ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #27

[boston5]

What if instead of stating what could have happened, we work backwards? What could not have happened?

An animal could not have taken Deorr, because of the boots.

There was no chance of an abduction on the mountain, because of the boots, and no sign of anyone else in the area reported by anyone.

There was no chance that he drowned, that was too shallow and they thoroughly searched the creek.

What else??

 

[KatieLiz]

WOW...

I believe I am within TOS to post this, if not please delete.

So that video that Klein shared on his Facebook, with the interviewer telling Trina about GGPa's comments about "what's done is done". There is a VERY interesting comment by "K H-F" with replies by a "GW". Things that make you go "hmmm...??!!!!"

 

[Jackeee]

What if instead of stating what could have happened, we work backwards? What could not have happened?

An animal could not have taken Deorr, because of the boots.

There was no chance of an abduction on the mountain, because of the boots, and no sign of anyone else in the area reported by anyone.

There was no chance that he drowned, that was too shallow and they thoroughly searched the creek.

What else??

Thanks for the challenge boston5. I can come up with a few 'could not haves', however there is always a 'but'. Let me work on working backwards. :thinking:

 

[Cricket99]

The news special on July 11, the one year later story, broke my heart. I really feel for Trina Clegg this is her own father and daughter she knows could be involved in her grandsons demise. She is really heartbroken. I can't imagine losing one of my grandchildren. There is no way I will ever believe she had one iota of involvement as has been speculated. JMO

 

[Jackeee]

What if instead of stating what could have happened, we work backwards? What could not have happened?

An animal could not have taken Deorr, because of the boots.

There was no chance of an abduction on the mountain, because of the boots, and no sign of anyone else in the area reported by anyone.

There was no chance that he drowned, that was too shallow and they thoroughly searched the creek.

What else??

I'll start with an easy one. There is no chance DeOrr wandered away because his boots were too big and he couldn't walk easily on uneven terrain.

 

[Sillybilly]

Can someone please refresh my memory. When this case first broke, I thought it was said that GGPa had been to that campground before but that IR had not. Does anyone else recall that?

 

[Jackeee]

Can someone please refresh my memory. When this case first broke, I thought it was said that GGPa had been to that campground before but that IR had not. Does anyone else recall that?

I had read here that it was one of GGP's favorite spots which is what prompted the trip. None of the others had been there afaik. Sorry, no link.

 

[renarde]

Can someone please refresh my memory. When this case first broke, I thought it was said that GGPa had been to that campground before but that IR had not. Does anyone else recall that?

When this case first broke, we didn't even know who GGPA's friend was, for the longest time. JM and VDK didn't even mention him a single time in their first interview. It was so weird.

 

[Sillybilly]

I had read here that it was one of GGP's favorite spots which is what prompted the trip. None of the others had been there afaik. Sorry, no link.

That's my recollection too but I wish I could find those early posts. I'm just wondering how IR would know where the fishing spots were to show the others when he hadn't been there before (unless GGPa and IR had arrived early enough the day prior and GGPa had shown IR then?)

 

[renarde]

That's my recollection too but I wish I could find those early posts. I'm just wondering how IR would know where the fishing spots were to show the others when he hadn't been there before (unless GGPa and IR had arrived early enough the day prior and GGPa had shown IR then?)

I just thought GGPA and IR had found those fishing spots earlier that day... maybe while the others had gone to the store in Leadore.

 

[KatieLiz]

Going back to the vehicles (just for something I'm thinking about): can somebody please clarify for me, GGP had driven a Suburban and a trailer? What vehicle did VDK and JM/A drive up? I know I used to know this but have forgotten.

 

[Sillybilly]

I just thought GGPA and IR had found those fishing spots earlier that day... maybe while the others had gone to the store in Leadore.

IR doesn't mention that as part of what he/they did that morning. According to IR, he got up and went to bathroom, went back to bed, then they maybe had breakfast and he went back to bed and didn't wake up until later when JM, VDK and Deorr were going to the store.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...round-10-July-2015-27&p=12687566#post12687566

 

[Makara]

I totally agree, ID Tater, the timeline is a mess.

When IR's recent (3 part) interview is dissected, there is a long period of time when IR doesn't see VDK or little Deorr. He doesn't specifically come out and say it (actually he avoids saying it), but between the trip to the store and VDK checking the cattle gate, IR does NOT have eyes on either VDK or little Deorr.

And, yes, did JA start fishing? In her interview (one-year video) she says she drops her fishing pole. How did they have time to fish/arrange fishing gear in this timeline?

And then there's this bold part:
IR: Me and Bob searched the immediate area up there for a little bit. His mom came from – I don’t know – she was out in the sage brush looking – and she came back to camp and I talked to her a little bit and I said, “What, what’s going on here?” Like “He’s missing.”
SR: Did she seem upset?
IR: Yes, she seemed pretty upset – I couldn’t really look at her in the face or anything – she hasn’t been able to do that for a wh - I don’t know for what reason.

It screams "shame" to me - she should be making eye contact and pleading with everyone to help find her son.

BBM: What IR actually said was "Yes, she seemed pretty upset...I, - couldn't really look at you in the face or anything. She hasn't been able to do that for a wh...I don't know for what reason.".

PART 2: Isaac Reinwand describes what happened when DeOrr went missing.
https://youtu.be/hrzdY1ck3Zk

And I agree, it does scream of shame or guilt IMO.

 

[Makara]

IR cannot give a definitive answer about actually seeing little DeOrr when they were all heading to the creek after returning from their trip into town. His answers are ambiguous and confused. IMO IR was led to believe that DeOrr was alive and well at that stage but I'm leaning towards little DeOrr being already deceased and disposed of by then.

IMO whatever happened to little DeOrr happened during the course of the Thursday night or the early hours of Friday morning. Nothing has been mentioned as to whether any of them left the campground during the night but I think that is highly likely. If something happened to DeOrr in his parent's vehicle or close by, and one of them left the campground in the early hours, the other would know. How could they not know? By the same token IR and RW may not have heard a thing if they were sleeping 'heavily'. I'd personally like to know what VK. JM and RW were doing when IR went back to bed and slept till midday.

In a nutshell I don't think that IR has a clue as to what actually happened to little DeOrr and is only telling it like he remembers it. And there is no descriptive memory of him seeing little DeOrr heading to the creek with his parents.

PART 2: Isaac Reinwand describes what happened when DeOrr went missing.
https://youtu.be/hrzdY1ck3Zk

 

[neesaki]

WOW...

I believe I am within TOS to post this, if not please delete.

So that video that Klein shared on his Facebook, with the interviewer telling Trina about GGPa's comments about "what's done is done". There is a VERY interesting comment by "K H-F" with replies by a "GW". Things that make you go "hmmm...??!!!!"

Very interesting, I've actually had no problem all along believing that GGP had something to do with it. Especially now that LE has come out and said they can't clear any of the four that were at the campground. Maybe they reached that conclusion after that incident was reported to them. JMO

 

[neesaki]

When this case first broke, we didn't even know who GGPA's friend was, for the longest time. JM and VDK didn't even mention him a single time in their first interview. It was so weird.

Thinking back on that, I remember that JM and VDK had alleged that IR had disappeared for over an hour and no one knew where he was. Also, that when JM asked him if he'd seen little Deorr, he just brushed past her and didn't answer. Sorry, I don't have a link but it was on one of the earlier threads, IIRC. I think they didn't mention him in the interview because they suspected him and didn't want him to know. I myself have always had questions about GGP, and about IR as well. But they were never named suspects and couldn't really be discussed much. Now I wonder why LE doesn't go ahead and name them suspects given that they say they can't clear them.

I also have wondered if LE came down on the parents naming them suspects and all, if it was done to try to put pressure on GGP to talk. If so, it doesn't seem to have worked. What if it turns out the parents are completely innocent in this? JMO

 

[Roselvr]

BBM: What IR actually said was "Yes, she seemed pretty upset...I, - couldn't really look at you in the face or anything. She hasn't been able to do that for a wh...I don't know for what reason.".

PART 2: Isaac Reinwand describes what happened when DeOrr went missing.
https://youtu.be/hrzdY1ck3Zk

And I agree, it does scream of shame or guilt IMO.

I think IR is throwing some doubt back in their faces because he's being made to be the scape goat, that's probably the only reason he said that

 

[Deleted member 278]

That's my recollection too but I wish I could find those early posts. I'm just wondering how IR would know where the fishing spots were to show the others when he hadn't been there before (unless GGPa and IR had arrived early enough the day prior and GGPa had shown IR then?)

they arrived at the same time

 

[Makara]

I think IR is throwing some doubt back in their faces because he's being made to be the scape goat, that's probably the only reason he said that

Yes, I totally agree with you. What I was saying is that IR said that JM couldn't look him in the face, not that he couldn't look her in the face.

 

[Roselvr]

Yes, I totally agree with you. What I was saying is that IR said that JM couldn't look him in the face, not that he couldn't look her in the face.

I understood that, it really can't be proven, that's why I think he said it to throw it back at them.