ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #9

[Mickshawn]

Is Websleuths.com a known and respected entity with LEs?

Just wondering how WS is viewed by them? Or are we all just talking to each other?

 

[Hatfield]

BBM

I want details too! :tantrum: I've come to the conclusion after following many cases here that LE doesn't have a clue that WSers need details. :doh: Here we sit, eager to help, and LE doesn't give us anything to work with! :websleuther: LE is gearing their comments toward the general public. :notgood: They just don't realize what a rare breed of detail-oriented problem-solving sleuths we are, waiting :waiting: with bated breath for the next update that might hold a clue to chew. :lookingitup: We don't get no respect! :gaah:

:whiteflag: Disclaimer: Please note that my tongue is firmly planted in my cheek.
I do share your frustration, but I just couldn't resist a little fun at our expense. :giggle:

Seriously, WS is an untapped and little-known resource. But LE has to protect the details of their investigation for little DeOrr's sake. As the saying goes "The Devil is in the details."

Thanks. LOL

We do need to keep a good sense of humor in a lot of these cases. Because the cases can be very depressing at times. I think it is wonderful to have a little humor every now and then to help us handle these cases.

 

[neesaki]

****

Deorr Kunz Jr Case
Missing: 7-10-15
Leadore, Idaho, Timber Creek Campground


RELATED DOG STATEMENTS & LINKS
Note: Work in Progress & subject to ongoing additions/edits

Disclaimer: A significant # of articles also contains videos that are not transcribed. These video sections may include similar or even different statements about “dogs” that are not included below. The statements below were all taken directly from the articles themselves.

***
Sheriff Bowerman:
1:38
“We did a…I think a very thorough investigation. We uh took two initial track dogs in. Uh, one of them being mine and one being Salmon Police Department. They’re trained to search for people who are lost. Um, they were given a scent. They went from the campground up to the reservoir and then back to the campground and we…we searched everywhere a small child could easily hide or climb into or fall into.”

Excuse me for thinking out loud, but I needed to go back to clarify, that the initial dogs used were track dogs specifically trained to search for people who are lost versus cadaver dogs. They did track Deorr's scent down to the reservoir and then went back to the campground. Which says to me he went down to the reservoir and maybe back to the campground? Now I wonder if the dogs followed the same scent trail back to the campground as the one they followed to the reservoir, or if it was a different scent trail .

 

[Hatfield]

Excuse me for thinking out loud, but I needed to go back to clarify, that the initial dogs used were track dogs specifically trained to search for people who are lost versus cadaver dogs. They did track Deorr's scent down to the reservoir and then went back to the campground. Which says to me he went down to the reservoir and maybe back to the campground? Now I wonder if the dogs followed the same scent trail back to the campground as the one they followed to the reservoir, or if it was a different scent trail .

Good catch there as I missed that part. I do wonder though if he means he took them up there and back rather than the dogs following an actual scent trail. Because it kind of contradicts the other statement in the other spot where it says the only area a scent was found was near the reservoir.

But you could be right that maybe they were just talking about the certain types of dogs.

The bottom line for me is its kind of confusing if the dogs picked up any actual scent "trail". I read all the other spots above that were nicely pulled together for us and it seemed to me that the only real "hits" were near the reservoir. This part that you found I think is not clear to me if they were following an actual scent trail or were just led up there by the handlers.

 

[kammiemc]

Thanks everyone. All the right questions are being asked and some good points being discussed.

Regarding the search dogs......I think this is saying that the ONLY area where dogs even got any scent at all is the reservoir and that was ruled to be the cremains from someone else.

So this is telling me that the dogs did not find any scent at the campground. The only reason they kept going back there is because they go to where the last "sighting" of him was reported.

Just my take on it.

"Wednesday, crews were searching near and in the water at Stone-Creek reservoir because it's the only place search dogs are picking up a scent."

"Statistically, you come back to the place last seen, which is right down there and you start over"

Wow. That would be very troubling if they are not picking up a scent at all at the campground. I wonder if they at least picked up a scent from the vehicles.

ETA: Catching up on posts, it still seems like it's not unclear whether the dogs picked up a scent at the campsite. I'm thinking they must have, based on the sheriff's confidence that the little boy had been there. But that's just an assumption.

 

[KYPastTracker]

Is Websleuths.com a known and respected entity with LEs?

Just wondering how WS is viewed by them? Or are we all just talking to each other?

I can only speak for myself, but my opinion is that WS has some very talented, educated, skilled, articulate members who are excellent at detecting and "ferreting" out the truth, especially when given some facts to work with. (And one doesn't have to put up with foul language and snarkinesss here either!) I have read on this site for years and have only just recently become a member due to a case that was close to home.

This is where the public goes if they want to know about a case so I find it hard to believe that there aren't some members of LE who check here at least once in a while! If I remember correctly, WS has even helped to solve a case or two where their help was acknowledged by LE (I don't remember the cases in particular or I would link them but imagine those members who have been here a long time will remember). I stand in awe of the sleuthing abilities and deductive reasoning of many WS members, and still usually just lurk due to feeling inadequate compared to the rest of you! Thanks, WS'ers for all of the time, thought, and genuine care that each of you give in attempting to help "crack the case"! Cheers to you all!:loveyou:

 

[Roselvr]

Hitting thanks was not enough! Very much appreciated!

*Note there are non working links; you should see if a mod can grab your main post out of a locked thread so you have the BB Code for next time. I back them up either in notepad or send it as a PM to myself

****

Deorr Kunz Jr Case
Missing: 7-10-15
Leadore, Idaho, Timber Creek Campground


RELATED DOG STATEMENTS & LINKS
Note: Work in Progress & subject to ongoing additions/edits

Disclaimer: A significant # of articles also contains videos that are not transcribed. These video sections may include similar or even different statements about “dogs” that are not included below. The statements below were all taken directly from the articles themselves.

***

July 10, 2015
Search Dogs
Lemhi County immediately initiated a search.
Responders included the Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office, Salmon Police Department, Salmon Search and Rescue, and Leadore EMTs. After a comprehensive search of the immediate area surrounding the campground, other resources were dispatched including divers from the Salmon Search and Rescue and Lemhi CSO, search dogs from Search and Rescue and Salmon PD, horseback resources from the Salmon and Leadore area and others. Other resources on scene include a helicopter, searchers on horseback, ATVs and many people on foot. http://pix11.com/2015/07/13/grandmother-of-missing-2-year-old-he-just-vanished/


July 13, 2015
Trained Search Dogs
SHERIFF REPORTS TO COMMISSIONERS 7-13-15 LMS
Sheriff Lynn Bowerman told the Lemhi County Commissioners Monday, July 13, that based on the intense and extensive search conducted near Leadore for two year old Deorr Kunz Jr., it doesn’t make sense that the boy was not found.

Bowerman said the trained search dogs found nothing and kept coming back to the camp. Helicopters were used day and night to fly the area and fly over Stone Reservoir which is shallow enough to see to the bottom. He said divers explored the lake while approximately 150 volunteers on foot and on horseback conducted a thorough three mile grid-search of Timber Creek. The possibility of abduction by bear, wolf or mountain lion is not being ruled out although no trace of the boy or his apparel, which included oversized cowboy boots, was found.

The small boy disappeared Friday, July 10, from the Timber Creek Campground at Stone Reservoir. Bowerman said Timber Creek terrain is steep and rugged and is a mix of sagebrush and timber. He said given the proven expertise of the dogs the boy should have been found the first day.

Commissioner Chairman Rick Snyder described the area where the family was camped as being at the lake’s outlet which is very steep with very fast moving water flowing through brush and trees and limbs, all of which were pulled apart by searchers. Bowerman said people in wet suits were in the creek searching every hole.

The search has been officially suspended. The sheriff said investigators from Bonneville and Bingham counties have offered assistance in further follow-up investigations into any possible criminal histories of those involved.
http://lemhiweb.com/content/search-recap


July 13, 2015
Search Dogs:
Lemhi County immediately initiated a search. Responders included the Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office, Salmon Police Department, Salmon Search and Rescue, and Leadore EMTs. After a comprehensive search of the immediate area surrounding the campground, other resources were dispatched including divers from the Salmon Search and Rescue and Lemhi CSO, search dogs from Search and Rescue and Salmon PD, horseback resources from the Salmon and Leadore area and others. Other resources on scene include a helicopter, searchers on horseback, ATVs and many people on foot.
http://pix11.com/2015/07/13/grandmot...just-vanished/


July 14, 2015
Search Dogs:
When police arrived they launched a widespread search for the tot spanning at least 2.5 miles. The rescue effort included hundreds of volunteers, helicopters, search dogs and the Salmon Search and Rescue and the Lemhi County Sheriff's Office.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz3g0308tN2


July 15, 2015
Dogs
After days of searching, investigators are backtracking to near the spot where Kunz went missing, the Stone Creek Reservoir.

"Statistically, you come back to the place last seen, which is right down there and you start over. We are using dogs a lot more right now," said chief deputy Steve Penner of the Lemhi County Sheriff's Department.

The dogs caught a scent near the water of the reservoir, and the sheriff's office says that is the only solid lead they have so far. Divers searched the area this afternoon but did not find the boy.
http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/911-call-for-missing-Idaho-Falls-toddler-released-315660311.html


July 15, 2015
Dog Units - Scent
Their plan now is to bring in a couple dog units to help pick up any scent the child may have left behind.

"Probably most of searching from now on is going to involve a K9 effort," said Penner.

Right now, the Lemhi County Sheriff's Office is still open to all possibilities. They plan to continue their search efforts with K9 units for at least the next couple of days.
http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local...unty/30162615/


July 15, 2015
Search Dogs
Wednesday, crews were searching near and in the water at Stone-Creek reservoir because it's the only place search dogs are picking up a scent.
http://www.localnews8.com/news/911-call-reporting-missing-toddler-released/34192558


July 15, 2015
Cadaver Dogs:
Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman told Dateline divers were searched the Stone Reservoir Wednesday after cadaver dogs indicated there may be more there to find. A comprehensive search of the 2.5-mile radius of the family's campsite has turned up no clues.

"We're starting to now focus on that area again, although we've searched near there initially and nothing of significance was found by the search and rescue team," said Bowerman. "Until we find him, we cannot rule anything out."
http://www.nbcnews.com/dateline/ida...ve-days-after-wandering-away-campsite-n392776


July 15, 2015
Scent Dogs:
Divers and others focused on the reservoir about 50 miles southeast of Salmon Wednesday but found no sign of 2-year-old DeOrr Kunz. On Tuesday, scent dogs led searchers to that section of reservoir — the second set of search dogs to show marked interest in that area, Lemhi County Sheriff's Office Chief Deputy Steve Penner told the Post Register.
http://www.idahostatesman.com/2015/0...#storylink=cpy


July 15, 2015
Search Dogs
The rescue effort included hundreds of volunteers, helicopters, search dogs and the Salmon Search and Rescue and the Lemhi County Sheriff's Office.
But they did not locate the child.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-campground-asks-leads-boy.html#ixzz3g0308tN2


July 16, 2015
Scent Tracking Dogs:
We have new information just released today from the Lemhi County Sheriff's Office. They say scent-tracking dogs led searchers to the banks of Stone Reservoir. This is the second time divers have searched the reservoir, which is shallow, small and clear.
and
From Video:
Video also states similar information about the dogs beginning about 0:30
http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local...dogs/30209081/


July 17, 2015
Cadaver Dogs:
Police divers have been methodically searching every square inch of the reservoir for the little boy after cadaver dogs indicated there may be something there. However, Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman tells HLN they just learned that someone had been dumping human cremains in the reservoir, and that very well could be the smell the dogs picked up on.
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07...-fear-abducted


July 20, 2015
Scent Dogs AND Cadaver Dogs:
Numerous resources, including helicopters, divers, side scan sonar, scent dogs, cadaver dogs, horses, ATVs, and over 300 people on the ground, were used to grid and search the reservoir, the creek, and the hillsides, with absolutely no sign of DeOrr.
http://www.localnews8.com/news/Searc...-back/34255568


July 21, 2015
Tracking Dogs
Despite intense efforts by searchers with tracking dogs on the ground and divers in the water, investigators have found no trace of the toddler, who disappeared during a family camping trip on July 10.
http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local...port/30466883/


July 21, 2015
Multiple Dog Search Groups
‘We’ve literally torn that country apart and found absolutely not one clue,’ Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman told FoxNews.com.

‘We conducted an exhaustive search of the area, which included eight agencies, multiple dog search groups and well over 100 people.’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-not-one-clue-whereabouts.html#ixzz3j1qlOpT6


July 22, 2015
Scent Dogs/Cadaver Dogs
They have used sonar imaging equipment to probe a nearby reservoir, searched a wolf den and Deorr’s parents have volunteered to take olygraph (lie detector) tests. Helicopters, divers, scent dogs, cadaver dogs, horses, ATVs and over 300 people on the ground have also been used to grid and search the reservoir, the creek, and the hillsides.
Deorr’s mum Jessica Mitchell suspects her son has been abducted.
http://www.news.com.au/world/north-...nz-jr-on-july-10/story-fnh81jut-1227452566998


July 23, 2015
Cadaver Dogs & Scent Dogs
In a DeOrr Kunz, Jr. update on the missing Idaho toddler's search, it was discovered that cadaver dogs were thrown off in their search of the little boy who went missing on July 10. Ever since DeOrr Kunz went missing, searchers have maintained their presence at Timber Creek/Stone Reservoir in Leadore, Idaho.

KBOI 2 TV reports July 2 that someone went into the area where they were searching and scattered a family member's ashes. The Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office says that this put scent dogs on the wrong trail. So, the smell of the remains that the dogs picked up, weren't remains of the missing Idaho toddler.

Search dogs led authorities to Stone Reservoir, but no trace of the missing toddler showed up. On Tuesday, the Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office scaled back their search. They report that the case is going in another direction. Searchers remain in the area, however.
http://www.examiner.com/article/deo...gs-thrown-off-search-of-missing-idaho-toddler


July 31, 2015
Search Dogs
Bowerman said search dogs had shown an interest earlier this month in a reservoir, but that it was later learned a local woman scattered the ashes of a cremated loved one into the water, misleading the cadaver dogs. There is also no sign the toddler was attacked by the bears, mountain lions and wolves known to roam the area, he said.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0Q52OP20150731


August 1, 2015
Cadaver Dogs
Searchers on ATVs, horseback, and the use of cadaver dogs have been utilized all over the area in an effort to find missing DeOrr Kunz, Jr. Even backcountry about 50 miles southeast of Salmon has been scoured. Divers have thoroughly looked for clues in Stone Reservoir waters, but nothing has turned up.
http://www.**************/2301205/d...dler-case-fbi-brought-in/#G6CMLU1vsfW84D34.99


August 18, 2015
Track Dogs

Nate Eaton:
“And, um, at this point were their vehicles searched, the tents, I guess everything out there was probably searched?”

Sheriff Bowerman:
1:38
“We did a…I think a very thorough investigation. We uh took two initial track dogs in. Uh, one of them being mine and one being Salmon Police Department. They’re trained to search for people who are lost. Um, they were given a scent. They went from the campground up to the reservoir and then back to the campground and we…we searched everywhere a small child could easily hide or climb into or fall into.”

Nate Eaton:
“But nothing…”

Sheriff Bowerman:
2:11
“And we found absolutely nothing.”

2:13
Nate Eaton:
“Talk a little bit about the cremains that were dumped into, because the dogs were getting a scent…”

Sheriff Bowerman:
“Right! Unbeknownst to us while we were doing our grid search, someone came in and wanted to deposit cremains of a loved one at that site, and I’m assuming it’s a favorite site of their loved one, and without thinking, they deposited cremains, not realizing they were in the middle of a crime scene and what it would do. Within a couple days our dogs were telling us we need to spend more time up at the reservoir, and so we dove it for 2-3 more days and put side-scan sonar, and then we find out from one of our BLM (?) Rangers that they stopped this individual coming out and were informed they had deposited some cremains in the reservoir.”
[video=youtube;FV-h82eVQ1M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV-h82eVQ1M&list=PLHxHvR1OFyNDkpZrKmKgKJCsujxaoOlUU[/video]

 

[kammiemc]

I think church-sponsored abduction is less likely than stranger abduction (per the sheriff's opinion). And given the nature of the FLDS, I think that the church abducting a boy is even less likely than a canary swooping in and making off with him leaving no trace behind.

I definitely agree that church abduction is not the "other direction" this investigation taking. Though I wish it were true.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TheGambler]

I can only speak for myself, but my opinion is that WS has some very talented, educated, skilled, articulate members who are excellent at detecting and "ferreting" out the truth, especially when given some facts to work with. (And one doesn't have to put up with foul language and snarkinesss here either!) I have read on this site for years and have only just recently become a member due to a case that was close to home.

This is where the public goes if they want to know about a case so I find it hard to believe that there aren't some members of LE who check here at least once in a while! If I remember correctly, WS has even helped to solve a case or two where their help was acknowledged by LE (I don't remember the cases in particular or I would link them but imagine those members who have been here a long time will remember). I stand in awe of the sleuthing abilities and deductive reasoning of many WS members, and still usually just lurk due to feeling inadequate compared to the rest of you! Thanks, WS'ers for all of the time, thought, and genuine care that each of you give in attempting to help "crack the case"! Cheers to you all!:loveyou:

Websleuths HAS helped solve cases. Read here. Especially the 2nd paragraph in with the light gray background.

http://www.poynter.org/news/mediawi...good-at-helping-law-enforcement-solve-crimes/

 

[neesaki]

Good catch there as I missed that part. I do wonder though if he means he took them up there and back rather than the dogs following an actual scent trail. Because it kind of contradicts the other statement in the other spot where it says the only area a scent was found was near the reservoir.

But you could be right that maybe they were just talking about the certain types of dogs.

The bottom line for me is its kind of confusing if the dogs picked up any actual scent "trail". I read all the other spots above that were nicely pulled together for us and it seemed to me that the only real "hits" were near the reservoir. This part that you found I think is not clear to me if they were following an actual scent trail or were just led up there by the handlers.

Good question, my initial thought from his statement is that it sounds as though the dogs picked up his scent at the campground and they followed it to the reservoir. On second thought as you say, did they get all the way to the reservoir before they picked up his scent? Or did they actually pick up nothing at all?
And if they picked up the scent at the reservoir, how would he have gotten there in the first place, I suppose from the campground.
About the time I think we may have some clarity it's about as clear as mud. Then again, perhaps that's exactly how LE wants it.

Sheriff Bowerman:
1:38
“We did a…I think a very thorough investigation. We uh took two initial track dogs in. Uh, one of them being mine and one being Salmon Police Department. They’re trained to search for people who are lost. Um, they were given a scent. They went from the campground up to the reservoir and then back to the campground and we…we searched everywhere a small child could easily hide or climb into or fall into.”

 

[SweetT]

I guess I was under the impression that the dog handlers took the dogs from the campsite to the reservoir searching for a scent, and when nothing was found they went back to campground to try again etc.
I also got the impression that at some point some dogs did hit on the reservoir but it was now only thought to be due to the cremains and not actually a body?

 

[rkf]

.

Infrared (Thermal Image) of the Boston Bomber hiding in a boat

There is a tarp covering the boat but his body heat shows through.

.

That is AWESOME!!! Thanks for posting!

 

[ILOKAL]

There are all kinds of statistics on hunting in the area on the fish and game website.

Here is the website:
https://fishandgame.idaho.gov/ifwis/huntplanner/ choose the Hunt Planner and check off the following options:
All Available
Any Weapon
2015 Season
choose Unit under question 4
then choose Unit 29 on the next page and choose View Hunt at the bottom.

It shows all the hunts that are available in that Unit.



Looking at the list of available hunts, If you click on forth column in any of the rows, (fourth from the left), where there are blue hyperlinks like "Unit 29" It will take you to a page that has statistics on hunting in that unit near the bottom of the page.

For instance, it says that in All 452,332 acres in Unit 29, only 911 hunters took 300 deer in 2014. There were 175 Elk hunters in the ENTIRE Unit 29 in 2014 and they took 107 Elk. In 2012, there was one Mountain Lion harvested by a hunter in ALL of Unit 29. In 2014 there were 14 bear harvested. There are no statistics for Wolves hunted in that area.

According to Sheriff Lynn Bowerman, mountain lions, bears, and wolves "are known to roam the area". In the link below, his statement is included in the last paragraph.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/31/us-usa-idaho-toddler-idUSKCN0Q52OP20150731

 

[TxJan1971]

REVISED 8/25/15: FIXED BROKEN LINKS

Deorr Kunz Jr Case
Missing: 7-10-15
Leadore, Idaho, Timber Creek Campground


RELATED DOG STATEMENTS & LINKS
Note: Work in Progress & subject to ongoing additions/edits

Disclaimer: A significant # of articles also contains videos that are not transcribed. These video sections may include similar or even different statements about “dogs” that are not included below. The statements below were all taken directly from the articles themselves.

***

July 13, 2015
Search Dogs
Lemhi County immediately initiated a search.
Responders included the Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office, Salmon Police Department, Salmon Search and Rescue, and Leadore EMTs. After a comprehensive search of the immediate area surrounding the campground, other resources were dispatched including divers from the Salmon Search and Rescue and Lemhi CSO, search dogs from Search and Rescue and Salmon PD, horseback resources from the Salmon and Leadore area and others. Other resources on scene include a helicopter, searchers on horseback, ATVs and many people on foot.
Link confirmed 8/25/15: http://pix11.com/2015/07/13/grandmother-of-missing-2-year-old-he-just-vanished/



July 13, 2015
Trained Search Dogs
SHERIFF REPORTS TO COMMISSIONERS 7-13-15 LMS
Sheriff Lynn Bowerman told the Lemhi County Commissioners Monday, July 13, that based on the intense and extensive search conducted near Leadore for two year old Deorr Kunz Jr., it doesn’t make sense that the boy was not found.

Bowerman said the trained search dogs found nothing and kept coming back to the camp. Helicopters were used day and night to fly the area and fly over Stone Reservoir which is shallow enough to see to the bottom. He said divers explored the lake while approximately 150 volunteers on foot and on horseback conducted a thorough three mile grid-search of Timber Creek. The possibility of abduction by bear, wolf or mountain lion is not being ruled out although no trace of the boy or his apparel, which included oversized cowboy boots, was found.

The small boy disappeared Friday, July 10, from the Timber Creek Campground at Stone Reservoir. Bowerman said Timber Creek terrain is steep and rugged and is a mix of sagebrush and timber. He said given the proven expertise of the dogs the boy should have been found the first day.

Commissioner Chairman Rick Snyder described the area where the family was camped as being at the lake’s outlet which is very steep with very fast moving water flowing through brush and trees and limbs, all of which were pulled apart by searchers. Bowerman said people in wet suits were in the creek searching every hole.

The search has been officially suspended. The sheriff said investigators from Bonneville and Bingham counties have offered assistance in further follow-up investigations into any possible criminal histories of those involved.
Link confirmed 8/25/15: http://lemhiweb.com/content/search-recap


July 14, 2015
Search Dogs:
When police arrived they launched a widespread search for the tot spanning at least 2.5 miles. The rescue effort included hundreds of volunteers, helicopters, search dogs and the Salmon Search and Rescue and the Lemhi County Sheriff's Office.
Link confirmed 8/25/15: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...daylight-Idaho-campground-asks-leads-boy.html



July 15, 2015
Dogs
After days of searching, investigators are backtracking to near the spot where Kunz went missing, the Stone Creek Reservoir.

"Statistically, you come back to the place last seen, which is right down there and you start over. We are using dogs a lot more right now," said chief deputy Steve Penner of the Lemhi County Sheriff's Department.

The dogs caught a scent near the water of the reservoir, and the sheriff's office says that is the only solid lead they have so far. Divers searched the area this afternoon but did not find the boy.
Link confirmed 8/25/15: http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/911-call-for-missing-Idaho-Falls-toddler-released-315660311.html


July 15, 2015
Dog Units - Scent
Their plan now is to bring in a couple dog units to help pick up any scent the child may have left behind.

"Probably most of searching from now on is going to involve a K9 effort," said Penner.

Right now, the Lemhi County Sheriff's Office is still open to all possibilities. They plan to continue their search efforts with K9 units for at least the next couple of days.
Link confirmed 8/25/15: http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/14/search-deorr-kunz-lemhi-county/30162615/


July 15, 2015
Search Dogs
Wednesday, crews were searching near and in the water at Stone-Creek reservoir because it's the only place search dogs are picking up a scent.
Link confirmed 8/25/15: http://www.localnews8.com/news/911-c...eased/34192558


July 15, 2015
Cadaver Dogs:
Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman told Dateline divers were searched the Stone Reservoir Wednesday after cadaver dogs indicated there may be more there to find. A comprehensive search of the 2.5-mile radius of the family's campsite has turned up no clues.

"We're starting to now focus on that area again, although we've searched near there initially and nothing of significance was found by the search and rescue team," said Bowerman. "Until we find him, we cannot rule anything out."
Link confirmed 8/25/15: http://www.nbcnews.com/dateline/ida...ve-days-after-wandering-away-campsite-n392776


July 15, 2015
Scent Dogs:
Divers and others focused on the reservoir about 50 miles southeast of Salmon Wednesday but found no sign of 2-year-old DeOrr Kunz. On Tuesday, scent dogs led searchers to that section of reservoir — the second set of search dogs to show marked interest in that area, Lemhi County Sheriff's Office Chief Deputy Steve Penner told the Post Register.
Link confirmed 8/25/15: http://www.idahostatesman.com/2015/07/15/3897072_search-continues-at-reservoir.html?rh=1


July 15, 2015
Search Dogs
The rescue effort included hundreds of volunteers, helicopters, search dogs and the Salmon Search and Rescue and the Lemhi County Sheriff's Office.
But they did not locate the child.
Link confirmed 8/25/15: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-campground-asks-leads-boy.html#ixzz3g0308tN2


July 16, 2015
Scent Tracking Dogs:
We have new information just released today from the Lemhi County Sheriff's Office. They say scent-tracking dogs led searchers to the banks of Stone Reservoir. This is the second time divers have searched the reservoir, which is shallow, small and clear.
and
From Video:
Video also states similar information about the dogs beginning about 0:30
Link confirmed 8/25/15: http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/15/missing-boy-deorr-search-dogs/30209081/


July 17, 2015
Cadaver Dogs:
Police divers have been methodically searching every square inch of the reservoir for the little boy after cadaver dogs indicated there may be something there. However, Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman tells HLN they just learned that someone had been dumping human cremains in the reservoir, and that very well could be the smell the dogs picked up on.
Link confirmed 8/25/15: http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-family-fear-abducted


July 20, 2015
Scent Dogs AND Cadaver Dogs:
Numerous resources, including helicopters, divers, side scan sonar, scent dogs, cadaver dogs, horses, ATVs, and over 300 people on the ground, were used to grid and search the reservoir, the creek, and the hillsides, with absolutely no sign of DeOrr.
Link confirmed 8/25/15: http://www.localnews8.com/news/Search-for-DeOrr-Kunz-scaled-back/34255568


July 21, 2015
Tracking Dogs
Despite intense efforts by searchers with tracking dogs on the ground and divers in the water, investigators have found no trace of the toddler, who disappeared during a family camping trip on July 10.
Link confirmed 8/25/15: http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...riffs-office-calling-in-air-support/30466883/


July 21, 2015
Multiple Dog Search Groups
‘We’ve literally torn that country apart and found absolutely not one clue,’ Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman told FoxNews.com.

‘We conducted an exhaustive search of the area, which included eight agencies, multiple dog search groups and well over 100 people.’
Link confirmed 8/25/15: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-not-one-clue-whereabouts.html#ixzz3j1qlOpT6


July 22, 2015
Scent Dogs/Cadaver Dogs
They have used sonar imaging equipment to probe a nearby reservoir, searched a wolf den and Deorr’s parents have volunteered to take polygraph (lie detector) tests. Helicopters, divers, scent dogs, cadaver dogs, horses, ATVs and over 300 people on the ground have also been used to grid and search the reservoir, the creek, and the hillsides.
Deorr’s mum Jessica Mitchell suspects her son has been abducted.
Link confirmed 8/25/15: http://www.news.com.au/world/north-...nz-jr-on-july-10/story-fnh81jut-1227452566998


July 23, 2015
Cadaver Dogs & Scent Dogs
In a DeOrr Kunz, Jr. update on the missing Idaho toddler's search, it was discovered that cadaver dogs were thrown off in their search of the little boy who went missing on July 10. Ever since DeOrr Kunz went missing, searchers have maintained their presence at Timber Creek/Stone Reservoir in Leadore, Idaho.

KBOI 2 TV reports July 2 that someone went into the area where they were searching and scattered a family member's ashes. The Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office says that this put scent dogs on the wrong trail. So,the smell of the remains that the dogs picked up, weren't remains of the missing Idaho toddler.

Search dogs led authorities to Stone Reservoir, but no trace of the missing toddler showed up. On Tuesday, the Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office scaled back their search. They report that the case is going in another direction. Searchers remain in the area, however.
Link confirmed 8/25/15: http://www.examiner.com/article/deo...gs-thrown-off-search-of-missing-idaho-toddler


July 31, 2015
Search Dogs
Bowerman said search dogs had shown an interest earlier this month in a reservoir, but that it was later learned a local woman scattered the ashes of a cremated loved one into the water, misleading the cadaver dogs. There is also no sign the toddler was attacked by the bears, mountain lions and wolves known to roam the area, he said.
Link confirmed 8/25/15: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/31/us-usa-idaho-toddler-idUSKCN0Q52OP20150731


August 18, 2015
Track Dogs

Nate Eaton:
“And, um, at this point were their vehicles searched, the tents, I guess everything out there was probably searched?”

Sheriff Bowerman:
1:38
“We did a…I think a very thorough investigation. We uh took two initial track dogs in. Uh, one of them being mine and one being Salmon Police Department. They’re trained to search for people who are lost. Um, they were given a scent. They went from the campground up to the reservoir and then back to the campground and we…we searched everywhere a small child could easily hide or climb into or fall into.”

Nate Eaton:
“But nothing…”

Sheriff Bowerman:
2:11
“And we found absolutely nothing.”

2:13
Nate Eaton:
“Talk a little bit about the cremains that were dumped into, because the dogs were getting a scent…”

Sheriff Bowerman:
“Right! Unbeknownst to us while we were doing our grid search, someone came in and wanted to deposit cremains of a loved one at that site, and I’m assuming it’s a favorite site of their loved one, and without thinking, they deposited cremains, not realizing they were in the middle of a crime scene and what it would do. Within a couple days our dogs were telling us we need to spend more time up at the reservoir, and so we dove it for 2-3 more days and put side-scan sonar, and then we find out from one of our BLM (?) Rangers that they stopped this individual coming out and were informed they had deposited some cremains in the reservoir.”
Link confirmed 8/25/15: https://youtu.be/FV-h82eVQ1M

 

[rkf]

There is only one road that runs in and out of the campground. That road splits into three when it enters the campground. The middle road leads to the campsite the family was using. The one on the west side goes to the reservoir and stops there. The one on the east side goes past the reservoir and up to the upper part of the campground. The place where the road splits into three is in full view of where they were camping. So even if somebody grabbed little Deorr near the reservoir, they would need to drive past the family campsite to exit the campground.

You might need to zoom out a bit, but you can clearly see it on this map, which has the place the family was camping represented by an icon of a campfire. The blue and red dots show distances from the campfire.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=z2VLvG6QAl8U.kPHWqpKuC66g&usp=sharing

Which is why it's strange that DK said he didn't know the other road was there. If he hadn't followed it, he might not know exactly where it went and what could be seen from there, but he would have had to pass it on the way out and back on the trip from the store on Friday. It was almost dark when they arrived on Thursday night, so it might have been harder to see. Would it have shown up on GPS? He'd never been there before, so how did he know exactly where to go unless they were traveling in a convoy, he had directions or used GPS?

 

[carbuff]

(snipped for focus, BBM)
Sheriff Bowerman:
“Right! Unbeknownst to us while we were doing our grid search, someone came in and wanted to deposit cremains of a loved one at that site, and I’m assuming it’s a favorite site of their loved one, and without thinking, they deposited cremains, not realizing they were in the middle of a crime scene and what it would do. Within a couple days our dogs were telling us we need to spend more time up at the reservoir, and so we dove it for 2-3 more days and put side-scan sonar, and then we find out from one of our BLM (?) Rangers that they stopped this individual coming out and were informed they had deposited some cremains in the reservoir.”

BLM is Bureau of Land Management, a Federal agency that owns vast swathes of the western states and leases them for things like grazing and mineral development. http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en.html

 

[ILOKAL]

Good question, my initial thought from his statement is that it sounds as though the dogs picked up his scent at the campground and they followed it to the reservoir. On second thought as you say, did they get all the way to the reservoir before they picked up his scent? Or did they actually pick up nothing at all?
And if they picked up the scent at the reservoir, how would he have gotten there in the first place, I suppose from the campground.
About the time I think we may have some clarity it's about as clear as mud. Then again, perhaps that's exactly how LE wants it.

There's so much available information on SAR dogs, but here is a brief overview that offers a better understanding of the various training.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_and_rescue_dog

 

[TxJan1971]

BLM is Bureau of Land Management, a Federal agency that owns vast swathes of the western states and leases them for things like grazing and mineral development. http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en.html

Thanks for confirming that! It makes more sense now that you spelled out what it means. I couldn't understand what I was hearing (mumbling to me) so I typed what I heard (BLM) and put the (?) in case I didn't hear/transcribe it correctly. I can't go back and remove the (?) because I'm timed out for editing purposes but certainly do still appreciate the heads up.

 

[kammiemc]

I agree that I think he's been taken. While dogs are not infallible, I don't see how a bunch of them would not pick up ANY scent away from the campground. If he had wandered then surely one of them would pick up his scent.

I think someone took him from the campground, I think like William Tyrrell it was an opportune snatch, someone saw he wasn't being watched properly by GGP, saw no-one else around and grabbed him into a truck/car. It's amazing what we can miss just by getting on with life. I was watching a case about Sofia Silva and the Lisk sisters from Spotsylvania, VA. Sofia aged 16, was abducted from her front porch, with her older sister in the house, while she was doing homework. There were neighbours gardening and kids playing out in the street. No-one saw anything. Months later Kristin (15) and Kati (12) Lisk disappeared from their front yard. Again no-one saw anything, despite the girls walking home from the bus stop, changing clothes and starting to fill the pool in the yard with a hose.

I know these cases aren't identical to little Deorr's case, but it shows that even older children can be abducted without anyone seeing anything, even if neighbours and others are around.

This is exactly why I still struggle with letting my 10-year-old walk like four houses down to his friend's house even though we live in a perfectly safe neighborhood. Because you just never know.

So, this is a big question for me. Why isn't the sheriff leaving the door wide open to a possible abduction? Knowing that GGP wasn't in perfect health mentally or physically, he wouldn't be able to completely rely on what the ggp saw/didn't see. if I were the sheriff I might wonder if GGP could have dozed off while someone pulled right into the campsite took the toddler and took off. That would at least explain why none of the dogs could detect a scent trail.

Yet, he has all but completely ruled out an abduction possibility. I believe there is a good reason why. But what is it? Any theories? (BTW, this guy seems to me to have his Malcolm Gladwell 10,000 hours of expertise in his field. I'm not doubting him AT ALL. I just wish we knew what he is thinking.)

 

[rkf]

The main reason I thought maybe they didn't sleep at Timber Creek campground is because there seems to be no trace of Deorr being at that campground. I guess that would also fit in with them saying that they arrived on Friday - meaning they arrived at Timber Creek campground. I haven't read anything on SM other than the supposed sleeping arrangements (parents and Deorr in the back of a rig, grandpa in a camper and IR in a tent). I am just trying to make sense of it all...

FWIW, the rumor is that JM, DK and DeOrr slept in ggp's Suburban, ggp in his camper and IR in a tent. Maybe that's what you meant by rig.