ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #8

[rkf]

Someone had asked for the link earlier where the sheriff said it was a local woman who was scattering cremains in the search area.


"It's pretty disappointing," Bowerman said during the HLN interview. "Someone was depositing human cremains up there while we're searching the area. It contaminates the reservoir and the entire area."
https://ksltv.com/index.php?nid=157&sid=35592900&comments=true



There is no evidence suggesting DeOrr was abducted," the sheriff said.
Bowerman said search dogs had shown an interest earlier this month in a reservoir, but that it was later learned a local woman scattered the ashes of a cremated loved one into the water, misleading the cadaver dogs. http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/31/us-usa-idaho-toddler-idUSKCN0Q52OP20150731

Thank you! I was looking for the article that said the woman was on the other side of the reservoir and didn't know about the search.

 

[rkf]

Thanks, but that could also be taken as he needs it with him 24 hours a day. IMO

Could be, but that's not what TBC said. She said he is on oxygen 24 hours a day. Maybe she misspoke.

 

[bluesneakers]

I got the feeling that they saw he was playing happily so they quietly took off. I am not sure they even told GGP what was going on because they didn't want the baby to make a fuss. And it was possibly a fatal mistake. :cry:

I might have assumed it because that's what I'd do, and DK had a such dad voice when he said it. In the interview neither one of them were very precise with their language so imo some of it seemed vague. Maybe they did say something, maybe they didn't, but they were clear about seeing him there.

 

[rkf]

Thanks for posting. I am going to jump off your post here about the cremains.

I don't know why people are so freaked out about hearing someone spread some ashes of a loved one over a beautiful place. It happens all the time and will become even more frequent as more people choose cremation over burial in the future due to cost and other factors. People have been spreading ashes over water and over pastoral scenes for eons, but in this case it happened to affect a search. Nothing sinister. Nothing out of the normal. Someone simply chose a day to honor their loved one in probably their favorite fishing place on earth and it was all done quite innocently. Yes, it affected the search and confused the cad dogs. Yes, it would have been better if it had not happened. But it really was just a chance thing not a planned thing, imo.

You're probably right. But if I wanted to honor my loved one and I lived locally, if I drove up to find 200 people, dogs and LE scouring the area, I would turn back around and come back another day. It seems kind of perfunctory to just walk up to the reservoir and dump a box of cremains in the midst of a search for a missing child - would lack the peace and solitude that makes that particular place special IMO.

 

[Deleted member 718]

Another confirmation of Sheriff Bowerman owning a funeral home.

"In 2003, Lynn met his soul mate, Tammy and they were married in 2005 when he relocated to Salmon and started at the Sheriff ’s Office. On July 26, 2010, Lynn was proudly appointed Lemhi County Sheriff.

Lynn and his wife Tammy also own Jones & Casey Funeral Home, and have raised four children in Salmon where Lynn has dedicated his professional career to serving and protecting his fellow citizens."

http://www.lemhiweb.com/content/lynn-d-bowerman-running-sheriff

 

[katydid23]

In the PI's interview with NE, after saying he thinks DeOrr was kidnapped and could be anywhere, Vilt says his advice to the parents was to cooperate fully and have hope - nothing about going on national television to get the child's photo and information out. He did talk about rumors being hurtful to the family, though.

My good friend's 15 yr old daughter left a note one night saying she was 'hitching to SF to find her father.' She had not seen him or spoken to him since she was 6, and more recently, he was a homeless heroin addict. My friend had to open up a lot of skeletons in her closet to reach out to people to help find her daughter. She saw a lot of people criticizing her when she opened up about her situation. Did that stop her from trying to get info about her girl out to the public? NO...it did not. She could not care less what people thought at the time. All she wanted to do was get the picture and info out there. We sent it to truckers and truck stops and gas stations and rest stops and the CHP. -----WHO CARES if people talked badly about the mom for marrying a junkie when she was 19?

[ her daughter was found safe and sound hiding at her friends house 2weeks later . She never even left Ventura County.]

 

[Mickshawn]

Well, it's likely, actually in my mind much more than likely, more like probable. But, then where is DeOrr? If he's not in the water, then where?

Maybe "handed off" to somebody else? Perhaps he offered to walk DeOrr to go find his parents..??

 

[rkf]

SS... it is a hot topic because the parents and the PI feel he was ABDUCTED. Remember the kids on milk cartons? they gave DESCRIPTIONS. This poster has a description saying blue eyes.. If i was in the store and saw a kid that looked like Deorr I would rule it out based on the eye color..blue/vs brown. Hair can be dyed.. the eyes will remain brown.. You think this is a recovery effort at this point.. that the body is somewhere.. the parents do not.. so get the right info out there.. jmo

Even if it is a recovery operation, if a body matching DeOrr's description is found, depending on its condition, wouldn't the ME check eye color for a match? (Could be immaterial at this point.) NAMUS says dental information/charting is currently not available and for DNA initial inquiry underway, so identifying a body as DeOrr would not be easy or quick, especially if it turned up far away. I'm also thinking his fingerprints may not be on file, as they're not available per NAMUS. Maybe LE can pull some prints from his cup or another item?

 

[rkf]

Before they left DK talked to little DeOrr about staying back and being good with GGP. That left me with the impression his parents had eyes on him before they headed out for their walk.

Oooh, do you have a link for that? I hadn't heard those details. TIA

 

[rkf]

[/B]

BBM - Just when I thought there couldn't possibly be more freaky coincidences... jmho

I guess that explains how the sheriff was able to track down the person with the ashes pretty quickly. He probably did the cremation. Holy cow this is the strangest story...

 

[rkf]

I wonder if DK took off in his truck while JM called 911 from the camp ground, not only to get better phone reception, but because he suspected the child had been abducted and hoped he could catch them. I further wonder if he may suspect who took him.

Sheer speculation, no facts

Do we know that when DK and JM went exploring that they did so on foot? Could they have taken the truck or the ATV?

 

[rkf]

That's certainly an interesting thought. My problem with that theory is this: If that were the case, wouldn't they have given the info to LE as to who they suspected? LE would have been all over that instead of spending all the resources, money and time searching the camping area.

I don't think the family embraced the kidnapping theory until August 13th, when no trace of DeOrr was found at the campground. JMO

 

[rkf]

Wow. So he and ggp were left with DeOrr, he says DeOrr wandered away (presumably to find his parents) and he goes fishing at basically the same time? Was he at the campsite when LE showed up?

It almost seems too obvious a scenario that he would take the boy when the parents left. If he had the opportunity and means (time/transportation) to take DeOrr away it seems like he would be graduated to suspect.

Interesting in his interview he said "I'm not supposed to say..." When being asked if DeOrr just wandered off.

Just thinking out loud.


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I think IR is the perfect fall guy. He looks like a pedophile out of Central Casting. He could have whacked DeOrr over the head and threw him in the back of his truck before the parents returned. Then he could have driven off to dispose of the body in the first hours of the search. I don't think that's what happened, but it would make a good story/reasonable doubt. JMO

 

[Mickshawn]

Right. And if he had been sitting right there with GGP, then he would have had 'first hand' knowledge that the child just disappeared. Which is what GGP reportedly has said. So it seems odd to me that IR distances himself from that answer by saying 'AFAIK. '



Wouldn't he have said 'we were sitting there and the boy was playing with his trucks, then suddenly he vanished.' That is GGP's version of events.

Didn't dad say the area was open and you could see all around? Even if DeOrr was hanging with GGP at the fire and got up and started walking (If so, I'd assume he'd be wanting to find his parents), you'd still be able to see him for a few minutes, right? "Hey DeOrr!" you could call..."Where are you going?"..and you could catch up to him.

On another note, what exactly does "cleared" mean?

 

[kammiemc]

My good friend's 15 yr old daughter left a note one night saying she was 'hitching to SF to find her father.' She had not seen him or spoken to him since she was 6, and more recently, he was a homeless heroin addict. My friend had to open up a lot of skeletons in her closet to reach out to people to help find her daughter. She saw a lot of people criticizing her when she opened up about her situation. Did that stop her from trying to get info about her girl out to the public? NO...it did not. She could not care less what people thought at the time. All she wanted to do was get the picture and info out there. We sent it to truckers and truck stops and gas stations and rest stops and the CHP. -----WHO CARES if people talked badly about the mom for marrying a junkie when she was 19?

[ her daughter was found safe and sound hiding at her friends house 2weeks later . She never even left Ventura County.]

I have been there too. You quite literally have no shame when someone you love goes missing. It's kind of one of those "at any cost" things.

 

[Jules71]

At the time of the parents' interview, they were not even acknowledging that anyone other than they, DeOrr and ggp were at the campsite. So it's hard to know if they also asked IR or if IR was with ggp when they returned.

So bizarre. If IR was there with DeOrr when the parents left, why on earth wouldn't they mention that he was gone (as was DeOrr) when they returned? Why are they downplaying (not even acknowledging) his existence at the camp? The only possible reasons I can think of involve the parents not wanting the public pressing into what IR knows.

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The only reason I can think of for the parents not coming right out and mentioning IR is that they may have suspected him and made those concerns clear to LE who then advised them not to discuss IR while they investigated him.

As far as the cremains, I am even more baffled by that in light of what I learned today about who owns the funeral home.

Also, a poster had emailed Bowerman a few days ago and was told the RSO was not the local woman scattering the ashes.

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[babyback]

Didn't dad say the area was open and you could see all around? Even if DeOrr was hanging with GGP at the fire and got up and started walking (If so, I'd assume he'd be wanting to find his parents), you'd still be able to see him for a few minutes, right? "Hey DeOrr!" you could call..."Where are you going?"..and you could catch up to him.

On another note, what exactly does "cleared" mean?

In one breath he says that it's all open, but in the interview, he says that if someone was up the hill at the reservoir, they couldn't be seen looking down at the campsite.

 

[rkf]

Yourself or other sleuthers may recognise the following:



I wonder though if there is a possible conflict of interest around all these "coincidences" and whether it had any bearing on the (whole) investigation being handed over to the FBI?

Great quote! Who said it? Nancy Grace? I want to be able to use it later, so any info would be much appreciated!

 

[wondering25]

Even if it is a recovery operation, if a body matching DeOrr's description is found, depending on its condition, wouldn't the ME check eye color for a match? (Could be immaterial at this point.) NAMUS says dental information/charting is currently not available and for DNA initial inquiry underway, so identifying a body as DeOrr would not be easy or quick, especially if it turned up far away. I'm also thinking his fingerprints may not be on file, as they're not available per NAMUS. Maybe LE can pull some prints from his cup or another item?

trust me.. after 4 weeks in the elements.. there is nothing left to get eye color/fingerprints from. i guess you have never seen a decomposed body.. left in a home for a week in the August heat.. no face.. bugs. all body fluids have seeped out..Skin sloughs off.. and the odor would knock you out.. If they find his "remains" that is what they will find.. remains.. bones skin scraps etc.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_farm

 

[rkf]

That ^^^ scenario is where I have been stuck. Something along those lines. In my HYPOTHETICAL scenario, GGP is somewhat distracted and sitting by the fire pit. { probably no fire going though?]

Baby is sitting and playing with his trucks in the dirt, so parents think it is a good time for them to slip away, so they do it on the down low, so the boy does not get upset. So quietly that GGP does not even know he is in charge of the baby.

That leaves a small window of opportunity open for the family friend, to take over 'caring' for the boy. He could have scooped him up and gone into the woods with him for more than an hour. Just hypothetically speaking...

One rumor is that IR was fishing when DeOrr disappeared and the person who posted the rumor said she was surprised that IR said he was present when DeOrr disappeared (in his doorway interview). This is complete and total speculation as I cannot link to the source. I sure wish these statements would make their way into some MSM articles, even as rumors! At least we could discuss them as rumors and give them weight as we deem appropriate.