ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow - Tylee Ryan - Tammy Daybell - Charles Vallow - *Arrests* #68

[fred&edna]

Lori Vallow trial: Jury selection set to begin for doomsday cult mom | What you need to know

The Idaho woman is accused of killing her two youngest children and her husband's ex-wife in a sensational case that's had many twists and turns.

abc7chicago.com

"What we can expect to see, at least from the defense, is some sort of effort to make Lori Vallow Daybell look like she's insane -- that she's suffering from delusions, she suffering from mental illness, and that she didn't know what she was doing," said attorney David Glass.

'Seems he's expecting the unavailable insanity defense.

 

[whatsupp]

Lori Vallow trial: Jury selection set to begin for doomsday cult mom | What you need to know

The Idaho woman is accused of killing her two youngest children and her husband's ex-wife in a sensational case that's had many twists and turns.

abc7chicago.com

"What we can expect to see, at least from the defense, is some sort of effort to make Lori Vallow Daybell look like she's insane -- that she's suffering from delusions, she suffering from mental illness, and that she didn't know what she was doing," said attorney David Glass.

The law prohibits any consideration of a defendant's insanity in a criminal trial. Testimony is restricted to issues of mens rea and other elements of the offense charged. The court, however, is ordered by law to consider mental illness as a factor in sentence selection.

Abolition of the Insanity Plea in Idaho - A Case Study | Office of Justice Programs

www.ojp.gov

 

[CSIDreamer]

'Seems he's expecting the unavailable insanity defense.

He apparently doesn't hang with us. Pity. JMO

 

[fred&edna]

I am very glad to hear the media have guaranteed seats. It is confusing based on what it says here:

Individuals wishing to attend any of the locations must reserve a seat in advance. There will be no priority or designated seating for the public or media. All attendees must comply with all courtroom and courthouse decorum orders.

Also, sometime Friday or Saturday, this was posted:

UPDATE – Timeframe for Reservation Requests has Been Extended​

The timeframe to request reservations for the Ada County Public Hearing Room has just been extended. You may continue to submit reservation requests until 4:00 p.m. MT for April 3, 2023.

The timeframe to request reservations for the Madison County Courthouse has also been extended. You may continue to submit reservation requests until 12:00 p.m. MT for April 3, 2023.

Vallow Daybell Trial

Information and answers to commonly asked questions about the Vallow Daybell Trial scheduled to take place in Ada County.

adacounty.id.gov

I'm totally confused about these guaranteed seats. I thought they had to make a "reservation" (first come first serve)??

 

[fred&edna]

It sounds like the media have guaranteed reservations for this trial.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1642611651643072512

Media will be permitted along with the public via reservation seating.

If this is guaranteed seating... I'm missing something (important)! lol

 

[fred&edna]

Maybe some of us are confusing "direct victim" with "victim of record" or we have "involved party" or "person otherwise identified by the court". I am definitely confused.

ETA: Victim of record is mentioned in link below (Within first Question "Am I a victim?")

Victim – Frequently Asked Questions

The Commission of Pardons and Parole will contribute to public safety by utilizing sound, professional judgment and evidence-based parole decision making practices.

parole.idaho.gov

• The Victim Of Record is the direct victim of the offense for which the offender is incarcerated and was identified as such by the county prosecuting attorney’s office where the offense took place.
• An Involved Party is a surviving spouse, guardian, parent of the Victim of Record, or a person otherwise identified by the Courts.
• If you are the Victim of Record or Court designated Involved Party, you can contact our office and receive assistance.

 

[Cool Cats]

Maybe some of us are confusing "direct victim" with "victim of record" or we have "involved party" or "person otherwise identified by the court". I am definitely confused.

ETA: Victim of record is mentioned in link below (Within first Question "Am I a victim?")

Victim – Frequently Asked Questions

The Commission of Pardons and Parole will contribute to public safety by utilizing sound, professional judgment and evidence-based parole decision making practices.

parole.idaho.gov

• The Victim Of Record is the direct victim of the offense for which the offender is incarcerated and was identified as such by the county prosecuting attorney’s office where the offense took place.
• An Involved Party is a surviving spouse, guardian, parent of the Victim of Record, or a person otherwise identified by the Courts.
• If you are the Victim of Record or Court designated Involved Party, you can contact our office and receive assistance.

Idaho Manual on the …​

https://www.ag.

idaho.gov/.../2018/04/VictimsRights.…

• File Size: 147KB
• Page Count: 23

 

[fred&edna]

Idaho Manual on the …​

https://www.ag.

idaho.gov/.../2018/04/VictimsRights.…

• File Size: 147KB
• Page Count: 23

Good reference! I linked to it earlier

 

[SteveS]

I am obviously failing to express myself clearly.

It does not matter if it is not clear who is and who is not immediate family.

Immediate family members of a homicide victim are automatically considered direct victims.

Other individuals who were directly harmed by the crimes are considered direct victims.

Let's step away from "gray area" immediate family and consider clear immediate family. Like parents or siblings. De facto, they are considered direct victims of the crime of the homicide of their child or sibling, right?

Now ask yourself why that person is considered a direct victim. It is because their immediate family was murdered.

There can be other direct victims that are not immediate family.

Who would they be?

One example would be people hurt in the same way and with the same severity as immediate family members.

IMO, K&L are hurt in the same way and with the same severity as immediate family members.

Therefore, if immediate family members (not the gray area ones) are considered direct victims, K&L must be, too.

Is that better?

Direct victims who are to be called as witnesses (or who are subpoenaed) have the right to attend all parts of the trial in Idaho. That is not true is all states, but it is true in Idaho.

MOO

Rum, since you addressed me ....

Yes I understand that is your opinion of what the law is. OTOH from what I have seen of the ID law, I don't think all of your views of what the ID law is, or what it means, are accurate legally, and some of the questions you are focused on, I see them as mostly inconsequential in this case. I think a lot of the jargon is garbled. some doesn't even exist in the code, and it just confuses things even further. For example, the vast majority of references of any kind to a victim in the ID code are talking about JJ/Tylee, and the rights being enumerated would be for them and not anyone else.

(But I don't have a desire to personally research and exegete the ID legal code re these questions being raised, and try to explain it point by point afterwards. I prefer to let Boyce do that for me. Although I don't think I am, I am very aware I may be missing things in ID law. But I am confident he won't miss a thing.)

So overall I don't see any point in going past offering my own pov. If you see something different, no biggie, because....

No matter what we do or don't do here, for the particulars of this case, BOYCE will explain what the law is, and what its result will be. And we will have that answer quite soon.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Courtroom Insider: The Lori Daybell Trial Preview | Nate Eaton is live in Boise with a preview of what's expected when the Lori Daybell trial begins Monday. | By Nate Eaton - Reporter | Facebook

2.4K views, 74 likes, 41 loves, 233 comments, 18 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Nate Eaton - Reporter: Nate Eaton is live in Boise with a preview of what's expected when the Lori Daybell trial...

fb.watch

 

[BeckyF]

Nate Eaton has given a rundown of when he will provide us with updates throughout the trial. Thank You Nate.

 

[Niner]

Monday, April 3rd:
*Jury Selection set to begin (@ 9am MT) – ID – Joshua Jaxon (JJ) Vallow (7) & Tylee Ashlyn Ryan (16) (JJ last seen Sept. 23, 2019 & Tylee on Sept. 9, 2019, Rexburg; found June 9, 2020 buried in Daybell’s yard in Salem, ID) – *Lori Norene Vallow aka Lori Norene Daybell (46/now 49) arrested (in Kauai, Hawaii on 2/20/20) & indicted & charged (5/25/21) & re-arraigned (4/19/22) with Count 1 (for Tylee): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception (for Daybell, Vallow & Alex Cox) & other co-conspirators. Count 2 (for Tylee): 1st degree murder. Count 3 (for JJ): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception. Count 4(for JJ): 1st degree murder. Count 5 (for Tammy): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder. Count 6: Lori only: Grand theft (related to social security survivor benefits allocated for the care of minors Tylee & JJ). Plead not guilty. DA will seek DP. Was transferred to Ada County jail on 3/22/23. Fremont County.
Conspiracy to commit destruction, alteration or concealment of evidence charges dismissed without prejudice on 7/29/21. Fremont County
Resisting or obstructing LE, solicitation of a crime & contempt of court. All charges were dismissed on 1/3/22. Madison County
Trial set to begin on 4/3/23 with jury selection (3 or 4 days) & trial thru 6/9/23 @ 9am. Trial will be held in Ada County. (will last about 10 weeks) Trials have been severed.
Arrest & Grand Jury & Competency & Court info from 3/5/20 thru 3/23/23 reference post #115 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-68.671199/page-6#
3/28/23 Update: Hearing is scheduled on 3/29/23 will deal with the trial witness list. Judge Boyce says this hearing will be about the attendance of victims in the case "as it relates to the exclusionary rule". That is about excluding certain witnesses from being present during other testimony. Boyce: The legal issue today the court wants to discuss is "who is a legally defined victim who would not be subject to the exclusionary order the court just ordered." Rob Wood believes Kay & Larry Woodcock should be considered victims in the case. That's JJ's grandparents who we expect to be present at the trial. Also adding Summer Shiftlet (Lori's sister) & Colby Ryan (Lori's son, JJ & Tylee's brother) to be considered. Lori's attorneys responding -- "we believe the only victim under Idaho code is Colby Ryan would be the only one who qualifies as a victim". The defense team does not believe JJ's grandparents or Lori's sister should fit the legal definition. Archibald is asking the judge to exclude Summer Shiftlet & Kay and Larry Woodcock from the victim list. Boyce will not make a decision today & will issue a written ruling on who will be considered a victim in the case, therefore who would be permitted to be present during portions of testimony. Prosecution & defense must submit supplemental briefings by 5pm Friday, 3/31/23. Next jury selection begins on 4/3/23 @ 9am. Should take about a week & trial will take at least 2 months or more. There will be 1,800 potential jurors.
*Chad Guy Daybell (53/now 54) – Pretrial motions hearing on 3/2/23. Trial was set to begin on 4/3/23 was vacated.
*AZ – *Charge Vallow (62) shot on July 11, 2019. Lori Norene Vallow indicted (6/24/21) & served (6/29/21) with 1 count of conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder in the death of former husband Charles Vallow . Maricopa County
Case info reference post #970:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-67.655419/page-49

 

[Ruminations]

I want to clarify why I'm dinging on this "direct victim" phrase. The only designation I'm seeing in any Idaho laws/statutes/what have you is "victim". It sounds to me like there is a higher designation beyond victim, which is "direct victim", which I'm not finding anywhere. I'm getting touchy (anxious) about this case with the trial looming and want to make sure there isn't some hidden designation.

I'm sure I'm not the only one getting a little wound up over justice.

Your appeal drove me from laziness.

I totally identify with getting wound up.

In Annie's most recent time line, the definition that a victim is a person who experienced direct harm is highlighted from code at 14:27.

At 19:34 code that says that victims rights extend to immediate family members is at 19:34.

Lol, I am totally wound up, but SteveS is right. The outcome is not in our hands and we will know soon. ( Although I suspect Steve's as wound up as you and I )

MOO

PS: I am old- that's my excuse for losing my friendly little winking and smiling emoji after my claim that SteveS is as wound up as I am and for not figuring out how to link Annie's you/ tube. It is linked above- or can be searched. The channel is called 'A Murderous Heart.'

 

[watergirl62]

https://youtube.com/@AMurderousHeart

 

[887sMtreme]

*relief*

But they have to scramble for reservations along with everybody else. It isn't right.

 

[887sMtreme]

I'm totally confused about these guaranteed seats. I thought they had to make a "reservation" (first come first serve)??

They do have to make reservations with everybody else. I think this is a travesty.

 

[ReadySet]

Jury selection day 1: Jury selection begins on first day of Lori Vallow Daybell murder trial - East Idaho News

BOISE – Lori Vallow Daybell’s murder trial began with jury selection Monday morning in Ada County. Daybell is charged with murder, conspiracy and grand theft in connection to the deaths of her children, 7-year-old Joshua “JJ” Vallow, and Tylee Ryan, who was last seen a few days before her 17th...

www.eastidahonews.com

LIVE UPDATES: Lori Vallow Daybell trial begins​

 

[CSIDreamer]

Jury selection day 1: Jury selection begins on first day of Lori Vallow Daybell murder trial - East Idaho News

BOISE – Lori Vallow Daybell’s murder trial began with jury selection Monday morning in Ada County. Daybell is charged with murder, conspiracy and grand theft in connection to the deaths of her children, 7-year-old Joshua “JJ” Vallow, and Tylee Ryan, who was last seen a few days before her 17th...

www.eastidahonews.com

LIVE UPDATES: Lori Vallow Daybell trial begins​

I'm just certain Nate and Justin are in the overflow room.

JMO

 

[Hoosgirl]

I'm just certain Nate and Justin are in the overflow room.

JMO

Sounds like it:

8:40 a.m. John Prior, Chad Daybell’s attorney, just walked into the overflow room to monitor proceedings. His client remains in the Fremont County Jail. Because there are no cameras, Chad will not get to watch what happens with his wife’s trial.

8:30 a.m. Around three dozen people are in the overflow room at the Ada County Courtroom as jury selection is about to get underway. Media from Idaho, Utah and Arizona are here. We’re told proceedings will begin each day at 8:30 a.m. and Judge Steven Boyce wants to dismiss the jury around 3:30 p.m. Breaks will be short (around 20-30 min. for lunch) to keep the trial moving.

 

[Ruminations]

'Seems he's expecting the unavailable insanity defense.

I'm not sure if the lawyer quoted has particular knowledge of this case.

To a certain extent, "insanity" is always available when it could mean that an element of the charged crime could not have been met- usually some cognitive detail like premeditation. These jury instructions (from memory) included explicitly that the jury must find Lori "not guilty" on a charge if it is found that the alleged crime was commuted as an impulse rather than a planned action. The plan could be made in a moment- so it is not about length of time. It's about state of mind, and insanity could make planning impossible.

However, the prosecution is ready for this IMO. They already have their expert psychiatrist review Lori's apparent state of mind for the crimes using available information. He concluded it looked like she was criminally responsible (planning) her crimes. I imagine he used evidence such as that she lied and covered her crimes.

The defense can counter that the expert has not evaluated Lori- and he hasn't because she choose not to be evaluated by him- but the court could insist she submit to being evaluated by him. The defense will probably submit their own evaluation, too.

I think it will be an uphill climb to claim Lori did not plan her actions and know they were wrong in the eyes of others outside her immediate circle.

So, I'm not worried about any insanity-like defense, negating premeditation.

MOO