ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #3

[gitana1]

What kind of wildlife do they have out at this particular campground?

Mountain lions, wolves, coyotes, rattlesnakes, bears.

I just spent entirely too much time researching predatory birds in Idaho and trying to determine if one could haul off a toddler. I've heard of bald eagles being able to swoop and grab small deer and stuff, so I wondered if that was a possibility... but after reading more I don't think it really is. It would explain why there was no smell/trace of him out of the campsite for the dogs to follow. He'd probably be too heavy though, right?

Someone posted a video of an eagle snatching a goat. But isn't tracking based on shedding skin cells? So even if an eagle could carry a child for long distances, the cells should fall to earth and be track able. Plus one would think he would scream.

 

[rkf]

I look forward to the day when those satellites in the sky that show my home to the world can also show what happens when children disappear.

It might sound like 'pie in the sky' but if we can send a man to the moon we can certainly watch over our children.

I know all about people and their rights to privacy but I will give up mine to find one missing child and what happened to them.

Too bad we can't "chip" our kids like we can chip our dogs! It could be removed when they turn 18. Would seriously cut down on the "Where are you?!" phone calls at 2 am between parents and their teenagers! It would be good for Alzheimer's patients, too. But I don't want to give up my right to privacy.

 

[rkf]

You know I am curious about that. I heard LE in Idaho say that he did not meet the criteria for the AA. However, with the Malik Drummond case for example: he supposedly "walked off" from his home with both father and step mother present in the home. There was no witness to an abduction, no vehicle description or license number .......nothing. They issued the Amber Alert the same day that he was reported missing and it is still an active AA. Why is there a difference in the missing person situations. I can't wrap my head around that. Please offer me some insight into why some children would get this wonderful resource and others would not.

I believe it has to be issued within 12 hours, so if they were treating this as a child who wandered off, rather than an abduction, during that time, they may have missed the window. JMO.

 

[gitana1]

<modsnip> How could the grandpa be both watching the child and thinking the child was w/ his parents at the same time?

He never said he was watching the baby. It is clear he thought they had him and they thought grandpa knew he was to watch Deorr while they took a stroll. I think what happened is they never said specifically, "Watch Deorr", so when grandpa turned his head for a moment and then turned back and didn't see the baby, he assumed he went with, was taken by or caught up to his parents.

 

[Sillybilly]

Alaska Department of Fish and Game article on how much weight an eagle can carry. Sounds like about 6 to 8 lbs, so nothing remotely close to DeOrr's weight:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...cle&articles_id=343+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

 

[SuperTmo]

He never said he was watching the baby. It is clear he thought they had him and they thought grandpa knew he was to watch Deorr while they took a stroll. I think what happened is they never said specifically, "Watch Deorr", so when grandpa turned his head for a moment and then turned back and didn't see the baby, he assumed he went with, was taken by or caught up to his parents.

Sorry, that was in reference to a quote from an article that someone posted that wasn't allowed to be posted so it was edited by the mods. I was responding directly to a quote that poster put in their post, but its been deleted. I also said the statement made no sense at the beginning of my post.

 

[gitana1]

I believe it has to be issued within 12 hours, so if they were treating this as a child who wandered off, rather than an abduction, during that time, they may have missed the window. JMO.

I just looked at the Idaho amber alert criteria and not only that, they would have to KNOW he had been abducted in order to trigger the alert and have enough info that could lead to locating him should an alert be issued, apparently: https://www.isp.idaho.gov/BCI/documents/AMBER ALERT ACTIVATION CHECKLIST update.pdf

Also, I think it would be impossible for LE to believe an abduction took place yet withhold the info about it to the public.

 

[Mountain]

I have asked repeatedly about one car vs two and have not gotten a clear picture. Can someone answer this for us?

I am sorry but that information has not been released.

 

[verbonica]

Too bad we can't "chip" our kids like we can chip our dogs! It could be removed when they turn 18. Would seriously cut down on the "Where are you?!" phone calls at 2 am between parents and their teenagers! It would be good for Alzheimer's patients, too. But I don't want to give up my right to privacy.

You do know, don't you, that your pet's chip is not a GPS locator type deal. It only can identify them when scanned by a special machine if the pet is found.

The GPS ankle bracelets that ex-prisoners wear is a different thing. They are bulky and need to have batteries changed regularly. AFAIK the technology for implantable GPS locators does not exist yet.

 

[Sillybilly]

Someone posted a video of an eagle snatching a goat. But isn't tracking based on shedding skin cells? So even if an eagle could carry a child for long distances, the cells should fall to earth and be track able. Plus one would think he would scream.

<rsbm>

Don't know what to believe anymore. Couple of years ago there was a video that went viral of an eagle snatching a child. Turns out the video had been created as a student project ... was a total hoax:

WARNING: The following video is heart-stopping, but NOT TRUE:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...le-video-created-as-student-project-1.1268125

I do find it so odd though that the dogs couldn't get a good track. Am thinking it may have had something to do with DeOrr wearing the long pants and a hoodie, and someone else's cowboy boots. Very little skin exposed in order to shed cells, combined with someone else's scent.

 

[SuperTmo]

Mountain lions, wolves, coyotes, rattlesnakes, bears.



Someone posted a video of an eagle snatching a goat. But isn't tracking based on shedding skin cells? So even if an eagle could carry a child for long distances, the cells should fall to earth and be track able. Plus one would think he would scream.

In regards to shedding skin cells, I'm not sure how the dogs track. Would the cells have to be in very close proximity for the dog to follow the scent? Or is a few cells here and then 10 feet away another few cells enough for a dog to track? If the bird was flying maybe the shedding cells would be more spread out than if someone were just walking. I would most definitely think he would scream if attacked by a giant bird! I sure would. But I've read the creek was fairly loud, so maybe that would mask some sound. If the bird got him around the neck, that may limit sound too. I feel horrible even thinking of this possibility. Gross.

 

[rkf]

Twin Falls County deputies are headed to Lemhi County to help in the search for our little Deorr.

" Newman and Benefiel will be piloting the drones, Benson has a good knowledge of the search area, and Lt. Brown’s has vast experience leading search and rescue efforts."

(pictures included)

https://www.facebook.com/twinfallssheriff

I'm surprised that they brought in a different sheriff's office to fly the drones. My first thought was that the Bonneville and Twin Falls County LE was being asked to help in case of any leads/evidence in their geographical area, not at the campsite. Shows what I know!

 

[Elainera]

Mountain lions, wolves, coyotes, rattlesnakes, bears.



Someone posted a video of an eagle snatching a goat. But isn't tracking based on shedding skin cells? So even if an eagle could carry a child for long distances, the cells should fall to earth and be track able. Plus one would think he would scream.

bbm - and hairs possibly too?

 

[SuperTmo]

You do know, don't you, that your pet's chip is not a GPS locator type deal. It only can identify them when scanned by a special machine if the pet is found.

The GPS ankle bracelets that ex-prisoners wear is a different thing. They are bulky and need to have batteries changed regularly. AFAIK the technology for implantable GPS locators does not exist yet.

When my little girl is old enough to venture off without me I think the best I'll be able to do is require her to carry an iPhone that I can locate on iCloud. Assuming I ever let her venture off without me!!!

 

[Elainera]

I just looked at the Idaho amber alert criteria and not only that, they would have to KNOW he had been abducted in order to trigger the alert and have enough info that could lead to locating him should an alert be issued, apparently: https://www.isp.idaho.gov/BCI/documents/AMBER ALERT ACTIVATION CHECKLIST update.pdf

Also, I think it would be impossible for LE to believe an abduction took place yet withhold the info about it to the public.

bbm - can you elaborate on that? 'Impossible' as in 'not legal'?

 

[Elainera]

In regards to shedding skin cells, I'm not sure how the dogs track. Would the cells have to be in very close proximity for the dog to follow the scent? Or is a few cells here and then 10 feet away another few cells enough for a dog to track? If the bird was flying maybe the shedding cells would be more spread out than if someone were just walking. I would most definitely think he would scream if attacked by a giant bird! I sure would. But I've read the creek was fairly loud, so maybe that would mask some sound. If the bird got him around the neck, that may limit sound too. I feel horrible even thinking of this possibility. Gross.

bbm - I would surely think that 10ft apart won't pose a problem for a dog. They just sniff around until they find the next 'point'.

 

[verbonica]

In regards to shedding skin cells, I'm not sure how the dogs track. Would the cells have to be in very close proximity for the dog to follow the scent? Or is a few cells here and then 10 feet away another few cells enough for a dog to track? If the bird was flying maybe the shedding cells would be more spread out than if someone were just walking. I would most definitely think he would scream if attacked by a giant bird! I sure would. But I've read the creek was fairly loud, so maybe that would mask some sound. If the bird got him around the neck, that may limit sound too. I feel horrible even thinking of this possibility. Gross.

Here's a good overview about how they track and some of the difficulties they face:

https://houndandthefound.wordpress.com/2012/02/22/how-scent-and-airflow-works/

 

[rkf]

Thank you for this!

Do I understand correctly that they drove to camp, then realized they needed a few more things, so drove back the 8 miles/40 minutes they'd just come from? I understand it's one road, in and out, but did they pass the Leadore store (or any other store) on the way to the campsite, or did they come from a different direction? I would have to be missing something pretty important to go back out the way I came, so soon after arriving. We know they had phones, so would think if ggp and his friend arrived earlier and needed something, they would have touched base before the others started the long rocky drive to the campsite.

(modsnip)

 

[1&2&3]

Fkpollowing on the discussion on the nap time above, I brought a similar question up, and was told that Deoff did not go down for a nap before the parents went on their adventure. The nap was just an upcoming thing, it didn't happen before they left camp.

Just curious, were

 

[jmcgladr]

I suppose it isn't that heavy. I think for it to be possible for a bird to be able to grab something that big it would have to swoop down at full speed and just keep right on going in order to have the lift it needed to get its catch off the ground... It would need to happen in a fairly wide open space. I can't imagine an eagle would be able to carry him far, but maybe he got dropped in a tree and could be fairly nearby without being noticed.

I am not a bird expert, but I have an ornithologist in my family, and I am pretty familiar with bald eagles, the type of eagles that live in Idaho. They are not very large as far as eagles go, and they belong to the family of "fish eagles," meaning that fish are their preferred prey. When fish are scarce, they may feed on carrion and injured waterfowl, but they would not be able to move a full-size deer carcass or some such, only pieces of it. I have never, ever heard of an bald eagle picking up a human or anything remotely close to a human (even a small human) in size - the prey they would be capable of carrying would be no larger than a large fish or a duck. There are larger eagles elsewhere in the world that can pick up monkeys, but not bald eagles. I very much doubt that a bald eagle could have carried away Deorr, a child twice the weight of the largest of the female bald eagles (the bald eagle's size range is 8-9 lbs for males, and 10-14 lbs for females).

http://www.oiseaux-birds.com/article-fish-eagles-feeding-behaviour.html
http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/wildlife/nongame/leafletBirdsPrey.pdf

If any wild animal took Deorr, it would likely be a mountain lion, IMO. A toddler is well within the size range it could easily catch.