ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #9

[Arnie M]

It doesn't take 10 min to walk 50 yards away, so actually they don't amount to the same thing. I can walk 1/2 mile in 10 min at a leisurely pace.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ground-10-July-2015-8&p=12006087#post12006087

 

[ILOKAL]

Hmmmm...I tried this, but it didn't work....Just bookmarking the page is good enough for me....I can easily find my last post, especially if I just jot it down somewhere.

I tried it and it worked for me. Then (I think) each time you have finished reading you have make a new bookmark and do the same thing then delete the old bookmark. I haven't tried doing it the subsequent time but I will when I leave.

 

[Hoosier952]

FYI - I don't think there are many ginseng hunters in Idaho. The plant is not native to that state.

On the other hand, I do agree with the statements made earlier about hunters in general being more acutely aware of their surroundings. The successful hunter has his or her senses in overdrive when out in the woods.

Ooops! :shame: Didn't even think about there not being ginseng there. Guess local ginseng hunters won't be of much assistance!

 

[ILOKAL]

​

Ooops! :shame: Didn't even think about there not being ginseng there. Guess local ginseng hunters won't be of much assistance!

I don't know if there's a group of mushroom hunters in the area but they would use the same close down careful eyes. We used to go mushroom hunting as a family when the kids were young. We'd come home and make spore prints and compare them to our guides. We realized just how many mushrooms you can find in a large variety if only you just look carefully. Without actually looking for them on the forest floor, you'd never even know they were there.

 

[ClaireNC]

Something is bothering me about the distances it was reported that each of the players were from each other. The sheriff says when asked about IR:

"Sheriff Bowerman:
1:08
(Using his hands to demonstrate)
“He was in the same general proximity. The creek…it’s just over the bank. Um, he’s downstream, they’re upstream. Uh, they’re all within probably (head nodding left to right) 100 to 150 feet of each other. “

That means they were all basically still within campsite area. I just don't see how a child could have disappeared if the facts we are being given are correct.

This map shows the distances from the campfire. https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=z2VLvG6QAl8U.kPHWqpKuC66g

For some reason I can't get images to post on here today.

 

[Arnie M]

FYI - I don't think there are many ginseng hunters in Idaho. The plant is not native to that state.

On the other hand, I do agree with the statements made earlier about hunters in general being more acutely aware of their surroundings. The successful hunter has his or her senses in overdrive when out in the woods.

Nobody said there was ginseng in Idaho

The topic was about hunters who find cold case missing people

 

[jmcgladr]

Just thinking about the debate about the distance/time the parents were gone... Both parents had cell phones and at least Jessica's had coverage at the campsite. Would it be possible for LE to subpoena the cell phone records and triangulate their location(s) for that time period? From reading this article, it sounds possible: http://www.iiiweb.net/forensic-services/cell-phone-tower-triangulation/. Thoughts?

 

[jmcgladr]

Just a comment on what you mentioned about "ginseng hunters"... How interesting that you mention that, as in the Dennis Martin case, there was a man that several years later after little Dennis disappeared, came upon skeletal remains of a small child. He was afraid to report it because he was hunting illegally for ginseng so didn't report finding the remains until several years later. By that time, the remains were no longer there and have never been found. My heart just goes out to that poor, sweet, precious boy and his family. I was so hoping for a better outcome in Deorr's case. Well, we will see. Maybe there's still hope.

OT but that pisses me off! How could anyone find a child's (or adult's) missing body and not report it? He wouldn't even need to say he was hunting ginseng - he could just say he was hiking! Or report the whole thing anonymously.

ETA: apparently that happened in the Dennis Martin case.

 

[Eileen730]

So, according to what Jessica's mom says, GGP WAS watching DeOrr and KNEW IT! It seems GGP saw that the parents were within eye sight when he turned away, but did the parents realize DeOrr might have been heading their way?? You'd think if they noticed him, they might be looking over their shoulders to check in every so often.

Don't u think they would have heard him.

 

[ILOKAL]

OT but that pisses me off! How could anyone find a child's (or adult's) missing body and not report it? He wouldn't even need to say he was hunting ginseng - he could just say he was hiking! Or report the whole thing anonymously.

ETA: apparently that happened in the Dennis Martin case.

I KNOW!! I find that SO reprehensible that it seems almost unbelievable to me, yet in the articles I read, including the link by neesaki (thank you) I haven't read that his story wasn't believed. He should have been charged with SOMETHING, imo, something far greater than illegal ginseng hunting.

 

[ClaireNC]

Nobody said there was ginseng in Idaho

The topic was about hunters who find cold case missing people

It was implied. Since it was brought into the conversation yesterday, there are certainly people here that were under the impression that there were ginseng hunters in Idaho.

Somebody else brought up mushrooms. I don't think mushroom hunting is very popular in that part of the state either.

 

[ClaireNC]

Just thinking about the debate about the distance/time the parents were gone... Both parents had cell phones and at least Jessica's had coverage at the campsite. Would it be possible for LE to subpoena the cell phone records and triangulate their location(s) for that time period? From reading this article, it sounds possible: http://www.iiiweb.net/forensic-services/cell-phone-tower-triangulation/. Thoughts?

Good question. I don't think cell phone tracking is precise enough to pinpoint an exact location, like 50 feet over here or 100 yards this way. I'd be interested to hear other people's thoughts on this.

 

[CatsInTheCradle]

Something is bothering me about the distances it was reported that each of the players were from each other. The sheriff says when asked about IR:

"Sheriff Bowerman:
1:08
(Using his hands to demonstrate)
“He was in the same general proximity. The creek…it’s just over the bank. Um, he’s downstream, they’re upstream. Uh, they’re all within probably (head nodding left to right) 100 to 150 feet of each other. “

That means they were all basically still within campsite area. I just don't see how a child could have disappeared if the facts we are being given are correct.

This map shows the distances from the campfire. https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=z2VLvG6QAl8U.kPHWqpKuC66g


For some reason I can't get images to post on here today.

And this is where I stay stuck!

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

Good question. I don't think cell phone tracking is precise enough to pinpoint an exact location, like 50 feet over here or 100 yards this way. I'd be interested to hear other people's thoughts on this.

I asked a while ago if his truck was equipped with OnStar. I don't know what make and model his truck is.

 

[pepelepolecat]

Good question. I don't think cell phone tracking is precise enough to pinpoint an exact location, like 50 feet over here or 100 yards this way. I'd be interested to hear other people's thoughts on this.

It would show where the calls pinged, but calls don't always ping off the closest towers, and if the towers are sparse (as I'd imagine they would be there), the information that would give would be minimal. BUT if there's a GPS tracker in the phone, that should give fairly detailed info. I think most if not all smartphones have GPS, but it can be deactivated, so even that isn't necessarily going to help (I'm also not sure if the GPS keeps a record of everywhere the phone has been).

Although now that I read over my answer, I'm not sure it was terribly helpful.

 

[wondering25]

In the link below, the reporter says that the family was asked to come down from the search area to idaho falls and just let the searchers do the searching. This was the night of July 13. Authorities asked all the volunteers to leave except for the professionally trained . Note shots of the running creek in the background.

http://www.localnews8.com/news/Family-holds-vigil-for-missing-toddler/34151958

 

[jmcgladr]

It would show where the calls pinged, but calls don't always ping off the closest towers, and if the towers are sparse (as I'd imagine they would be there), the information that would give would be minimal. BUT if there's a GPS tracker in the phone, that should give fairly detailed info. I think most if not all smartphones have GPS, but it can be deactivated, so even that isn't necessarily going to help (I'm also not sure if the GPS keeps a record of everywhere the phone has been).

Although now that I read over my answer, I'm not sure it was terribly helpful.

From what I've read, the reason cell phones can get re-routed to other towers in high cell traffic areas is that the server on the closest tower becomes overloaded. I would imagine this would not be a problem in rural Idaho - but sparseness of cell tower locations could be. I do think the GPS might yield some locations though, as you say. Not sure the parents would have thought to disable it, or known how. I am always losing my phone and using the "find my cell phone" app and it is pretty precise!

 

[ILOKAL]

It was implied. Since it was brought into the conversation yesterday, there are certainly people here that were under the impression that there were ginseng hunters in Idaho.

Somebody else brought up mushrooms. I don't think mushroom hunting is very popular in that part of the state either.

From the government sites I've read, mushroom hunting is very popular in the Salmon-Challis National Forest. Without certain permits, I think I read the hunters are limited to five gallons per day. I think one might have to cover quite a bit of ground to gather five gallons, but I could be wrong.

 

[ILOKAL]

It was implied. Since it was brought into the conversation yesterday, there are certainly people here that were under the impression that there were ginseng hunters in Idaho.

Somebody else brought up mushrooms. I don't think mushroom hunting is very popular in that part of the state either.

I have to disagree that it was implied. I read the posts that mentioned ginseng and nothing in them indicated or even implied that ginseng grows in Idaho. Also, the posts I read don't seem to indicate that "people here" were under the impression that there were ginseng hunters in Idaho. I might have missed a post so if I did you can re-post it.

 

[ClaireNC]

It would show where the calls pinged, but calls don't always ping off the closest towers, and if the towers are sparse (as I'd imagine they would be there), the information that would give would be minimal. BUT if there's a GPS tracker in the phone, that should give fairly detailed info. I think most if not all smartphones have GPS, but it can be deactivated, so even that isn't necessarily going to help (I'm also not sure if the GPS keeps a record of everywhere the phone has been).

Although now that I read over my answer, I'm not sure it was terribly helpful.

LOL, Your answer did help me. I had the same thought about the remoteness of the campsite and the sparseness of cell phone towers in the area. That would definitely impact the accuracy of pinpointing location via cell phone. You also raised another question that I have. Does cell phone GPS track everywhere the phone has been?