ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell, Charles Vallow *Arrests* #72
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easier this way
'The diagram has markings that represent bruises on Tammy's arms and chest. There were 6 bruises on the front of her body. On the back there were 4 bruise
Bruising: Left front - bicep and collarbone area Right - 3 on upper arm, and one on the forearm
Bruising on the back - 2 on back of arm behind tricep area & 2 on the back of the forearm
No bruising on the lower body
They are going to show photos of the bruising taken at autopsy.
A couple will not be on the big screen - I think they're revealing in the chest area
A purple looking bruise is shown on screen. 2nd photo shows the cluster of bruises
Back of R forearm shows round bruises
I am no medical examiner but these look like bruises from a hand
They made an incision in the arm showing hemorrhage and took a tissue sample of the area
They show the sample they took from her arm. It shows the injury progression. Hemorrhage is the initial stage. All of the bruisings showed only hemorrhage which means they were prior to her death. Once circulation stops it doesn't hemorrhage
He points out the hemorrhage on the screen. Subcutaneous fat is normally yellow - this is dark showing bleeding
Photo of sample taken from her right forearm. You see bright yellow subcutaneous fat but also bleeding which meant it was a fresh bruise.
all from
@PrettyLiesAlibi
Chart from HTC ( not the actual chart, Lauren's sketch)
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Hilton Garden Inn is a national hotel chain. I've stayed there in Minneapolis, New Orleans, and Portland.Looks like a hotel (with a grille & bar)
Hilton Garden Inn Idaho Falls Hotel in Idaho
Hilton Garden Inn Idaho Falls lies along the banks of the Snake River. Enjoy many amenities including complimentary WiFi, a fitness center and an indoor pool.www.hilton.com
I think Chad is large enough to overpower Tammy, perhaps straddling her with his knees keeping her arms pinned down. I'm not sure if these bruises were described as small or not, like finger grip marks? But bruising on her chest and back sounds like more than gripping her arms.
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Being the twitter addict I've become, I see lots of people saying: wait! If pulmonary edema isn't a cause of death- then what about Alex?
Alex had pulmonary embolism. It's different.
It makes sense to me that asphyxiation is what is left after other things that can cause breathing to be interrupted are eliminated. Like heart disease, PE seizures, a fatal injury or OD on opioids. A person can accidentally get something lodged in their throat. Any can cause breathing to stop. But if none of that kind of thing is found- the ME looks at a manual interruption of breathing.
Sometimes it can be obvious what the manual interruption was- if the person is hanged or was obviously throttled. Or had a bag duct taped to him.
I'm getting the impression that a good ME looks for things like disease or poison or injury even when manual asphyxiation looks to be caused by something obvious- like choking on food or hanging.MOO
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next tweets from Gigi
They're not admitting some photos but will show the closeup of the skin once the sample has been taken and showing bleeding. There was no inflammatory response with any of these so that told him these were fresh.
He noticed lividity which is a normal post mortem change where after circulation ceases the blood settles into the lowest portion of the body assisted by gravity - starts 60-90 min after death
He says if they lay on their back a couple of hours and then were rolled over it would redistribute to the front side. Over time - say 12 instead of 2 there isn't redistribution of the blood because it's fixed
Shortly after death lividity can go away entirely if moved but not as much as time passes
@PrettyLiesAlibi
They're not admitting some photos but will show the closeup of the skin once the sample has been taken and showing bleeding. There was no inflammatory response with any of these so that told him these were fresh.
He noticed lividity which is a normal post mortem change where after circulation ceases the blood settles into the lowest portion of the body assisted by gravity - starts 60-90 min after death
He says if they lay on their back a couple of hours and then were rolled over it would redistribute to the front side. Over time - say 12 instead of 2 there isn't redistribution of the blood because it's fixed
Shortly after death lividity can go away entirely if moved but not as much as time passes
@PrettyLiesAlibi
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what did Brenda put for Tammy? I can't rememberBeing the twitter addict I've become, I see lots of people saying: wait! If pulmonary edema isn't a cause of death- then what about Alex?
Alex had pulmonary embolism. It's different.
It makes sense to me that asphyxiation is what is left after other things that can cause breathing to be interrupted are eliminated. Like heart disease, PE seizures, a fatal injury or OD on opioids. A person can accidentally get something lodged in their throat. Any can cause breathing to stop. But if none of that kind of thing is found- the ME looks at a manual interruption of breathing.
Sometimes it can be obvious what the manual interruption was- if the person is hanged or was obviously throttled. Or had a bag duct taped to him.
MOO
Even though I can't hear this Utah path, am feeling far more confident in his assessments than the Dr Warren who performed JJ & T's
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@PrettyLiesAlibi
'He is now explaining rigor mortis (stiffening) over time it is fully developed 12 hours after death and will stay stiff until decomposition begins.
Lividity, rigor mortis, body temp can help narrow a window for a time of death but the longer someone is dead it's harder to get a time frame.
Tammy's death was reported just before 6AM and was described as being stiff and cold. That told him - OBJECTION - sustained (he wasn't there the morning of her death)
He relies on other's observations to determine a timeline of death. With rigor mortis, that's at least an hour or two and maybe longer they've been dead. He says he doesn't think it was 5:30-5:45 AM but earlier
The bruises played into his cause of death since it's consistent to being restrained.
Lindsey Blake is finished with direct. They're going to show the jury the photos that weren't put on the big screen. We saw the close-ups of them.'
'He is now explaining rigor mortis (stiffening) over time it is fully developed 12 hours after death and will stay stiff until decomposition begins.
Lividity, rigor mortis, body temp can help narrow a window for a time of death but the longer someone is dead it's harder to get a time frame.
Tammy's death was reported just before 6AM and was described as being stiff and cold. That told him - OBJECTION - sustained (he wasn't there the morning of her death)
He relies on other's observations to determine a timeline of death. With rigor mortis, that's at least an hour or two and maybe longer they've been dead. He says he doesn't think it was 5:30-5:45 AM but earlier
The bruises played into his cause of death since it's consistent to being restrained.
Lindsey Blake is finished with direct. They're going to show the jury the photos that weren't put on the big screen. We saw the close-ups of them.'
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I don't think it's the trial.
At least- having the Dr. Mark bruises on a chart isn't weird. If I were on the jury id rather use the chart for some things- considering how she might have been restrained- and the photos for others- does it look like a knee or a finger? Who wants to look at the autopsy photo when a chart will do the trick?
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Hi Everyone,
If we haven't met before my name is Tricia and I am the owner of Websleuths.com
Thank you for coming to Websleuths to continue the discussion of the Daybell/Vallow murder trial.
I really need your help. I am so confused I feel like my head is going to explode. I have several questions I am trying to answer.
If someone can link to any timelines already put together that would help.
Sept 8th is when Tylee was killed and Alex phone was pinging between his and Lori's apartment correct?.
Then Sept.9 is when they buried Tylee on Chad's property right?
I'm sorry to interrupt but I am trying to keep track of several big cases going on. We do a livestream Monday through Saturday and it can be a bit overwhelming.
If you would rather email me feel free to do so. [email protected]
Tonight (May 1st) on our livestream we are also remembering v0x. His was one wonderful mods or recently passed. I hope you will join us at 10:30 PM Eastern
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Thank you very much!
Tricia
If we haven't met before my name is Tricia and I am the owner of Websleuths.com
Thank you for coming to Websleuths to continue the discussion of the Daybell/Vallow murder trial.
I really need your help. I am so confused I feel like my head is going to explode. I have several questions I am trying to answer.
If someone can link to any timelines already put together that would help.
Sept 8th is when Tylee was killed and Alex phone was pinging between his and Lori's apartment correct?.
Then Sept.9 is when they buried Tylee on Chad's property right?
I'm sorry to interrupt but I am trying to keep track of several big cases going on. We do a livestream Monday through Saturday and it can be a bit overwhelming.
If you would rather email me feel free to do so. [email protected]
Tonight (May 1st) on our livestream we are also remembering v0x. His was one wonderful mods or recently passed. I hope you will join us at 10:30 PM Eastern
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Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
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Tricia
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She put pulmonary edema.
Dr. Christianson (sp.?) says that pulmonary edema is a finding, not a cause of death. One thing that could cause it is seizures, so Dr. C. carefully explained why he didn't think she had a seizure. Brenda Dye asked about seizures, and Chad gave a "That's the ticket!" type response. He suddenly recalled leg tremors.
MOO
Possibly. But, there's that saying, "a picture is worth a thousand words (or blue pen marks
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Twitter is a bit flaky at the moment so the search doesn't seem to be working properly or I would look for you.
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Yeah- defense did bring that up- but they were cynically trying to imply her time if death was more like 5:00AM or whenever she "fell."
They were trying to remove the time of death from communication flurries.
MOO
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