ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #9

[starfire]

I highly doubt it was. I mean the reality of the situation is, DeOrr went missing from that campsite while 4 people were there within yards of him. What else could it be called??

If Deorr wandered off and got lost or was taken by a wild animal, it would not be considered a crime. "Crime scene" indicates foul play.

 

[ninij9]

BBM
IMO none of the three people are where they told the Sheriff they were. The Sheriff is just relaying what was told to him. Logically it could not make sense that the parents and IR were on the other side of the bank because they would have seen the baby. So I believe that GGP is the only one who was actually where he said he was and WHY GGP thought he was with the parents...because he thought the parents were on the other side. JMO

Yes, this.^^^^^

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[MzOpinion8d]

My issue with the possibility of IR as a suspect is that I flat out don't believe he's smart enough to have completely erased all evidence of anything, including DeOrr himself.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Posting this again because it was close to the end of the last thread: I posted this comment under the EIN article, but it remains "pending" which I don't understand because another comment I made went right through?

Anyway:

What happpened to the restaurant, the French fries, the old man who started at DeOrr and made Jessica feel "eery"? No receipts or eyewitnesses there? How about the "6 pm" sighting? If that was ruled out by LE, they should say say. All we've heard is the parents have ruled it out even though they believe he was abducted.

I find it very interesting that the Sheriff says he does NOT believe DeOrr was abducted, but doesn't say what he DOES think happened, only that he hopes he'll be found by hunters.

I appreciate this report, but it is by no means an "extensive interview". I thought reporters were supposed to ask questions.

Here's a few: what evidence makes you 99% DeOrr was at the campground?

Did DeOrr Sr and Jessica specifically ask Grandpa to watch DeOrr?

Was Grandpa physically able to chase after DeOrr if DeOrr had ran towards the creek with the embankment that was right next to their campsite?

Was there a fire going at the time DeOrr vanished?

What specifically was DeOrr doing at the time his parents left the campsite?

Why haven't photos and detailed descriptions been released of DeOrr's clothes he was wearing when he vanished? (Or photos of similar items) Jessica has posted info saying his boots were camo, and it was said his boots were "oversized" - what does that mean? How can searchers know if they've found a relevant clue without these details?

What vehicles and equipment were at the campground? Campers, tents, ATVs?

Who drove there?

What were the sleeping arrangements?

Was DeOrr "filthy and crying" when they purchased the items on the receipt? Have the parents explained why he was so upset?

Was Jessica seen in Leadore when they purchased the items? (follow up to DeOrr Sr's assertion that they went to Leadore "as a family" before 1 pm and that's why the 6 pm sighting was not possible)?

What time did the receipt indicate the purchases were made?

How long was DeOrr actually missing before 911 was called? Jessica said he had been missing for an hour when she called 911 at 2:28 pm but later reports said 10 min, 20 min, 4 min, and now "a second" when Grandpa turned his head.

Was any shred of evidence found anywhere? A footprint, a toy?

Was there a car seat in the black truck?

Those are just a few things many people are still wondering about...

 

[starfire]

I don't think he was up there unless he was carried.

I think you are probably correct on that. Apparently the trail up to the reservoir is steep. Little Deorr's grandfather (the one who lives with him, who is also named Deorr Kunz) was up at the campsite during the search and said Deorr was unsteady even on level ground and could not have walked up there.

"If he's in the water up there he was taken up there. He cannot walk on level ground without falling down. His little, short legs they can't walk up hill, he can't walk on level ground. He would have fallen and if he would have fallen he would have been crying. He didn't get up there by himself," DeOrr Kunz said.
http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...andfather-believes-boy-was-abducted/30321903/

 

[starfire]

Two things. The sheriff is not looking at the camera or the reporter for a lot of the interview. Second, the I think too much is being made of "oversized cowboy boots." My toddler wears a pair of oversized cowboy boots. You buy them big so that they last a while. They are so big that we can put them on on top of fleece footed pajamas, and yet they have never fallen off as far as I can remember. I don't have any firm ideas about this case at this point, so I'm not saying that to support any particular theory.

In the interview with the PI, the PI said the boots were big enough that Deorr kept walking out of them.

 

[starfire]

How much earlier though? GGP has stated to LE that he saw DeOrr AFTER the time they returned from the store, and the Sheriff implied that it was a very short time from the time they returned from the store to the time that DeOrr went missing. So, for that scenario to be true imo, GGP would be lying to cover up for them, right?

What I want to know is when ISAAC last saw DeOrr!

I would like to know that, too. Also how long after Deorr went missing did Isaac hear about it.

If the GGF has mental issues, is it possible he remembers things based on what he is told and can be influenced to believe things that didn't happen? And is Isaac really keeping track of time while he is off fishing?

 

[ninij9]

My issue with the possibility of IR as a suspect is that I flat out don't believe he's smart enough to have completely erased all evidence of anything, including DeOrr himself.

I'm not too sure of that. Plenty of crimes have been committed by dumb criminals that have stumped LE. And I don't think evidence was completely erased by anyone because the sherrif did state he turned over physical evidence to the FBI. I may be reading too much into the information we have, but time will tell.

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[jmcgladr]

If Deorr wandered off and got lost or was taken by a wild animal, it would not be considered a crime. "Crime scene" indicates foul play.

Nor would a child wandering off into the bushes and dying of natural causes be a crime scene (I don't think?). A crime scene is rather a specific term.

ETA: Nevermind, you already said that, didn't mean to say the same thing. At any rate, I agree

 

[Trident]

If mom and dad were over the embankment they are upstream and the friend is downstream and DeOrr was seen possibly going over the bank, then SOMEONE had to have seen him. They were right there. So, if he didn't go over the bank, where is he?????

Maybe he waded right through the water, parts of it weren't very deep, and went on up the hill? Where he went from there is anyone's guess. He was past the reservoir at that point I believe.

Just speculation

 

[travelbug]

My issue with the possibility of IR as a suspect is that I flat out don't believe he's smart enough to have completely erased all evidence of anything, including DeOrr himself.

I also question why a story would be hatched among the 3 family members in order to cover for IR. Even if there was some sort of accident and all 4 agreed to a cover-up, once the FBI was brought in and polygraphs were administered I believe a family member would break their silence and point the finger at IR. jmho

 

[ClaireNC]

I still cant figure out the fact that IR was fishing in the reservoir.. Deorr was near an embankment near a creek and mom and dad went exploring and dad saw minnows....what body of water were the minnows in? Wasnt everyone near water? Why didnt anyone see this baby disappear? And GGP.. what the heck? did he have his back to the creek..isnt the embankment what you would fall over and into the creek from?

Where were the minnow sightings in relation to the creek and reservoir? At some point dad had to be near water jmo

From the interview released today, IR was not fishing in the reservoir. He was downstream from DeOrr and Jessica, so that would be further away from the reservoir. He could have seen the minnows in the creek or the reservoir.

 

[ClaireNC]

The post was not referring to dogs on this search, but an article referring to search dogs being trained using cremains.

Thank you, starfire!

 

[Groundwork]

I, too, am wondering about the suggestsbility of ggp...could he have been truthful about seeing what he saw, but

 

[Deleted member 718]

In the time between "DeOrr is missing" to when LE showed up:

~Where exactly were each of our 4 campers? Where did each walk around? What did they do?

~Were any of them together?

~Searching alone?

~Were all 4 together when LE showed up?

With the parents frantically searching for Deorr, I wonder how long it took for them to make contact with Isaac. Would they run to search the reservoir first, or run down to him to see if he had seen Deorr?

 

[wondering25]

I think you are probably correct on that. Apparently the trail up to the reservoir is steep. Little Deorr's grandfather (the one who lives with him, who is also named Deorr Kunz) was up at the campsite during the search and said Deorr was unsteady even on level ground and could not have walked up there.

"If he's in the water up there he was taken up there. He cannot walk on level ground without falling down. His little, short legs they can't walk up hill, he can't walk on level ground. He would have fallen and if he would have fallen he would have been crying. He didn't get up there by himself," DeOrr Kunz said.
http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/loca...andfather-believes-boy-was-abducted/30321903/

You know.. This child was 2 and 1/2. Why was he unsteady on his feet per the grandpa he lived with? I have had a 2 and 1/2 year old. I also have worked as a nurse in various positions and one was pediatrics for almost 5 years. 2 and 1/2 year olds dont toddle.. that is a child who is learning to walk. At 2 and 1/2 years old they walk VERY well. To say he cannot walk on level ground without falling down is concerning. Did he have a physician? Was this ever addressed? Did he have a lot of injuries from falling down? I would like to see this baby's medical records if i was LE. JMO

 

[JadeSLeuth]

If DeOrr Jr tumbled down the bank, there would be snapped twigs, broken branches, skid and scuff marks, or any combination of these. This would be easy to spot quite quickly even by an untrained eye.

 

[carbuff]

The Sheriff did seem uncomfortable talking about possible store video & later even make a joke to that effect, but I find it hard to believe somewhat. As a small business owner in a rural area, I have it. It's cheap these days, whether you have a convenience store of selling gas...not having it can be expensive for many reasons & situations where you could be libel & not just employee theft. Also the Sheriff implied what he sent to the FBI he didn't want to talk about evidence. Maybe if there was video it was included??? But, if little DeOrr was on a store video or gas station, wouldn't you be 100% sure? He's sure the receipt matches up though. But perhaps a video / picture / sighting could be fraudulent or maybe there is no sighting? I find it strange, especially poo-pooing a stranger giving a creepy-look, as if they didn't investigate that lol. Of course they did in that tiny town IMO!

ETA - Yes, I think they have a theory.

Now I wonder if there's video from a camera at a neighboring store?

 

[concernedmother]

I have a 14 month gd that toddles everywhere. I agree that 2 1/2 yr olds walk.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Did both parents go to explore at the same time? Did they both return and discover Deorr missing at the same time?

I am really leaning away from IR as being involved mostly b/c you'd think the parents would suspect him right away and mention anything he did that was even slightly uncomfortable during the first night & next morning at camp involving Deorr.

I still think there is a possibility that Deorr just followed his parents w/them not realizing it and GGPA not knowing they'd expected Deorr to stay w/him. He might have gotten off the trail, gotten lost and died, not yet found. He may have fallen in the creek and hasn't been found. My biggest problem with this is the lack of items found, like boots, toys, etc that he probably would have become separated from had either of those scenarios happened.