ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #9

[neesaki]

The answer is in the webcams..JMO

Could you clarify this, wondering25 ? Just not sure what you mean. TIA

It's a real river. It has rapids. I remember my dad going to down it on a trip when I was little. The Snake River. Sounds sinister, no?

For some reason, Deorr said Snake River during the long interview when he was trying to say Salmon Search and Rescue. There was some discussion about it a while ago so that might be what you are remembering. Yes Timber Creek does run into the Lemhi River which runs into the Salmon River about 50 miles northwest from the campground. The Snake River runs through Idaho Falls, which is where Deorr and Jessica live.

Thanks kammie and ClaireNC, I found that info. so decided to delete my post, though a little late, Oh well...

 

[neesaki]

Didn't DeOrr Sr. (dad) mention Snake River a few times (and kept correcting himself) in the original parent/Nate interview???

My post keeps coming back to haunt me, but that's correct.

 

[KayCherry]

Well said, i feel like law enforcement holds their hand tight to vest, not sharing important info to build a case. The dogs information could be more informative. I am not sure I believe Lil Deorr was at campsite at all.

 

[KayCherry]

Animals usually leave some signs that they were around. If there weren't any recent signs in the area of the campground, that would make it less likely they were there when Deorr was.

The dogs would hit on the scent if Lil DeOrr was dragged off. All sounding a bit hard to accept.

 

[ClaireNC]

Because I do not believe that any one of the POI's had anything to do with his disappearance. They all took polygraphs. Although we do not know the results, the Sheriff does and he said the FBI is going over them in case his team missed something. This tells me that they all passed the polys but have asked the FBI to look at them again, just in case. Sheriff says they are all cooperative and we have not heard that any of the POIs have been brought in for a grilling or two by LE, which would have happened had they failed the tests.

Sheriff says that abduction is the least likely because no one saw any vehicles or people coming in or out of the campground. I suggest that the abductor was on foot and the vehicle was parked elsewhere.

By process of elimination; he was there, he disappeared. Then ruling out the creek, the reservoir, an animal attack, wandering away on foot and the polys and cooperation of the POIs, there is only one possibility - abduction.

Couldn't the fact that they have not announced the poly results mean that maybe somebody did not pass? In many other cases we have seen it reported that so-and-so passed the polygraph, and are no longer considered suspects or something to that effect. In this case we have a sheriff who says he is "good" with 3 of the POI's and believes the 4th is "truthful". Sometimes the silence is telling.

 

[TeaTime]

Well said, i feel like law enforcement holds their hand tight to vest, not sharing important info to build a case. The dogs information could be more informative. I am not sure I believe Lil Deorr was at campsite at all.

Sheriff says he is 99% sure the child was at the campsite. If he was not, then all 4 adults would have to be lying. Why would IR agree to conspire to lie to LE to cover for people he met Thursday night for the first time ever?

 

[TeaTime]

Couldn't the fact that they have not announced the poly results mean that maybe somebody did not pass? In many other cases we have seen it reported that so-and-so passed the polygraph, and are no longer considered suspects or something to that effect. In this case we have a sheriff who says he is "good" with 3 of the POI's and believes the 4th is "truthful". Sometimes the silence is telling.

If any of them failed the poly, it seems that LE would have been all over them, interviewing them over and over again and badgering them with that fact. At that point they would clam up or lawyer up and none of this happened. Sheriff says they are all cooperative.

 

[ClaireNC]

Sheriff says he is 99% sure the child was at the campsite. If he was not, then all 4 adults would have to be lying. Why would IR agree to conspire to lie to LE to cover for people he met Thursday night for the first time ever?

Respectfully, we don't know what IR told LE. He could have told them that he never actually saw the child.

 

[kammiemc]

Well said, i feel like law enforcement holds their hand tight to vest, not sharing important info to build a case. The dogs information could be more informative. I am not sure I believe Lil Deorr was at campsite at all.

I am "thinking" that the sheriff believes little DeOrr was there or he wouldn't have offered that he was 99% sure he was there. He just wouldn't have said anything about it. (Unless the purpose of his statement was to say that he couldn't be 100% sure, but for some reason I didn't get that impression.)

But the fact that tracking dogs picked up a scent that took them to the reservoir seems to suggest DeOrr was there. All that said, your theory is just as valid as anything anyone else is saying, based on the limited (and sometimes conflicting) info we have been made privy to. I do think it's pretty clear that the sheriff believes that a crime occurred at the campsite involving at least one of the POI's (the other direction the case is taking).He could be wrong. But your theory is probably closer aligned to the person who has the most facts than all of us with our uninformed hunches!

 

[Elena]

If any of them failed the poly, it seems that LE would have been all over them, interviewing them over and over again and badgering them with that fact. At that point they would clam up or lawyer up and none of this happened. Sheriff says they are all cooperative.

Or, they would prefer to keep it low so they don't lawyered up while LE is building a case. It's easier for LE to yield more information when no one is lawyered up.

 

[rkf]

Couldn't the fact that they have not announced the poly results mean that maybe somebody did not pass? In many other cases we have seen it reported that so-and-so passed the polygraph, and are no longer considered suspects or something to that effect. In this case we have a sheriff who says he is "good" with 3 of the POI's and believes the 4th is "truthful". Sometimes the silence is telling.

If the POIs passed their polys, I would have expected the PI to announce that in his interview. JMO

 

[relay]

Because I do not believe that any one of the POI's had anything to do with his disappearance. They all took polygraphs. Although we do not know the results, the Sheriff does and he said the FBI is going over them in case his team missed something. This tells me that they all passed the polys but have asked the FBI to look at them again, just in case. Sheriff says they are all cooperative and we have not heard that any of the POIs have been brought in for a grilling or two by LE, which would have happened had they failed the tests.

Sheriff says that abduction is the least likely because no one saw any vehicles or people coming in or out of the campground. I suggest that the abductor was on foot and the vehicle was parked elsewhere.

By process of elimination; he was there, he disappeared. Then ruling out the creek, the reservoir, an animal attack, wandering away on foot and the polys and cooperation of the POIs, there is only one possibility - abduction.

Law enforcement has not ruled anything out, including abduction, animal predator, human predator, the creek, the reservoir, the campsite area, that someone close to him harmed him or anything else. Sheriff Bowerman's most recent statement on video when interview by Nate Eaton supports this. LE may have their ideas and hierarchy regarding their opinions, but nothing has been ruled out. This complicates things greatly, but I am glad they are not ruling anything out until or unless they receive information from test results and the FBI and/or until or unless Deorr is found or more facts come to light. I do not believe Deorr's parents had anything to do with Deorr's disappearance, but I don't have enough facts to rule it out.

 

[Elena]

If the POIs passed their polys, I would have expected the PI to announce that in his interview. JMO

Exactly, why not clear them up if they passed the lie test? Especially when Chief deputy himself said it would be nice if the innuendo on SM would stop.

"And I know there's a lot of innuendo out on social media and a lot of stuff going out there and it would be nice if it would stop and let them have a little peace. They're solid." http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/16/deorr-kunz-missing-family/30239047/

 

[1&2&3]

Didn't DeOrr Sr. (dad) mention Snake River a few times (and kept correcting himself) in the original parent/Nate interview???

Peter Hyatt in Statement Analysis says many times a given will be leaked through language. (This is not an exact quote of his words.) Since reading this from the beginning of this case and having watched the parents interview, Snake River has jumped out at me as the leaked given since Deorr Sr. repeated it several times. Is this where little Deorr is?

While giving the interview about his missing son, Deorr, Sr. wanted control of that time so badly, why would he slip up and mention a river that had nothing to do with his missing son? Not once, but several times. Why was Snake River so strongly on his mind when his baby was missing?

My opinions only ... where is little Deorr?

 

[kammiemc]

If any of them failed the poly, it seems that LE would have been all over them, interviewing them over and over again and badgering them with that fact. At that point they would clam up or lawyer up and none of this happened. Sheriff says they are all cooperative.

You could be 100% right! But, just for consideration, it takes money to lawyer up. And I'm not sure, especially in the sheriff's mind, that cooperation equals exoneration. I would be surprised if there were only one interview with each POI in this case. It could be the case, but we certainly have not been told anything like that, or anything about the investigation.

We do know at least that IR went twice to the campsite with the sheriff. Was that a "grilling"? Kind of doubting that's the sheriff's style. But the sheriff was obviously interested in what IR had to say and likely asked lots of questions for clarification.

It's interesting about the polygraphs. I am worried that LE is holding back the results because they are not exonerating, and they don't want to fuel any fire in the public speculation of the POI's. I know, in at least some missing persons cases, it is made public when family members pass polygraphs--like, let's just get that out of the way.

I'm not assuming the results were negative, or even suspect, but I am definitely not thinking that because we have not been made aware of the polygraph results, or been privy to the number of interviews held with each the POI's, that the obvious conclusion is that the sheriff thinks they're clear.

He has pretty much taken every possibility off the table except a crime, not involving an abduction. (Not pleased to say that, but can't ignore it either.)

ETA: We have heard nothing from the family at all since the PI spoke. No outreach for tips in what they believe was an abduction. Is that tantamount to clamming up? I am not sure what clamming up looks like from our perspective!

 

[rkf]

Sheriff says he is 99% sure the child was at the campsite. If he was not, then all 4 adults would have to be lying. Why would IR agree to conspire to lie to LE to cover for people he met Thursday night for the first time ever?

I don't think we know what IR is saying to LE. We also have no idea what ggp is saying to LE, only what his relatives are saying he told them. GGP is a wild card, because he has been described as too mentally and physically unhealthy to be a POI, but later that changed to he is also a POI... I believe the sheriff made the change, only because people were asking why IR, DK and JM were POIs because they were at the scene, when ggp was also at the scene. It wasn't a ratcheting up of suspicion of ggp, so much as a way of implying that being called a POI is no big deal. Yes, there is no legal definition of POI, but there's some reason the four people at the campsite became POIs instead of remaining witnesses. AFAIK, witnesses can also "be there" and provide information about what happened surrounding a disappearance. If ggp says something that contradicts someone else's story, they can just say ggp has dementia and his memory can't be trusted.

I think the sheriff suspects foul play, and has since early in the investigation because:

1. Has anyone ever heard of someone being called a POI in a missing person investigation unless foul play was suspected?
2. Drones were used to take photos in case a criminal trial takes place.
http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/lemhi-sheriff-on-deorr-kunz-we-do-not-suspect-foul-play/
3. The sheriff said investigators from Bonneville and Bingham counties have offered assistance in further follow-up investigations into any possible criminal histories of those involved.
http://lemhiweb.com/content/search-recap
4. The sheriff called the area where DeOrr disappeared a "crime scene".
[video=youtube;FV-h82eVQ1M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV-h82eVQ1M[/video]
5. The sheriff says abduction is the least likely scenario. He also does not believe DeOrr is in the creek or reservoir or was the victim of an animal attack.
Same link as above.

Until DeOrr is found, dead or alive, no one can rule out any scenario 100%, but I think it speaks volumes that the sheriff has stated publicly what he thinks did NOT happen. He must have some reasons for his beliefs. Unfortunately, we don't know what they are. I hope he's wrong and a nice couple like the one in "Gone, Baby, Gone" is loving and caring for DeOrr.

 

[Cardinal47]

Couldn't the fact that they have not announced the poly results mean that maybe somebody did not pass? In many other cases we have seen it reported that so-and-so passed the polygraph, and are no longer considered suspects or something to that effect. In this case we have a sheriff who says he is "good" with 3 of the POI's and believes the 4th is "truthful". Sometimes the silence is telling.

Wait a second. Boy I sure do hate to question you Claire because you have all the 'right' info.

But didn't the sheriff say he was 'good' with them in the beginning and then later say all four were 'POI's?

That to me kind of changes the picture.

I could be wrong and look to you to straighten this out. TIA

 

[DexterMorgan]

I think the guy was brought on the trip to be someone's independent alibi which was unbeknownst to him.

 

[rkf]

Peter Hyatt in Statement Analysis says many times a given will be leaked through language. (This is not an exact quote of his words.) Since reading this from the beginning of this case and having watched the parents interview, Snake River has jumped out at me as the leaked given since Deorr Sr. repeated it several times. Is this where little Deorr is?

While giving the interview about his missing son, Deorr, Sr. wanted control of that time so badly, why would he slip up and mention a river that had nothing to do with his missing son? Not once, but several times. Why was Snake River so strongly on his mind when his baby was missing?

My opinions only ... where is little Deorr?

Could be because they live near the Snake River in Idaho Falls. During the vigil in the Idaho Falls park, JM said DeOrr could be very, very close. Could be leakage or wishful thinking. JMO

 

[Cardinal47]

Respectfully, we don't know what IR told LE. He could have told them that he never actually saw the child.

I was just thinking that. We have no idea at all whose cooperating and who is throwing who under the bus and also what the general consensus is from LE on what they think happened.

No searches going on and no big deal searchers being called in. No groups planning candle light vigils or selling tshirts and wrist bands at fund raisers.

No follow up on NG and nobody pleading for his return or help in finding him.

Honestly I think LE knows pretty much what happened to him but they might be missing one or two key pieces of the puzzle.

So we wait.