ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow - Tylee Ryan - Tammy Daybell - Charles Vallow - Arrests #69

Tortoise · Apr 13, 2023

Gut_feeling said:
I think he was trying to imply to the jury that Lori was aware of this change prior to Charles' death, so that the jury would not think an insurance payout was the motivator in killing him. When in reality, yes, it is now known that he changed it to Kay, but Lori sure as heck didn't know, per her angry/confused exchange with Chad and her phone call to the insurance company. Boy, that had to sting. They thought they were getting a million dollars! And suddenly, NOPE!

It's not very smart for a defense attorney to try to mislead jurors. It undermines their intelligence and they won't be impressed by it when they get all the evidence that Lori was expecting all the dosh. IMO

Cedars · Apr 13, 2023

Kingsley said:
The more testimony that I read, the more that I think religion in the sense of true beliefs had nothing to do with the murders.
It is a tale of two selfish people who murdered spouses, an increasingly independent teenager, and a high-spirited/spectrum young child to get their money and to be together. The rest is just manipulative trappings and convenient "visions". The religion aspect is useful to see how religion was used in the manipulation and conspiracy to commit murder. Otherwise, take it away and there is not much to the tale but a disgusting, selfish pair and some not so bright (IMO) flunkies.

Perhaps, but I think in order to get a conviction on circumstancial evidence, the prosecutors need to show a powerful, and very unusual, motive.

I don't know what percent of the US population could be characterized as disgustingly selfish, but I think it's way, way more than just two out of 330 million. Even if just 1% of the US population was extremely selfish (super lowballing it, from my observation) that would be potentially 3 million people eager to murder their spouse and minor children at any time in order to be with someone similarly selfish.

Also recall, there's no evidence in their past, of either of them being abnormally selfish, certainly not homocide.

If it were just a matter of acting on selfish desires, IMO this type of case would be very common.

ETA I think the religious beliefs, especially about the imminent end of the world, created the conditions where, for Lori, the life or death of her children didn't matter.

JMO

indicolite22 · Apr 13, 2023

alexwood said:
Excellent work, @Tortoise! I was wrong about LV being deceptive. She reported accurately to the insurance representative that Charles was shot, and that it was not a homicide, but an accident. That is how it was determined to be at that time. She hung up on the call smug in the knowledge that she was the "primary beneficiary" and would soon be receiving a claims package ("by email, would be great!"). Instead, she got a "Dear Lolo Letter" stating that she was not a beneficiary at all. (Smiles!)

Self-defense death is still homicide. He died at the hands of another person.

Gut_feeling · Apr 13, 2023

BUF said:
Really? Charles changing the beneficiary was a spear through her heart?

Yes, and "he left nothing for JJ!" [gasp]
Now, in their mind, JJ was worthless to them.

nhmemorymaker · Apr 13, 2023

Love Never Fails said:
Just what I suspected about Melani Pawlowski. She was involved up to her neck. Likely in the Jeep when Alex took the shot at Brandon. I still think all the people in their inner circle wanted to believe that crap. I think they knew it wasn’t real. It was just a good way to kill the people they didn’t like or want in their lives anymore. Of course, first the “dark ones”had to be insured,

i have felt from day one that Melani P has gotten away with murder from the get go.

fred&edna · Apr 13, 2023

This tweet by JLum (amidst the "blessing" recording) is a good'un!

alexwood · Apr 13, 2023

BUF said:
Being played for the jury…

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Chad D-U-M-B-B-E-L-L, of "Iowa", bereaved "nephew" of Charles Vallow, a former baseball player (if I am not mistaken), calling to get a "Ballpark Price" (a/k/a "Cheapskate Rate") on having Charles cremated and his cremains shipped to "New Orleans", Louisiana.

What a buffoon.

Ruminations · Apr 13, 2023

mickey2942 said:
I am surprised that the defense let in the information about Charles Vallow and Tammy Daybell being dead. If they objected to it, and the judge put it down, that seems to be an appeal issue to me.

I'm surprised about so much detail into Charles' murder, too. The conversations Melanie personally had with Lori are one thing, but Chandler investigators? That wowed me.

Maybe I should not have been surprised being they let so much about Brandon in.

Tammy is one of the victims that is a subject of this trial. Lori is charged with conspiring to murder her. So, I'm not surprised about that info coming out.

MOO

Ruminations · Apr 13, 2023

alexwood said:
I'm remembering that Lori did not know that she was not the beneficiary of Charles Vallow's life insurance policy until AFTER he was shot. In her mind, there would have been plenty incentive for her to see him dead.

Yeah. Weird. Maybe Lori lied to Melanie so she wouldn't suspect a motive aside from zombies or self defense?

Clearly, Lori was confident in her call to the insurance co.

MOO

scapa · Apr 13, 2023

Emi said:
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This account of dark spirits and zombies sounds a whole lot like the motifs that pop up in shows like Supernatural, where your average dark spirit / demon can be inhaled or exhaled like so much oily smoke.

It all seems a very patchwork and highly simplified theology, even when tethered to more mainstream LDS ideas. More like kids playing action figures than a religious system carefully worked out.

"You're a dark spirit!"

"No, you are!"

Except that this game led to child murder.

fred&edna · Apr 13, 2023

Ruminations said:
I'm surprised about so much detail into Charles' murder, too. The conversations Melanie personally had with Lori are one thing, but Chandler investigators? That wowed me.

Maybe I should not have been surprised being they let so much about Brandon in.

Tammy is one of the victims that is a subject of this trial. Lori is charged with conspiring to murder her. So, I'm not surprised about that info coming out.

MOO

I agree. I hope this doesn't have any (bad) legal repercussions.

alexwood · Apr 13, 2023

Ruminations said:
I'm surprised about so much detail into Charles' murder, too. The conversations Melanie personally had with Lori are one thing, but Chandler investigators? That wowed me.

Maybe I should not have been surprised being they let so much about Brandon in.

Tammy is one of the victims that is a subject of this trial. Lori is charged with conspiring to murder her. So, I'm not surprised about that info coming out.

MOO

Well, what's good for the goose, is sauce for the gander. Whatever comes up in this trial can be used later in the trial for Charles Vallow in Chandler, AZ. That one WILL be on camera (IMO).

indicolite22 · Apr 13, 2023

This evidence is pivotal to build this case against Lori. Now, we are getting a recording of a patriarchal blessing from Chad to Alex Cox. Also, it sounds like this detective is also an active LDS member with the description he just gave of a patriarchal blessing #LoriVallowtrial

indicolite22 · Apr 13, 2023

Lori is now ducked down behind the monitor on defense counsel's desk. This confirms my suspicion that the Church played a role in making sure cameras were not in the courtroom. This is a Latter-day Saint break off group. It would cause embarrassment and confusion in the media.

Onsdag · Apr 13, 2023

Idaho transplant said:
Yes, the defense Is LDS. The organization knows how this trial could reflect badly on them. The Mormon church does NOT like any negative press and it has the means and power to control the narrative. Idaho is second only to Utah in the political, educational and business influence this organization has on a state. It is a VERY secretive organization and this trial may bring to light issues that they don't want revealed.

Sorry, but your analysis is wrong. The defense may be members of the church (I don't know one way or the other really), but so are members of the prosecution, judge, jury, police, fbi, etc. I don't know the numbers but I'm going to go out on a limb and say 80-90% of the population of Idaho are members of the church.

There is no secret conspiracy, narrative, or agenda by the church in this matter. Nor does the church control its members. The church teaches its members to be good people, citizens, followers of Christ, and to obey the laws of the land.

Many members do practice what is preached. Sadly, there are others, just like in any society or religion, people like Lori and Chad, who don't live in harmony with the society and/or religion they claim to belong to.

I am a member of the church, as are many here who have been following this case from day one, and we have all been shocked, truly sickened and saddened, and dumbfounded by the details of this case. We have been fighting for justice for all the victims (who, by the way and lest we forget, were members of the Church also) and we won't stop.

JMHO.

mickey2942 · Apr 13, 2023

alexwood said:
Chad D-U-M-B-B-E-L-L, of "Iowa", bereaved "nephew" of Charles Vallow, a former baseball player (if I am not mistaken), calling to get a "Ballpark Price" (a/k/a "Cheapskate Rate") on having Charles cremated and his cremains shipped to "New Orleans", Louisiana.

What a buffoon.

Wow, I can't believe that he did that! Complete lies. Every single thing. Amazing work that the investigation found this. This ties him directly into the conspiracy. Of course, they want the cheapest plan.

"Cremains" indeed. Who even knows that word?!

Ruminations · Apr 13, 2023

fred&edna said:
I agree. I hope this doesn't have any (bad) legal repercussions.

It appears it was already discussed motioned and ruled on before trial. It sounds like the prosecution was allowed to bring it in because it shows a pattern to the crimes, a pattern that Lindsey introduced in opening statements.

MOO

Emi · Apr 13, 2023

Emi · Apr 13, 2023

indicolite22 · Apr 13, 2023

About the recording of Chad's patriarchal blessing for Alex:

When it says "I see you gathering little children in your arms" several members of the jury kind of gave a look of shock. #LoriVallow
@LawCrimeNetwork

ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow - Tylee Ryan - Tammy Daybell - Charles Vallow - *Arrests* #69

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ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow - Tylee Ryan - Tammy Daybell - Charles Vallow - Arrests #69