ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell, Charles Vallow *Arrests* #73

[indicolite22]

Do we know the name of AB's attorney? Does it start with G?

 

[cottonweaver]

Why did Lori get agitated after Tammy's death?

Good question.
I think this is one of those testimonies that we're going to have to listen to on the audio uploads to see if there's any hint in the way Audrey related this

IDK if Audrey is using that to justify what she said later eg ' I was uncomfortable' followed by the bombshell or whether it's a hindsight type comment. Or whether she genuinely was uncomfortable at the time.

re the question you're asking, taking it at face value yes it could be due to a conversation with Chad ( Chad has said maybe the wedding should wait a couple more weeks? or ' I'm not sure that I should move out of mine and into yours so quickly, it might look bad')
IDK. Why did L rush back, leaving Melani there in Hawaii. Some kind of urgency

 

[formerlyme]

Good question.
I think this is one of those testimonies that we're going to have to listen to on the audio uploads to see if there's any hint in the way Audrey related this

IDK if Audrey is using that to justify what she said later eg ' I was uncomfortable' followed by the bombshell or whether it's a hindsight type comment. Or whether she genuinely was uncomfortable at the time.

re the question you're asking, taking it at face value yes it could be due to a conversation with Chad ( Chad has said maybe the wedding should wait a couple more weeks? or ' I'm not sure that I should move out of mine and into yours so quickly, it might look bad')
IDK. Why did L rush back, leaving Melani there in Hawaii. Some kind of urgency

I think he decided to stay put a little longer for HIS kids, since they were still around.

 

[Ruminations]

I didn't quite follow what prompted the threats. Lori laughed at her for being gullible and then out of the blue threatened to kill her? What was said in between? Did Lori sense that AB was leaving the group or questioning their teachings? Or was she jealous (AB is younger than her)?

I think Audrey testified to asking a gentle accusatory question along the lines of, "Is something funny going on here?"

This is so bizarre. There is no reason to doubt the defense's assertion that she had not testified to this before the grand jury.

I won't commit to it being truthful. These are cult people who do not get their needs met in wholesome ways.

Still, I lean towards it being truthful. Wwith the passage of time I would think embarrassment from being called a baby would decrease. After the reasonable gap of time from the grand jury testimony to correct the record was already long passed, that should get easier and easier, too. (Although I doubt it was easy!) I think with time she is more likely to reason that leaving that out will haunt her for longer than admitting to perjury. She didn't "that's the ticket" when defense suggested she'd be put in a bag- she corrected slightly, "she mentioned bags." Audrey also said something about bleach, which is not a known theme to me. She testified that Lori said something like the children didn't see blood, which could have been a partial defense of the murders.

Still. She's a grown woman. She should know better than to drop that into testimony without warning, for her own protection. If it's a lie, it's a huge one and she could be in a lot of trouble. If her grand jury testimony was incomplete, she should negotiate with an attorney to correct it with as little punishment as possible.

Also, prosecutors could minimize the impact of the conflict from grand jury testimony with preparation. They could have questioned her about the change, and she'd have a chance to explain.

MOO

 

[cottonweaver]

I'm not sure I believe ZP about the massage. It's a little too convenient to paint herself as a possible victim.

It's the perfect deflection. When the world thinks you might be a co-conspirator, better to say that you were a potential victim. Not saying that Z deliberately concocted the story to mislead but psychologically she might have felt the need to reinterpret that night.
If one wanted to be less generous one might say it's a part of the narcissism ? (wtte of ' OMG It could have been me next')

Anyway Z came across better at trial than I'd expected. I think she is ashamed of her involvement now.

 

[indicolite22]

Good question.
I think this is one of those testimonies that we're going to have to listen to on the audio uploads to see if there's any hint in the way Audrey related this

IDK if Audrey is using that to justify what she said later eg ' I was uncomfortable' followed by the bombshell or whether it's a hindsight type comment. Or whether she genuinely was uncomfortable at the time.

re the question you're asking, taking it at face value yes it could be due to a conversation with Chad ( Chad has said maybe the wedding should wait a couple more weeks? or ' I'm not sure that I should move out of mine and into yours so quickly, it might look bad')
IDK. Why did L rush back, leaving Melani there in Hawaii. Some kind of urgency

I didn't quite understand what AB was uncomfortable with enough to leave, except for the castings, but she participated in multiple ones.

It's possible that Tammy's relatives started having suspicions about her death, but they didn't know about Lori yet, so perhaps not.

 

[Ruminations]

If MP has a similar story as AB, or if AB told MP the bombshell story close to the time it happened, it's game over for LVD.

ETA, or told anyone else.

Well, this was apparently a surprise to the prosecutors, too. So I doubt it.

UNLESS the problem with a witness referenced on 4-25 was MP changing her story.

MOO

 

[indicolite22]

Good question.
I think this is one of those testimonies that we're going to have to listen to on the audio uploads to see if there's any hint in the way Audrey related this

IDK if Audrey is using that to justify what she said later eg ' I was uncomfortable' followed by the bombshell or whether it's a hindsight type comment. Or whether she genuinely was uncomfortable at the time.

re the question you're asking, taking it at face value yes it could be due to a conversation with Chad ( Chad has said maybe the wedding should wait a couple more weeks? or ' I'm not sure that I should move out of mine and into yours so quickly, it might look bad')
IDK. Why did L rush back, leaving Melani there in Hawaii. Some kind of urgency

IIRC, Chad moved in with Lori right after Tammy's funeral and that's when she returned from Hawaii.

 

[cottonweaver]

I think he decided to stay put a little longer for HIS kids, since they were still around.

or worried what the Bishop might think? ( he was still exec sec to the Bishop)

Coincidentally, I am just re- reading some of Mel P's comments as I guess she's up next & she's claiming people in LDS remarry super-quick. IDK if that is really true.

eta
will add Mel P transcripts into a new post in case anybody interested, before she testifies

 

[Nikynoo]

Why did Lori get agitated after Tammy's death?

I would imagine that in the days before, it would have been in anticipation of things not going to plan or that Chad would wimp out. In the days after, probably concerned about Chad being found out?

 

[aafromaa]

Wait…What????

Aubrey says LV threatened to cut her up into pieces and said there would be blood & bleach & trashbags and it never came up in grand jury testimony or even on direct exam today but comes up at the last minutes of her testimony on cross? Really?

I couldn’t blame her for being scared of LVD back in 2019 or maybe even at the grand jury hearing but if she was going to share that today, why not on direct? I’m not sure the prosecution knew of this or perhaps they thought it too unbelievable to ask about since it wasn’t disclosed before???

I think my first step would have been to forget my things upstairs and get out of that house and to a police station asap…but even if I didn’t do that then, after all this time - after two dead spouse and two dead children, I’m certain I would have called and spoken to Rexburg PD about it by now.

I think I’d have a hard time believing this if I was on the jury and it might prevent me from believing anything else this witness said…maybe…or maybe I’m just in shock and have to think about that more

Quoting & replying to my own post here because for some reason I could not edit it..

Another poster has explained that this statement was not in grand jury testimony because the witness took the 5th but that it was in FBI witness statements so my original concern about the validity of it has been satisfied.

My question now is this…how does prosecution explain to the jury what the the other WS poster has explained to me?

I had no idea about her taking the 5th or the FBI interview including it and jumped to the wrong conclusion about the witness. I don’t want to see the jury left with that same impression.

Also why were witnesses taking the 5th during grand jury proceedings? I think I’ve read where others did too but I’m not sure what they were afraid they would say that would incriminate them. Is it about being present at the castings? I can see where that might make people have some doubts about them but don’t really see how their attendance would be incriminating as in involving the in a conspiracy. Would it?

 

[indicolite22]

It's the perfect deflection. When the world thinks you might be a co-conspirator, better to say that you were a potential victim. Not saying that Z deliberately concocted the story to mislead but psychologically she might have felt the need to reinterpret that night.
If one wanted to be less generous one might say it's a part of the narcissism ? (wtte of ' OMG It could have been me next')

Anyway Z came across better at trial than I'd expected. I think she is ashamed of her involvement now.

ZP is a chameleon, IMO. Always saying the right things to the right audience.

 

[cottonweaver]

@Tortoise's transcript and TLine

have bolded a bit of it, due to the contrast, Mel G to EIN, Mel P to dateline


EIN:-
NE: What did you think when you found out Chad and Lori quickly fled to Hawaii? Didn’t you find out because she sent you the wedding photos on your email?
MG: “I knew that they were going to be married like as soon as she passed away. Their whole goal was to get together because they expressed to me many times that Tammy would be okay with this as she passed on. She had a mission to fulfil on that side, so they both felt that that was where she was supposed to go...”


Dateline (ep.2 May 2020) :-
KM: “Lori’s son CR didn’t even know about it [the wedding].”
CR: “I saw the pictures of them and just the dancing and just knowing that they are there alone, both of them having so much family, and they just cut, there’s no words for it.”

KM: “Why the sudden marriage to Chad?”
MBP: “I can’t answer why they got married quick. I don’t know if uh, both being able to share that common ground of being a recent widow, I don’t, I can’t speculate”
KM: “VERY recent”
MBP: “It is, it’s fast but I can’t..”
KM: “and a very recent widower, I mean my Lord!”
MBP: “Yeah,”
KM: “Two weeks after his wife died Chad married? You’d think that was planned somehow, wouldn’t you?”
MBP: “Um I know in the, um, our faith sometimes it’s really fast. If you know, and, um, feel right about it, there’s no sense in dating around with tons of people.”

Link for those ^

ID - Joshua Vallow & Tylee Ryan, Rexburg, Sept 2019 TIMELINE ONLY - *NO DISCUSSION*

Detailed Case Timeline Part VIII of XXI (Update 10) 12 July 2019 TO 31 August 2019 FOUND DECEASED: Joshua Jaxson “JJ” Vallow & Tylee Ashlyn Ryan Arrested: Lori Norene (Cox) Vallow/Daybell and Chad Guy Daybell 12 July 2019, 4:36 pm – Lori sends a group text to Charles' 2 adult sons: “Hi boys...

www.websleuths.com

 

[Ruminations]

It's the perfect deflection. When the world thinks you might be a co-conspirator, better to say that you were a potential victim. Not saying that Z deliberately concocted the story to mislead but psychologically she might have felt the need to reinterpret that night.
If one wanted to be less generous one might say it's a part of the narcissism ? (wtte of ' OMG It could have been me next')

Anyway Z came across better at trial than I'd expected. I think she is ashamed of her involvement now.

I believe Z mostly- and I think she is more sincerely trying to put justice ahead of herself. She is light years ahead of Melanie and David in my opinion in that way.

But while I think the others are not as justice focused, I doubt they are criminals.

MOO

 

[Nikynoo]

Good question.
I think this is one of those testimonies that we're going to have to listen to on the audio uploads to see if there's any hint in the way Audrey related this

IDK if Audrey is using that to justify what she said later eg ' I was uncomfortable' followed by the bombshell or whether it's a hindsight type comment. Or whether she genuinely was uncomfortable at the time.

re the question you're asking, taking it at face value yes it could be due to a conversation with Chad ( Chad has said maybe the wedding should wait a couple more weeks? or ' I'm not sure that I should move out of mine and into yours so quickly, it might look bad')
IDK. Why did L rush back, leaving Melani there in Hawaii. Some kind of urgency

Or perhaps she was worried that someone else would nab Chad, seeing as he was a new widower?

 

[cottonweaver]

I didn't quite understand what AB was uncomfortable with enough to leave, except for the castings, but she participated in multiple ones.

It's possible that Tammy's relatives started having suspicions about her death, but they didn't know about Lori yet, so perhaps not.

yes there must have been jungle drums or whisperings online & in private FB groups/AVOW or whatever

 

[Nikynoo]

ZP is a chameleon, IMO. Always saying the right things to the right audience.

IMO, most of that circle are and I’ll extend it to some of the witnesses we’ve heard this week too.

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

Yes in Revelations, referring to the Jews.

Actually Jews are only 1/12 of the 144,000 (tribe of Judah); the rest are from the remaining tribes of Israel. Since we as Christians are part of Israel, there will be plenty of us too. The purpose of the 144,000 according to the Bible is to encourage and evangelize during the tribulation, and they are protected (sealed) from the judgements.

Revelation 7 Study Bible

 

[indicolite22]

yes there must have been jungle drums or whisperings online & in private FB groups/AVOW or whatever

The AVOW owner was defending Chad up until the children's bodies were found on his property.

 

[Emi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1653837322369257472

https://twitter.com/x/status/1653837932808257536

https://twitter.com/x/status/1653838276154003457