ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell, Charles Vallow *Arrests* #73

[Niner]

Thursday, May 4th:
*Trial continues (Day 17) (@ 8:30am – 3:30pm MT) – ID – Joshua Jaxon (JJ) Vallow (7) & Tylee Ashlyn Ryan (16) (JJ last seen Sept. 23, 2019 & Tylee on Sept. 9, 2019, Rexburg; found June 9, 2020 buried in Daybell’s yard in Salem, ID) – *Lori Norene Vallow aka Lori Norene Daybell (46/now 49) arrested (in Kauai, Hawaii on 2/20/20) & indicted & charged (5/25/21) & re-arraigned (4/19/22) with Count 1 (for Tylee): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception (for Daybell, Vallow & Alex Cox) & other co-conspirators. Count 2 (for Tylee): 1st degree murder. Count 3 (for JJ): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception. Count 4 (for JJ): 1st degree murder. Count 5 (for Tammy): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder. Count 6: Lori only: Grand theft (related to social security survivor benefits allocated for the care of minors Tylee & JJ). Plead not guilty. DA will seek DP. Was transferred to Ada County jail on 3/22/23. Fremont County
Conspiracy to commit destruction, alteration or concealment of evidence charges dismissed without prejudice on 7/29/21. Fremont County
Resisting or obstructing LE, solicitation of a crime & contempt of court. All charges were dismissed on 1/3/22. Madison County
Trial began on 4/3/23 with jury selection & ended 4/7/23. 12 jurors & 6 alternates (10 men & 8 women).
Trial began on 4/10/23 (thru 6/9/23) @ 8:30am to 3:30pm. Trial will be held in Ada County. (will last about 10 weeks) Trials have been severed.
Arrest & Grand Jury & Competency & Court info from 3/5/20 thru 3/30/23 & Jury Selection Day 1-5 (4/3-4/7/23) & Trial Day 1-15 (4/10-5/2/23) reference post #29 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ybell-charles-vallow-arrests-73.676467/page-2
5/3/23 Wednesday, Trial Day 16: State witness: Audrey Barattiero, friend of Lori's.
For more info see post #111 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ybell-charles-vallow-arrests-73.676467/page-6
State witness: Fremont County Detective Vince Kaaiakamanu.
For more info see post #150 [pg 8] & 277 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-73.676467/page-14
State witness: Ian Pawlowski.
For more info see post #278 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-73.676467/page-14
Trial continues on Thursday, 5/4/23 @ 8:30am & ends every day at 3:30pm.
*Chad Guy Daybell (53/now 54) – Pretrial motions hearing on 3/2/23. Trial was set to begin on 4/3/23 was vacated.

 

[KonaHonu]

She also seems like a very caring person. She was willing to stay with Melani in HI, though Melani wasn't especially her friend, and Aubrey wanted to go home. This seems way above and beyond.

IMO she was a good friend to these other women, and a nice person, but perhaps overly willingly to override her intuition and discomfort.

I think she had Chad on the brain. And I mean in the fangirl sense. Chad has 20 years on her. Not unheard of for a romance but not common for a girl in her late 20s (in 2018) to fall for a guy pushing 50. Not judging, just saying.

 

[cottonweaver]

Why the eye roll? She gives me a headache in under eight syllables.

MOO

because he's married to Mel P
who gives you a headache? Lauren Mathias?

 

[KonaHonu]

or worried what the Bishop might think? ( he was still exec sec to the Bishop)

Coincidentally, I am just re- reading some of Mel P's comments as I guess she's up next & she's claiming people in LDS remarry super-quick. IDK if that is really true.

You may be right. But it is really hard for me to believe the LDS church encourages this. I'm happily divorced. But I was definitely not in a place mentally to get remarried within days or weeks of being able to. Too much baggage on a new relationship and it takes time to process everything. The church wants lasting marriages and leadership almost certainly understands that remarrying after a few days does not lead to that. But again, I'm not LDS so please correct me if I am wrong. Definitely people like the Todd and Alice were pretty shocked at how fast things happened. As I pointed out in a post a few minutes ago, quick marriages were very common in the cult.

 

[KonaHonu]

I think he promised her that if she killed Charles, he would kill Tammy and they would immediately be together. i do think he was ready to wimp out. I think Lori got to Idaho and made sure he moved in right away.

That makes sense. But where is the evidence?

 

[KonaHonu]

So the morning after their wedding IP say MBP told him everything. Why didn't one of the lawyers ask him under oath "Ok, tell us everything she told you."

 

[cottonweaver]

thanks for link, just starting to listen to the first part of it now.

At around 21 minutes AB says - while they're ' working on' Tammy because L had told them Tammy was possessed by a spirit which needed to be taken out - that she'd never heard of this kind of thing before ( casting out a spirit) but hasn't Tammy just testified that they'd previously been involved in something similar for Charles? So she had heard about this before

At around 19 mins AB has already testified that Chad explained dark light & Lori already told her Charles was a zombie but later at end of friendship on Lori started to mention other zombies incl Charles, Tylee & JJ & Mel B's kids

PS I appreciate witness list sealed but do people think that AB was ever on the Defence's witness list?

 

[KonaHonu]

This is kind of off topic with what is being discussed right now but just wanted to add some questions I've been pondering.
1) Do you believe CD really cared for LVD? Or was she simply a means to substantial income (or so he thought) and he would use any woman who came along and fall for his tricks?
2) Do you believe LVD and AC were involved in an inappropriate and intimate relationship during the times the murders occurred? It is absolutely disgusting but I could see her using his attraction to her to get him to do her bidding. MOO.
3) Is their some significance for Narcon being in ACs system during autopsy? Anyone else find his death to be suspicious?

Only my opinions:
1) I think he was generally smitten with her. She is probably the "hottest" girl who ever gave him the time of day. And the fact that she worshipped him did not hurt.

2) I'm not sure about LVD and AC. It is difficult for me to believe something like that happens but we've heard so many weird sexual things about this family from relatives etc. that it would not surprise me. But they were rarely together at night so there is that. Not that booty calls only happen at night of course.

3) I did not recall Narcan being in ACs system BUT if an opiod overdose were suspected by first responders, Zulema's kid or Zulema it would have been administered just in case. I have some first responder training and carry Narcan. If I discovered an unresponsive middle-aged man with no obvious signs of trauma and experiencing respiratory distress, I'd give both my doses before even calling 911 or starting CPR! So my guess is that the first EMT/paramedic gave a dose of Narcan immediately on arrival just in case. There really is no harm in doing so.

 

[cottonweaver]

After reading her testimony I immediately wondered if maybe, somehow Chad got to her and directed her to lie to make Lori the one who carried out the murders.

He'd have to do that via his lawyer as his comms are monitored.
When or if you listen to AB's testimony, worth looking out for any sense of resentment to Chad or is it mainly to Lori?

 

[indicolite22]

So the morning after their wedding IP say MBP told him everything. Why didn't one of the lawyers ask him under oath "Ok, tell us everything she told you."

Wouldn't that be introducing hearsay? MBP is not (officially) one of the co-conspirators.

 

[indicolite22]

I think he promised her that if she killed Charles, he would kill Tammy and they would immediately be together. i do think he was ready to wimp out. I think Lori got to Idaho and made sure he moved in right away.

They had Alex kill Charles and were going to use him for Tammy. Lori moved to Rexburg so she and Chad could be together every day behind Tammy's back, until Alex did the job. They were planning another shooting after his failed attempt.

 

[KonaHonu]

He'd have to do that via his lawyer as his comms are monitored.
When or if you listen to AB's testimony, worth looking out for any sense of resentment to Chad or is it mainly to Lori?

He would have to do it through his lawyer but that would not be very hard

The women i Chad's orbit, with the possible exception of Tammy, seem to be easily influenced, Just my opinion

 

[KonaHonu]

Wouldn't that be introducing hearsay? MBP is not (officially) one of the co-conspirators.

Sure, fine, so call MP, ask her the question then call IP back to rebut if needed

 

[SteveS]

About AB's shocking revelation at the end ...
1 Because of its "oh by the way" nature it was presented, coming up only on re-direct, and it never being mentioned when she testified to the GJ, if I was a juror it not only makes me doubt the truth of that testimony, but also want to reconsider the reliability everything she's testifying.
... As an aside, the nature of this testimony, and the fact it was hidden from the defense, and that they still allowed the testimony and witness into the trial, I think that has significant potential to be problematic later. Just saying.
2 This testimony as it was offered reminds me that AB, as well as all those others who are testifying, have an agenda of their own, especially when they are someone who ran in the circles of these on trial for multiple murders, people whose ideas about other humans are way out there. 'What can I say to distance myself from any personal blowback?'
3 I also can't see Lori, in the wake of Tammy's death, and while trying to keep kids' whereabouts under wraps, telling a friend bluntly that 'If you cross me, I'll kill you next.' That would have been the mindset that was supposedly conveyed. JMO.
4 At the same time, I do think Lori would be that dangerous, and not someone a person would be wise to cross. I do think she sees everyone as readily expendable.

 

[cottonweaver]

AP's testimony. ( Am still only at the first part)
first impressions so far - not at all what I expected ( Yesterday members were saying she was most highly rated on Chad's chart & that might be due to AB's gullibility. So I imagined she was going to come across as a ditzy young woman + 'unicorns and rainbows', easily suckered by Chad back when she was late 20s. )
She doesn't come across as gullible as I listen to her. not ' Her answers are composed and she never says too much, occasionally guarded, she's articulate. IMO less nervous than Z was, last week.
I think that the jury will believe her ( but I haven't got to the ' bombshell' part of the tape yet)

Anyway, back to the audio.
At 28mins - 30 mins, she expresses emotion - there's some gaspy pauses & some sniffles - at Tammy's death but when I scroll back, it appears she met Tammy only once - the same amount of times she'd met JJ & Tylee. So I wonder why she is overcome here.
( Allegations not in evidence are that AB was also a wife in a previous probation, Chad told AB. From HTC)


this video has, by mistake, a repeat of same testimony. Cross by defence starts around 1hr 15, haven't been able to listen to that yet but in the first minute or so, quite the vocal change

 

[Kemug]

Well, with my powers of prediction, I am going to make a bold statement: Lori and Audrey will never be friends again. Trust me!

 

[Nikynoo]

They had Alex kill Charles and were going to use him for Tammy. Lori moved to Rexburg so she and Chad could be together every day behind Tammy's back, until Alex did the job. They were planning another shooting after his failed attempt.

So why didn’t they go forward with another shooting? Why the change of plan? Could it be that Tammy was supposed to go out that evening and didn’t?

 

[k-mac]

1) Do you believe CD really cared for LVD? Or was she simply a means to substantial income (or so he thought) and he would use any woman who came along and fall for his tricks?

rsff

Don't know if Chad cared truly about LVD....

But the 'loin fire' was indeed off the charts into the stratosphere.

 

[Quim The Extraordinaire]

So why didn’t they go forward with another shooting? Why the change of plan? Could it be that Tammy was supposed to go out that evening and didn’t?

Maybe it’s that the 911 calls were made after the failed “paintball” shooting. IIRC, the neighbor (son-in-law?) happened to be outside and made the first call.

Tammy had a low-risk lifestyle — long-married LDS librarian whose social engagement was focused on clogging/fitness, family and church activities. Who would serially stalk and murder her at her fairly rural house?*

Despite Lori and Alex having skated (at the time) on Alex’s murder, the conspirators would have realized that there would be major heat on Chad (the husband) if Tammy were shot and killed.

Much easier to stage a natural death, and they might have succeeded absent all the other murders and deaths.

My speculation only.

*No victim should be blamed. In Tammy’s case, the husband/life insurance beneficiary would have been under laser focus had she been murdered.

 

[k-mac]

About AB's shocking revelation at the end ...
1 Because of its "oh by the way" nature it was presented, coming up only on re-direct, and it never being mentioned when she testified to the GJ, if I was a juror it not only makes me doubt the truth of that testimony, but also want to reconsider the reliability everything she's testifying.
... As an aside, the nature of this testimony, and the fact it was hidden from the defense, and that they still allowed the testimony and witness into the trial, I think that has significant potential to be problematic later. Just saying.
2 This testimony as it was offered reminds me that AB, as well as all those others who are testifying, have an agenda of their own, especially when they are someone who ran in the circles of these on trial for multiple murders, people whose ideas about other humans are way out there. 'What can I say to distance myself from any personal blowback?'
3 I also can't see Lori, in the wake of Tammy's death, and while trying to keep kids' whereabouts under wraps, telling a friend bluntly that 'If you cross me, I'll kill you next.' That would have been the mindset that was supposedly conveyed. JMO.
4 At the same time, I do think Lori would be that dangerous, and not someone a person would be wise to cross. I do think she sees everyone as readily expendable.

yes 'the story' is lacking cohesion.
And the performance was soaked in syrupy creepy sauce.

I put it down to the usual suspect. Self preservation.

These people are loopti-loop....and they know that we know.

There is big gaps here that tell of a large elephant in the room.

My guess...AB participation of some sort in the dramatic side show alley.
The prosecution must know what it is and were in a hurry to rush through it/ past it...imo.