ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #8

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

The first time I heard this interview I thought she was referring to the man being the filthy one.

Ditto

 

[skinnycat]

I wonder if any other cameras have been checked, there has to be other cameras between home and the campground.

I can only hope that the silence means that they are working on something,

 

[neesaki]

SillyBilly,
You may have missed the initial two posts from a poster questioning the exact word the clerk used, i.e. dirty versus filthy and questioning why folks were using the word filthy.

My post below was to simply provide exact verbiage as I had the statement/link available as to the specific verbiage used.








In response to your post above, I concur -- see my post from 7-29-15

TxJan1971
Although we can most likely "assume" it is the "child" who was dirty, I, too, can see where it could imply the "gentleman" was dirty. (see transcript below)
<snipped transcript as it is provided above>

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ground-10-July-2015-4&p=11966886#post11966886

My question back to you then is this:

If we are expected to believe the "man" was the one that was "really filthy" and the "man" was "buying Deorr candy," is it still the "man" then who was "bawling in a black truck???"
or are we supposed to jump back to believing that part is talking about Deorr because it makes the most sense even though we don't really know?

JMO IMO
I will add, however, that although I reserve the right to change my mind, I'd still bet the farm the clerk was describing the "bawling" child as "really filthy" and not the man. I base this on my intuition, photos available of Deorr, he was allegedly last seeing playing with GGP by the campfire, he was camping outdoors, he's a little boy and my experience with little boys is they don't mind getting dirty or filthy, and he was alleged to have been playing with a truck, which IMOO, he "may have been" playing with on the ground, near a campfire, on the ground, etc. etc.

Unfortunately, almost everything about this case is just an opinion due to lack of facts or follow-up clarification. The only thing we can really go on (IMO) are words coming directly from someone's mouth, as everything else is subject to interpretation or reporting accuracy or even errors made in transferring information from one source to another.

I don't think anyone reads it as the man being the one who was bawling in the black truck. Notice that "and he was just bawling" and "in a black truck" are separated by a comma which makes at least that part of the statement clear enough, IMO.

Statement from interview:

JM (Mom): I just . . . Somebody at the store, um, in Leadore, said, it was one of the ladies that had worked at the store said that they saw, um, a gentleman and a younger blonde boy matching our description of our son, really filthy, buying candy for him and he was just bawling, in a black truck. That is the only . . .

The "filthy" part is somewhat ambiguous due to the fragmented structure of the statement. If we leave out everything that very clearly applies only to the child we end up with this:

...a gentleman... really filthy... was buying candy for him...in a black truck.

It can also help to take the statement and rewrite / restructure it for clarity, such as we did in the olden days of English grammar classes thus ending up with this:

...a really filthy gentleman in a black truck, was buying candy for him and he was just bawling. jmho

 

[kammiemc]

Bawling, perhaps?

I thought the PI's explanation for why an "innocent" man might be staring at him was kind of weird. He said something to the effect of maybe he had a child that died who resembled Deorr.

I know. Talk about rumors.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TeaTime]

I think everybody stares at little children because they are just so pretty it is hard not to look at them. The old man was just looking at a pretty baby boy. Nothing nefarious here.

Whoever it was that the clerk saw at 6 pm was not Baby DeOrr. We can be sure of it.

 

[wondering25]

I don't think anyone reads it as the man being the one who was bawling in the black truck. Notice that "and he was just bawling" and "in a black truck" are separated by a comma which makes at least that part of the statement clear enough, IMO.

Statement from interview:


The "filthy" part is somewhat ambiguous due to the fragmented structure of the statement. If we leave out everything that very clearly applies only to the child we end up with this:

...a gentleman... really filthy... was buying candy for him...in a black truck.

It can also help to take the statement and rewrite / restructure it for clarity, such as we did in the olden days of English grammar classes thus ending up with this:

...a really filthy gentleman in a black truck, was buying candy for him and he was just bawling. jmho

Really? just listen to the interview.. any transcripts online were made by people here. Listen to the mother's words. Listen to the mom in the interview.. it is what it is. JMO Again, i say..no matter what any of us want to think, every word spoken, every action taken will be analyzed by LE, the FBI, and if there is ever a trial for any crime associated with this.. will be used by the prosecutor to bolster his case. The tape of the interview will be shown.. not typed out and corrected for commas. JMO

 

[ILOKAL]

I don't think anyone reads it as the man being the one who was bawling in the black truck. Notice that "and he was just bawling" and "in a black truck" are separated by a comma which makes at least that part of the statement clear enough, IMO.

Statement from interview:


The "filthy" part is somewhat ambiguous due to the fragmented structure of the statement. If we leave out everything that very clearly applies only to the child we end up with this:

...a gentleman... really filthy... was buying candy for him...in a black truck.

It can also help to take the statement and rewrite / restructure it for clarity, such as we did in the olden days of English grammar classes thus ending up with this:

...a really filthy gentleman in a black truck, was buying candy for him and he was just bawling. jmho

I agree 100% with everything you said, except about the comma. Since this is a transcript of the interview, we really don't know if that should be a comma or perhaps even a period, I don't " think". The "in a black truck" sounds like it might have been an afterthought. In any event, I think the only remark about the "young blond boy" was that he was "bawling".

 

[Onebest]

Just for the record even though JM said the words herself, I cringe every time I see "really filthy bawling baby". It brings up all sorts of images in my mind and if little Deorr got lost in the woods, that is probably how he was when he died....filthy bawling confused lost hungry exhausted etc. Poor baby.

Or Lost and then picked up by whoever this individual might be? Always seems a probable to me given the time frame as we are aware of it.

 

[Cardinal47]

The vastness of Idaho really throws people. I am in Pocatello & a regular outdoorsy person. If you drove straight into wilderness for an hour or two in most places, you would be pretty far off. Here, well, not really. The idea of the front vs. back country gets a little blurred. Vault toilets, vehicle access, as well as a place to get fries & a shower within 45 minutes isn't true
back country, but we're just spoiled!

Hello and welcome. I just wanted to say if I was meeting with a reporter I wouldn't ask any questions because the asking would surely put them on guard.

After a drink or two I might ask 'what's going on with the missing little boy'.

'Loose lips sink ships' LOL

MOO

 

[babyback]

I think everybody stares at little children because they are just so pretty it is hard not to look at them. The old man was just looking at a pretty baby boy. Nothing nefarious here.

Whoever it was that the clerk saw at 6 pm was not Baby DeOrr. We can be sure of it.

How can we be sure of it? I just want to hear you're reasoning. It may change my mind about a few things. TIA

 

[Cardinal47]

I feel like in every case, people talk about investigative reporters, but are they really that common for these stories? How many missing/murdered child cases are there where there is one (or more) reporters who is digging into the case and constantly providing updates and new information instead of LE handing it to them in the form of news releases and press conferences? I feel like in most cases, the amount and longevity of coverage really just depends on how long the parents and LE talk for. Once that stops, the media goes away, and don't really make much of an effort to keep the story in the news.

Courteney Stuart for The Hook Newspaper did a great job on the Morgan Harrington case. I always remember her.

http://www.readthehook.com/category/tags/morgan-harrington

 

[wondering25]

Bawling, perhaps?

I thought the PI's explanation for why an "innocent" man might be staring at him was kind of weird. He said something to the effect of maybe he had a child that died who resembled Deorr.

he had a dead child that reminded him of deorr and then went up the mountain and kidnapped him. the unspoken thought was supposed to plant the idea that this staring old man, who in the PI's rich fantasy life, concocted a scenario where the man had a dead son that resembled Deorr and so he went up to the mountain later and kidnapped him.. Nuts.. JMO But see, this too will be used by a defense atty as trying to shed reasonable doubt if someone is arrested for a kidnapping/ murder. Well, there was this "sighting" bla bla..jmo

 

[Cardinal47]

Here's a thought. What if DeOrr Jr was in fact missing and then found and somebody was heading out of town with him.

That would explain a dirty, crying child. He was lost but now found.

I do find it strange that somebody kidnapping a child would stop by the local convenience store on the way out of town but stranger things have happened.

Perhaps they knew there were no cameras and no customers and they took a chance?

I wonder what else that man in the black truck with the crying child bought??

MOO

 

[wondering25]

I think everybody stares at little children because they are just so pretty it is hard not to look at them. The old man was just looking at a pretty baby boy. Nothing nefarious here.

Whoever it was that the clerk saw at 6 pm was not Baby DeOrr. We can be sure of it.

The parents have discounted the 6pm sighting. the PI said they were in the store and bought french fries.. so far, no clerk has come forward to say anything about any other confirmed sighting besides the really filthy, bawling blonde boy and a man in a black truck.

Was the baby EVER in the store at any time? A question to ponder. jmo

 

[neesaki]

Really? just listen to the interview.. any transcripts online were made by people here. Listen to the mother's words. Listen to the mom in the interview.. it is what it is. JMO Again, i say..no matter what any of us want to think, every word spoken, every action taken will be analyzed by LE, the FBI, and if there is ever a trial for any crime associated with this.. will be used by the prosecutor to bolster his case. The tape of the interview will be shown.. not typed out and corrected for commas. JMO

Yes, really I listened to the interview before ever reading the transcript, my opinion remains the same regardless.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

he had a dead child that reminded him of deorr and then went up the mountain and kidnapped him. the unspoken thought was supposed to plant the idea that this staring old man, who in the PI's rich fantasy life, concocted a scenario where the man had a dead son that resembled Deorr and so he went up to the mountain later and kidnapped him.. Nuts.. JMO But see, this too will be used by a defense atty as trying to shed reasonable doubt if someone is arrested for a kidnapping/ murder. Well, there was this "sighting" bla bla..jmo

Speaking of lawyers, I really really wish I soon her NG say, "Bombshell tonight!" and "Unleash the lawyers!"

 

[babyback]

Here's a thought. What if DeOrr Jr was in fact missing and then found and somebody was heading out of town with him.

That would explain a dirty, crying child. He was lost but now found.

I do find it strange that somebody kidnapping a child would stop by the local convenience store on the way out of town but stranger things have happened.

Perhaps they knew there were no cameras and no customers and they took a chance?

I wonder what else that man in the black truck with the crying child bought??

MOO

You know, human trafficking is always on my mind, even in cases with children. I suppose my thinking could be way out in left field, but honestly, a dirty child who may have been dragged thru the mud, put into a vehicle and couldn't be consoled is still a possibility as remote as it is. No one would be the wiser at a convenience store. I'm just trying to think outside my box a little bit today because if I stay where I am in my thinking, I could be missing something.

 

[neesaki]

I agree 100% with everything you said, except about the comma. Since this is a transcript of the interview, we really don't know if that should be a comma or perhaps even a period, I don't " think". The "in a black truck" sounds like it might have been an afterthought. In any event, I think the only remark about the "young blond boy" was that he was "bawling".

True, all we know is that there was a pause at that point in her statement.

 

[kammiemc]

Here's a thought. What if DeOrr Jr was in fact missing and then found and somebody was heading out of town with him.

That would explain a dirty, crying child. He was lost but now found.

I do find it strange that somebody kidnapping a child would stop by the local convenience store on the way out of town but stranger things have happened.

Perhaps they knew there were no cameras and no customers and they took a chance?

I wonder what else that man in the black truck with the crying child bought??

MOO

They might have had no choice to stop if they needed gas. The clerk said (as per what the parents said about the rumor) the man bought candy in the store.

But this whole thing is a bit of a head-scratcher. If a child was missing (no way to know from the start if he wandered off or was taken) wouldn't the sheriff have made immediately sure that the only local gas station/store employees knew to be on the lookout for a blond toddler. And if the clerk did indeed report that sighting to LE wouldn't they have issued an Amber Alert? Instead they're saying that there is no evidence to suggest an abduction. And even the PI has not brought up this rumor as a lead that the sheriff didn't follow up on. I'm thinking it goes nowhere--either was a completely false rumor, the toddler was another toddler or the clerk was remembering the Kunz family coming in earlier in the day (if they did).

 

[TeaTime]

How can we be sure of it? I just want to hear you're reasoning. It may change my mind about a few things. TIA

If the clerk recognized the child she saw at 6 pm as baby DeOrr, there would be a giant abduction investigation and an Amber Alert.

An old man staring at a pretty baby doesn't raise any flags for me. It is normal behavior and he is likely not a stranger in the area, so he was ID'd by LE. PI doesn't know who he is, but LE isn't telling him anything.

Just my opinion. Yours may differ.