importantly, find baby Deorr. He deserves to be found. jmo

 

[kshultz06082]

But why would the parents cover for ggp if it was only an accident that took place. Because I don't see ggp purposely doing anything.

Now ggp would cover for mom. And dad would cover for mom and IR would cover for ggp covering for mom. Jmo.

But still. The conspiracy cover up for an accident is nil in this case.

So maybe mom just said accident to others and please don't say nothing. Idk

Inheritance hopes?

 

[neesaki]

Inheritance hopes?

This was one of my theories a long time ago. Money talks. Same thing could go for IR. JMO

 

[SweetT]

This was one of my theories a long time ago. Money talks. Same thing could go for IR. JMO

Does ggpa even have money? I mean if he doesn't then that kinda blows that theory. I would still think they wouldnt cover for ggpa for money or hopes of inheritance, whats the purpose if he did something he could go to jail and they'd still get the money. Not saying he did anything but he is getting up there in age and a prison sentence would probably be the end of him.

 

[CanManEh]

can anyone tell me what is wrong with IR someone i heard had stated he was slow well slow means alot of things so does anyone have an actual condition that he has .Someone in my familly is on the spectrem chart for autism now there at a level 10 which makes you borderline so it makes her a little behind but not to much .The funny thing is the impression i allways got is she is like my own rain man in now she is nothing like him in the movie but the memory part is pretty darn close this familly member i talk about has like a i dont even know what to call it just a crazy memory she forgets nothing and remembers it word for word the time and day it happen its crazy ..and i get the feeling that the familly wants to pin this on IR but they might just wanna reconsider that because so far he seems to be the same way doesn't really know the magnatude of what he is saying but remembers everything and if he keeps talking he may just let the cat out of the bag such as the mom dad and deorr going in to town to get gas for some reason i dont think they thought he would remember that cause why wouldnt they tell the police they left with deorr for an hour or so im sure they asked them over n over did u leave the camp ground and clearly the parents said npothing about leaving for the gas but Ir rememberd it but thats how thier minds work they have memories like they never forget anything...

 

[neesaki]

Does ggpa even have money? I mean if he doesn't then that kinda blows that theory. I would still think they wouldnt cover for ggpa for money or hopes of inheritance, whats the purpose if he did something he could go to jail and they'd still get the money. Not saying he did anything but he is getting up there in age and a prison sentence would probably be the end of him.

Who knows, people in his age group save money. He very well could have money. And, he may have a will. We don't know. It's just one possibility. JMO

 

[neesaki]

can anyone tell me what is wrong with IR someone i heard had stated he was slow well slow means alot of things so does anyone have an actual condition that he has .Someone in my familly is on the spectrem chart for autism now there at a level 10 which makes you borderline so it makes her a little behind but not to much .The funny thing is the impression i allways got is she is like my own rain man in now she is nothing like him in the movie but the memory part is pretty darn close this familly member i talk about has like a i dont even know what to call it just a crazy memory she forgets nothing and remembers it word for word the time and day it happen its crazy ..and i get the feeling that the familly wants to pin this on IR but they might just wanna reconsider that because so far he seems to be the same way doesn't really know the magnatude of what he is saying but remembers everything and if he keeps talking he may just let the cat out of the bag such as the mom dad and deorr going in to town to get gas for some reason i dont think they thought he would remember that cause why wouldnt they tell the police they left with deorr for an hour or so im sure they asked them over n over did u leave the camp ground and clearly the parents said npothing about leaving for the gas but Ir rememberd it but thats how thier minds work they have memories like they never forget anything...

Good points, CanManEh. Good to see you here.

 

[Jackeee]

can anyone tell me what is wrong with IR someone i heard had stated he was slow well slow means alot of things so does anyone have an actual condition that he has .Someone in my familly is on the spectrem chart for autism now there at a level 10 which makes you borderline so it makes her a little behind but not to much .The funny thing is the impression i allways got is she is like my own rain man in now she is nothing like him in the movie but the memory part is pretty darn close this familly member i talk about has like a i dont even know what to call it just a crazy memory she forgets nothing and remembers it word for word the time and day it happen its crazy ..and i get the feeling that the familly wants to pin this on IR but they might just wanna reconsider that because so far he seems to be the same way doesn't really know the magnatude of what he is saying but remembers everything and if he keeps talking he may just let the cat out of the bag such as the mom dad and deorr going in to town to get gas for some reason i dont think they thought he would remember that cause why wouldnt they tell the police they left with deorr for an hour or so im sure they asked them over n over did u leave the camp ground and clearly the parents said npothing about leaving for the gas but Ir rememberd it but thats how thier minds work they have memories like they never forget anything...

Hey CanManEh.

 

[Dee10]

Inheritance hopes?

And what would that pay?

ETA - As a estimate maybe $5,000 from a company perhaps.

 

[neesaki]

Does ggpa even have money? I mean if he doesn't then that kinda blows that theory. I would still think they wouldnt cover for ggpa for money or hopes of inheritance, whats the purpose if he did something he could go to jail and they'd still get the money. Not saying he did anything but he is getting up there in age and a prison sentence would probably be the end of him.

And what does he have to lose ? I bet he has something to offer. And remember the interview where he stated he only has maybe two or three years to live ? JMO

 

[boston5]

Question: does anyone know for sure if IR has a lawyer?

 

[KatieLiz]

Really haven't followed the threads but from reading the people article it
Said cops believe they know who did it or have some inkling also said family members all have inconstant stories so what's the short version

Was his family involved or
Not


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi Smile 22! Unfortunately there is no "short version" to this story. It's the most convoluted clusterf*** I think I've ever read. But for the short answer: it appears the majority of us (and the investigators) believe the parents to be responsible. Unfortunately, all their stories have more twists and turns than a mountain road. We may be riding this roller coaster for a while yet.

If you want To give yourself a quick briefing without reading all the threads, I suggest you check out the media thread. The PEOPLE article you read is the worst media "report" I've seen on this case. The media thread contains some great info and interviews to show you what these parents are all about.

 

[neesaki]

Question: does anyone know for sure if IR has a lawyer?

Yes he does.

 

[Jackeee]

I would like to see INDIVIDUAL interviews with JA aka JM, and DVK that are as long and as detailed as those with IR. IR was not responsible for little DeOrr. He just happened to be on the camping trip as far as we know. If IR chose to totally chill either naturally or with the help of a substance or whatever, and slept until the crack of noon, then so be it. He didn't have a 2 year old to look after. I think it's more important that those responsible for DeOrr, agree on who made breakfast and who slept where the night before. Then there's the minnows. It just goes on. There are too many discrepancies and I don't like anyone being made a scapegoat. However, if IR does have anything to to with this, well, we'll talk later. JMO x1000