ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #9

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  • #921
Oh I am familiar with the term POI but my question was when did it appear in this case. I believe after the 'I'm good with them'.
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I thought I answered this last night, but I guess it wasn't clear. I seems to me that the sheriff was "good" with the parents pretty much right from the start. IIRC, the term POI came into use once the case went from being just SAR to being a more extensive investigation. The point when it was announced that the investigation was shifting and they brought in the drones to document the area in the event that there is a trial in the future.

Disclaimer: This is just going off my memory, I didn't go back and check articles to see when POI was first used and, of course, it is my opinion only.
 
  • #922
I got the sense that he truly did feel good about the parents but that he was speaking even more positively about the friend in order to maintain a dialogue and to maintain trust. I could be wrong, of course.

I thought about that too. He doesn't want to say anything that might stop the info from coming from those at the campground. He basically was publicly thanking IR. And he might genuinely be appreciative of the cooperation. It would seem there is not a heck of a lot to go on!
 
  • #923
Why hasn't the family "lawyered up?" There are plenty of attorneys who would take this case pro bono..grieving parents, FBI crawling all over the place...unsophisticated POI... Let's say the 4 poi are totally innocent, their probable lack of financial resources make them vulnerable to a law enforcement entity that could be looking nowhere else.. that is taking advantage of their eagerness to cooperate and be twisting things. I am not saying that is what is happening.. i am saying these things happen. A lawyer, eager to help or make a name for himself, might jump in and offer to assist the family. No one has come forward that we know about. IF the family is watching the sheriff on the news and hears what he has eliminated ALMOST 100% (abduction, drowning, wild animals) what is left? Who is advising these people? The PI? YIKES! I hope their "cooperation with LE" and lack of legal representation doesn't come back to bite them. JMO

I agree. Unless they know with 100% certainty that they are not being looked at as POI's by the FBI, they need a lawyer. I would hope to god that this isn't a situation where there would be false charges brought against the parents. (I can't see that happening. Has that happened in any missing child case out there? I can't think of any.) It does seem like the PI was sort of playing the role of advisor/unofficial spokesman. Where did he go? Why hasn't the one FB page been updated if he is trying to get word out about an abduction? Maybe he's not working for the family anymore. They need a real lawyer.
 
  • #924
I think everyone disappeared to follow Vester Flanagan story. Holy ****. If anger isn't considered a mental illness, maybe it should!
 
  • #925
The parents may not feel they need lawyers. They aren't really in the media spotlight (though I would be if it was my child), the police aren't really looking at them, and there is nothing to say they have done anything wrong.
 
  • #926
Why hasn't the family "lawyered up?" There are plenty of attorneys who would take this case pro bono..grieving parents, FBI crawling all over the place...unsophisticated POI... Let's say the 4 poi are totally innocent, their probable lack of financial resources make them vulnerable to a law enforcement entity that could be looking nowhere else.. that is taking advantage of their eagerness to cooperate and be twisting things. I am not saying that is what is happening.. i am saying these things happen. A lawyer, eager to help or make a name for himself, might jump in and offer to assist the family. No one has come forward that we know about. IF the family is watching the sheriff on the news and hears what he has eliminated ALMOST 100% (abduction, drowning, wild animals) what is left? Who is advising these people? The PI? YIKES! I hope their "cooperation with LE" and lack of legal representation doesn't come back to bite them. JMO

Are there really? It's not exactly a high-profile case. Why would they take it pro-bono? What would they get out of it?

ETA: I also feel like getting a lawyer pro-bono when you haven't even been arrested...cannot be easy.
 
  • #927
I agree. Unless they know with 100% certainty that they are not being looked at as POI's by the FBI, they need a lawyer. I would hope to god that this isn't a situation where there would be false charges brought against the parents. (I can't see that happening. Has that happened in any missing child case out there? I can't think of any.) It does seem like the PI was sort of playing the role of advisor/unofficial spokesman. Where did he go? Why hasn't the one FB page been updated if he is trying to get word out about an abduction? Maybe he's not working for the family anymore. They need a real lawyer.

Riley Fox and Stephanie Crowe come to mind. It was Stephanie's brother in her case, though.
 
  • #928
The parents may not feel they need lawyers. They aren't really in the media spotlight (though I would be if it was my child), the police aren't really looking at them, and there is nothing to say they have done anything wrong.

I would think (totally assuming and could be wrong) that the FBI would be analyzing all the behavioral and physical evidence, including that of the parents (polygraph), any inconsistencies, background, timeline, etc. It looks like you have a degree in criminology, so I'm really interested in your perspective and any reasons you see as to why the FBI wouldn't be looking at them. I'm still thinking that anything (including bigfoot--not really) is possible in this case since nothing has been ruled out. It seems like the parents loved that little boy, so I'm not jumping to any conclusions. (I was thinking that the spouse/parent/family members are always seriously evaluated, just based on stats. But total assumption!) Thanks!
 
  • #929
Are there really? It's not exactly a high-profile case. Why would they take it pro-bono? What would they get out of it?

ETA: I also feel like getting a lawyer pro-bono when you haven't even been arrested...cannot be easy.

There are always lawyers who are looking to get their name in the news.. who might be hoping to make a name for themselves.. and EVERY county bar association has a list of attorneys who will take a case pro bono.. We are not necessarily talking about a long protracted attorney/client relationship here.. just some advice. Lawyers are, after all, advocates . JMO
 
  • #930
There are always lawyers who are looking to get their name in the news.. who might be hoping to make a name for themselves.. and EVERY county bar association has a list of attorneys who will take a case pro bono.. We are not necessarily talking about a long protracted attorney/client relationship here.. just some advice. Lawyers are, after all, advocates . JMO

Maybe they have been talking to a lawyer. We haven't heard a peep from the parents since the interview, so I guess they could be lawyered up and we'd have no idea. I am not sure that IR could handle the logistics of contacting and meeting with a lawyer.
 
  • #931
Why hasn't the family "lawyered up?" There are plenty of attorneys who would take this case pro bono..grieving parents, FBI crawling all over the place...unsophisticated POI... Let's say the 4 poi are totally innocent, their probable lack of financial resources make them vulnerable to a law enforcement entity that could be looking nowhere else.. that is taking advantage of their eagerness to cooperate and be twisting things. I am not saying that is what is happening.. i am saying these things happen. A lawyer, eager to help or make a name for himself, might jump in and offer to assist the family. No one has come forward that we know about. IF the family is watching the sheriff on the news and hears what he has eliminated ALMOST 100% (abduction, drowning, wild animals) what is left? Who is advising these people? The PI? YIKES! I hope their "cooperation with LE" and lack of legal representation doesn't come back to bite them. JMO

I read this twice and then decided to respond. Just my own thoughts. Several reasons I can think of.

1. Lack of sophistication with the legal system
2. A general lack of trust in Attorneys
3. Afraid of questions they might be asked
4. Lack of funds...Legal advice is not always free

I don't think a lot of attorneys take cases like this where there is not a big payday at the end. Money or some marvelous headlines like Jose Baez got during the Anthony trial.

We sometimes think they are dumpster diving for these cases but I don't think so.

Gloria Allred has kind of set herself up on the protection of women's rights and I think she gained a lot of attention when she represented Amber Frey. She now represents a ton of the women suing Bill Cosby. Big $$$ there.

This little case in Idaho hasn't played out on tv or the programs that would cater to this kind of news. If you ask most folks anywhere in the country about DeOrr Kunz Jr you would get a 'who' answer. It's not big news like cases getting the big shot attorneys.

One segment on NG with the parents not commenting and nothing since doesn't seem to me the kind of case some well known attorney looking for media attention would be volunteering for.

MOO
 
  • #932
Maybe they have been talking to a lawyer. We haven't heard a peep from the parents since the interview, so I guess they could be lawyered up and we'd have no idea. I am not sure that IR could handle the logistics of contacting and meeting with a lawyer.

LOL I think IR pretty much shut everybody up with his one and only interview at the front door. I was scared they would open that door all the way!

No more knocks on his front door!
 
  • #933
I read this twice and then decided to respond. Just my own thoughts. Several reasons I can think of.

1. Lack of sophistication with the legal system
2. A general lack of trust in Attorneys
3. Afraid of questions they might be asked
4. Lack of funds...Legal advice is not always free

I don't think a lot of attorneys take cases like this where there is not a big payday at the end. Money or some marvelous headlines like Jose Baez got during the Anthony trial.

We sometimes think they are dumpster diving for these cases but I don't think so.

Gloria Allred has kind of set herself up on the protection of women's rights and I think she gained a lot of attention when she represented Amber Frey. She now represents a ton of the women suing Bill Cosby. Big $$$ there.

This little case in Idaho hasn't played out on tv or the programs that would cater to this kind of news. If you ask most folks anywhere in the country about DeOrr Kunz Jr you would get a 'who' answer. It's not big news like cases getting the big shot attorneys.

One segment on NG with the parents not commenting and nothing since doesn't seem to me the kind of case some well known attorney looking for media attention would be volunteering for.

MOO

And I don't even think this is that big of a story in Idaho either. We've had members from Boise saying its barely been covered there after a week. Considering the parents won't do media appearances, it would be up to the lawyer to keep the case in the news. Lawyers also have to pay the bills.

Even in high profile cases, like the Anthony case, there was some payout. The lawyers expect to get paid through pictures, interviews, book deals, what would the payout be here? Your name on east Idaho news does not give out money.
 
  • #934
Watching the sheriff's interview, I got the vibe that he has no clue whatsoever about Deorr's whereabouts. He practically ruled everything out. There were only two things that struck me in both the edited and non edited video clips. The glaringly obvious one being edited which put a different spin on the interview, and suspicion of course. I may be alone in this opinion, but I believe he expects Deorr to be found by a hunter, and that's the strongest suggestion he's ever offered up. So, it sounds like he's assuming (or I am lol) that Deorr is deceased and there's a good chance they'll recover some evidence outside of the 3 mile radius.
 
  • #935
thanks to txjan for that awesome post about the MSM search dog compilation quotes...well done.

IMO deorr was never at the campsite. "a scent" is distinct from "deorr's scent". "a scent" does not designate a trail scent. and with the sheriff "99%" sure he was at the campsite...well, to make that statement, means there is not one clue "100%" confirming he was ever there.

yes, a blankie in a truck does contain his scent. doesn't mean he was ever there. as with his carseat. doesn't make a positive ID at timber creek. and LE has not definitively confirmed the store clerk made a positive ID on deorr at any time...

this case is a haunting one. JMO deorr was never on a fishing trip.
 
  • #936
Assuming that the Sheriff actually has reasons for saying the things he did (beyond mere gut feeling or hunch), imo it would not be irrational to conclude that this "kid wanders away from campsite" is in fact something far more sinister. Sheriff says Deorr was at the campsite (although couldn't confirm, that's how I understood the "99% sure"). Sheriff says Deorr was not abducted, wasn't attacked by wildlife, and didn't drown or in some way end up in the creek or reservoir. There is no scent found of Deorr outside the campsite. It seems unclear whether his scent was even found at the campsite, but the sheriff must have a reason for being so sure Deorr was there.

Let's be frank, Deorr is not alive. He may not have even made it to the campsite alive, which would explain the lack of scent (eg, he was in a vehicle). What scenarios are left? GGP is from most accounts severely physically handicapped. IR, although the interview raised eyebrows, in a sense, and this is just my opinion, worked in favour of his non-involvement. Basically he came off as a complete drunk/drugged dummy, simply not capable of making Deorr disappear, literally without a trace, within the very narrow window of opportunity described by the parents. Which leaves?

Well it leaves Mr and Mrs Kunz.

All of this is just my opinion, which rests on the assumption that the sheriff has reasons for his beliefs beyond mere gut feeling or hunch. There is no (concrete) evidence (that we know of) (so far) of the parents involvement.

But hypothetically if they are guilty of something, then what? Perhaps the parents 'walk/exploration' actually involved a car.. A car which could of taken Deorr well outside of the search radius (was it 3 or so miles?), and made it back within the hour that the parents reported he had been missing.

Just thinking out loud here, nothing more than my own idle musings.

I like your thought, but wanted to point out that grandpa isn't severely physically handicapped. He is oxygen dependent but has a small portable tank from photos I've seen. He's still able to drive, as well.

He likely wasn't the best choice in case a 2 year old ran towards the creek and steep embankment that were only a few yards away, however...
 
  • #937
NOT DEORR - I don't want the video title to give anyone a scare.

This may have been mentioned at some point, but I only just came across it looking for another video. A two year-old child went missing and was found drowned in the Snake river this past May. Did anyone else hear about this?

[video=youtube;7ukfLN4xbF4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ukfLN4xbF4[/video]
 
  • #938
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  • #939
He looks so very very little. He looks the same as my niece, and she will be one in two weeks.

That made me even sadder typing that.
 
  • #940
It's been awhile, but I remember my toddlers wearing the same pants for two years. A chubby one year old wearing a diaper fills out a 24 mo size. The next year they slim down. lose the diaper and the pants still fit.

I always kept worn out or too small clothing for outside play. Let them have fun getting dirty, then just rag-bag it.

Hoping for resolution.

DeOrr was apparently still in a diaper, at least at night.
 
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