ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #8

[Jules71]

Thinking about the woman with the ashes, if she was on the other side of the reservoir (which I think I read too), would she be able to see the searchers? Where did the searchers park? I think 172b is the road up the ridge that you can look down from and see the entire area. IMO it's the road dad mentioned not knowing about.

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[renarde]

I found this interesting because it showed the Sheriff helping to solve a different missing person case. He asked for the FBI's help:
http://www.idahostatesman.com/2014/10/08/3417531_dismembered-skeleton-found-in.html?rh=1

 

[rkf]

Hi all, just catching up from last night...



from the Timeline:
Quotes from Tuesday, July 21st - http://www.localnews8.com/news/new-d...nz-jr/34281340
Sheriff Bowerman also confirmed that drones are being brought to the Timber Creek/Stone Reservoir area but doesn't believe they will be used in the search. Instead the drones will be used to document the area for evidence if a trial in connection to DeOrr's disappearance is ever convened.

The sheriff also stated that at this time he does not consider the parents to be suspects in the child's disappearance. He confirmed they did take a polygraph test but didn't know when or if the results of the test would be released to the public.



All I can think after all the searching.... :ufo:

LOL on the UFO. I love that emoji and hardly ever find a chance to use it.

My concern with the sheriff being indirectly quoted is that some reporters may have read "volunteered to take a polygraph" as they did take a polygraph. If a reporter asked the sheriff when the results would be released, he could say he didn't know when or if the results would be released without actually saying the tests had been administered. I'm not trying to overthink this, but I don't have much faith in MSM's interpretive skills. I want to hear it from the horse's mouth! BTW, I think once the FBI got involved, everyone probably did take polys, if they hadn't before, but I'd like to know when. If the people at the campsite were told they passed, I find it hard to believe they wouldn't share that information with SM and the public. JMO.

 

[Jules71]

I found this on a websire that says this is the campsite. Take it for what it is worth.

I don't believe that is the campsite as far as we've determined (the pic in my last post shows the campsite) but this picture does show the end of the reservoir closest to their campsite and it appears to be where several searches parked. Now my question, would the woman with the cremains on the other side of the reservoir be able to see all of the vehicles? I think so.

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[kammiemc]

Do we know that when DK and JM went exploring that they did so on foot? Could they have taken the truck or the ATV?

They said they went 50 yards, so doubting truck. Maybe ATV.

 

[rkf]

Within that hypothetical, then begs the question, was this person seen my GGF, and mom and dad immediately after they returned to the campsite?

I'm still stuck on the campfire/fire pit. Who calls an unlit fire pit a campfire?! I only think of a campfire as being a camp fire, not a place where a camp fire can be burned. :gaah: Okay. I'll try to get a grip and stop obsession over details. But back to statement analysis, we're supposed to listen to what people say, not interpret what they say to make sense to us. After DeOrr disappeared, I saw that at the family's camp a mile away they had a fire going, so I don't think it's unlikely they actually had a camp fire on the 10th.

 

[rkf]

Hmmm.....That's a good question. Probably not, but still....."Things that make you go "Hmmmmm"!

Yeah, hearing that the sheriff owned the mortuary was the first time my conspiracy bells went off in this case. :crazy:

 

[babyback]

Yeah, hearing that the sheriff owned the mortuary was the first time my conspiracy bells went off in this case. :crazy:

I'm trying desperately not to go there.

 

[rkf]

You see, where my mind is going is, DeOrr is left with GGF, the friend goes off to fish. Where do you suppose a 2 1/2 year old is going to go? Would he sit and play, or would he follow along to fish?

But if IR was already fishing when DK and JM left, would DeOrr see IR way up at the reservoir and go to him? This was supposedly the day (within the hour) that DeOrr first met IR.

From the interview:
DK: This little boy he's a goer and a mover but he's not, he does not go away from his parents. He does not...
JM:Yeah he's very attached to us.
NE: So this is very unusual.
DK: Very, very unusual, sir.

DeOrr doesn't go away from his parents, but what would he do if his parents went away from him? I don't think ggp knew DeOrr was with him and I don't think he saw the baby toddle after his parents. (That was reported by a family member who wasn't at the campsite.) When DK asks ggp "Where is, you know, where’s little Deorr?” he, immediately shocked he says “I thought he came up to you.” If DK casually strolled up to the campsite/fire pit and asked about DeOrr, would the ggp immediately be "shocked" or would he be befuddled and confused, since he was never told he was in charge of the baby? I think shock would come when he figured out the baby had been with him without him knowing and now wasn't anywhere to be seen. For me, I think it would take me a second to be sure the person asking wasn't pulling my leg, and then, that I understood what was going on. JMO

http://pdfsr.com/pdf/parentsofdeorrkunztranscript.pdf
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/uncut-entire-interview-with-parents-of-deorr-kunz/

ETA: I am assuming if IR was fishing, it was at the reservoir because that creek doesn't look like it would be very good fishing. JMO.

 

[rkf]

The whole investigation was not handed over to the FBI. Unless I've missed a report, the sheriff's office is still the lead on the investigation. FBI, as is often the case, came in to assist, and is processing evidence. That's not out of the norm.

Correct. Local LE did not hand over the investigation.


Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman says all the evidence regarding missing toddler DeOrr Kunz has been turned over to the FBI.

http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/DeOrr-Kunz-Missing-Idaho-321484631.html

 

[babyback]

I don't think it happened exactly that way. But he did reportedly sleep in a tent. So he could have taken the little guy in there with him. Or taken him into the woods?

I would really think it important to know, where the dogs first began going up the hill to the reservoir, since we know from dad that indeed the reservoir was on to of the hill. If they began tracking DeOrr from the campsite TO the reservoir that would cause me to feel that's the way he either went or was taken. Those cremains are the big problem, because those dogs could have and probably did smell them from the campsite.

What a mess........

 

[rkf]

If IR was gone, along with DeOrr, when the parents returned, the parents must have immediately suspected that he did something to the boy. (I mean, this guy is something else.) I do wonder how the parents/family could keep themselves from letting on to their suspicions in the interview and elsewhere.

Depending on how long IR was gone "fishing" he could have jumped in the car and taken DeOrr anywhere.


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I don't understand how they were able to keep from even mentioning he was on the trip with them! (In their interview and until SM outed the information IIRC)

 

[ILOKAL]

You're probably right. But if I wanted to honor my loved one and I lived locally, if I drove up to find 200 people, dogs and LE scouring the area, I would turn back around and come back another day. It seems kind of perfunctory to just walk up to the reservoir and dump a box of cremains in the midst of a search for a missing child - would lack the peace and solitude that makes that particular place special IMO.

Something the sheriff said (and I can't find it) indicated he didn't see the woman there and she didn't see the search party. Isn't the reservoir pretty big? I think we're just assuming she spread the ashes right where the search was ongoing and I don't think that's the case. But, I'll have to call it MOO because I can't find that comment by the sheriff. It may have been an interview. Don't recall, but I read it here.

 

[ILOKAL]

I found this on a websire that says this is the campsite. Take it for what it is worth.

What a beautiful area. What are the two bodies of water in the picture?

 

[4senthia]

IMO it wouldn't take a genius to realize cremains would throw the search dogs off. Every variety of them.
This is a very strange case with a whole lot of creepy overtones.
I'm not accusing anyone. I just know that Bowerman said the female RSO wasn't the one spreading the cremains. I find that questionable myself, but whatever.
Cremains aren't that difficult to acquire.
I know this as a retiree from funeral service.
There is a bunch of obfuscation going on here and I'm not sure why.
Religious beliefs won't explain it, especially if they aren't very deeply ingrained to start with. Most of those I know who live that way every day don't do open social media.
They just don't. Or they have inspiring messages for the public only.
Something is very much amiss.
Every scene has @least 4 dimensions. We look up as well as down and sideways. I think something will come to pass fairly soon to cause closure. And I use that word lightly.
All just my own silly opinion

 

[babyback]

Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman tells HLN they just learned that someone had been dumping human cremains in the reservoir, and that very well could be the smell the dogs picked up on.
“It’s pretty disappointing. Someone was depositing human cremains up there while we’re searching the area. It contaminates the reservoir and the entire area,” says Bowerman.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-family-fear-abducted

 

[rkf]

Well let's think about this then. He would have needed to already have a plan, not hurt DeOrr so that there wouldn't be any blood trail. Come back to the campsite for the car truck or camper. Thinking out loud, forgive me.

Does anyone have the description of the blue pick up truck and where they first heard about it? Could this be it, hightailing it out of the area on Saturday morning at 7:16 am?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1bg7vzg3mm5b6qw/Screen Shot 2015-07-11 at 7.16.02 AM copy.png?dl=0
http://www.wunderground.com/webcams/...e=20150711.mp4

What about this?
https://www.dropbox.com/home/DeOrr?preview=Screen+Shot+2015-07-11+at+14.46.02+PM+copy.png

 

[babyback]

Does anyone have the description of the blue pick up truck and where they first heard about it? Could this be it, hightailing it out of the area on Saturday morning at 7:16 am? View attachment 80065
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1bg7vzg3mm5b6qw/Screen Shot 2015-07-11 at 7.16.02 AM copy.png?dl=0
http://www.wunderground.com/webcams/...e=20150711.mp4

What about this? View attachment 80066
https://www.dropbox.com/home/DeOrr?preview=Screen+Shot+2015-07-11+at+14.46.02+PM+copy.png

You've just GOT to know that the FBI and local authorities are going over each and every picture from that traffic cam. At least I hope they are.

 

[rkf]

Unfortunately, it sounds from DK that the parents made ggp a caretaker (as well as IR) by default, by leaving DeOrr with the two men when they went exploring. It seemed a conscious decision by DK that DeOrr would be fine with ggp.

It seems like ggp had no idea he was in that position, and even if he did, would he have been capable? Doubt it!

IR is another story. Maybe he did know DeOrr was left with them. It scares me to think what might happen under IR's default caretaking.




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ITA, but one person deciding someone else is a caretaker does not make the other person a caretaker. Both people need to know they are caretakers, at one time or another, in order for there to be miscommunication between caretakers. Otherwise, it's one person assuming their child will be supervised by someone else if necessary, even though someone else doesn't know they are supposed to babysit. If I'm at the park and I see another mom with her kids, my kid playing with hers doesn't make her my son's caretaker. We would have to have a relationship where we each knew we were my son's caretakers, perhaps at different times, in order for me to assume she is the caretaker when I am not. Thinking my child will be fine playing with the other kids for a few minutes does not establish any nearby adult as his caretaker. Miscommunication between caretakers shares the blame between two (or more) responsible adults. I don't see where ggp was ever the adult responsible for DeOrr's well-being, during the camping trip or in the past. JMO

 

[skinnycat]

The black truck in post #288 is a Ford Explorer Sport Trac, I think it's a first generation model.

I think that the black truck that it shows at the make shift camp site of DK & JM is a Dodge Ram