GUILTY ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell, Charles Vallow *Arrests* #75

[squareandrabbet]

I personally believe it is noted many times in their documents that she refused to let them throw CD under the bus multiple times limiting their effectiveness. I also liked how the judge made her state on the record that she made the decision to not testify and to rest. She will still appeal and appeal I am sure.

Tis true! she transformed from a very pretty woman into a haggard shadow of her former self very quickly and it will get much worse--- she will deserve every line and wrinkle on her face, as her hair without dye becomes drab-- hopefully she will never see the light of day and get carried out in a pine box.

She’s starting to approximate a Shar-Pei.

I’m a few years older than Lori and still look younger.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Busy with life today and missed the verdict announcement, and just now catching up. Some notes:

1 Once this went to the jury, the eventual outcome seemed obvious to me. The evidence was significant, and there was a lot of it.
2 But I think the jury did a good job of getting to a decision so relatively quickly, faced with the mountain of a case (and multiple charges) they had to weigh. I was surprised (but happy!) they were so quick to see it.
3 I think LVD will get LWOP in Idaho, plus a hefty fine for the theft. She did way too much imo. Murder spree and killed several people, with more seeming to be contemplated. LWOP is for people who do extreme things like she did. Personally, I would want her to get MULTIPLE LWOP sentences to be served consecutively because I think every life is precious and needs to be given its justice, but that would be rare -- usually multiple sentences are served concurrently.
....Then again, these murderers and their plot was also rare, and imo she would have gotten the DP with this set of evidence, if not for the missteps of the prosecution in getting to trial that forced the removal of the DP option.

ABOUT CHAD
1 For those asking, his trial was being discussed for June 2024, in the last hearing. That appeared to them to be their earliest 12-week window that made sense.
2 I think CD will get the DP if he goes to trial. I don't assume he will be offered a deal for LWOP, but imo he would be smart to jump on it if they offer it. Then again, not sure he's smart enough to be aware that he only has one route to escape death row.

ABOUT ARIZONA
1 I was surprised that AZ is going to the expense of trying LVD and deciding so quickly. If she gets LWOP in ID, what would be the point and why spend the taxpaxers' money? Is this a quest to save face and make up for past errors? (Although, they HAVE done the investigative work already - their AZ people did testify in the ID trial.)
2 Like many of you, I do wonder if part of AZ's reasoning is a desire to lock up others in this murderous gang (see BP, Melanie). But not sure anyone else was in on the CV murder except LVD and Alex. Could there be more coming?
3 As to the AZ charges for LVD, I wonder if they might get upgraded to add a murder charge with a DP possibility. There was much more evidence for her active participation than in the ID murders, and even the possibility she did the killing herself (although that part would be really hard to prove).
4 For those wondering about whether she can get the DP for a conspiracy-to-murder charge in AZ, the answer is no, as Attorney Google provides this from an AZ law firm:
"If you are convicted of conspiracy to commit murder in Arizona, you may face harsh penalties that generally include jail time. A person convicted of conspiracy to commit first-degree murder may be sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole only after serving a minimum of 25 years of the sentence."

PS - Thanks to all of you who have shared thoughts in this case in this forum. Hearing your thinking was a gift, freely bestowed. Much appreciated!!

AZ screwed up and didn’t charge Lori for Charles death. If they had only INVESTIGATED, three people would still be alive: Tylee, JJ and Tammy. Lori and her brother would be in prison. She flashed a smile and the police bought it, even though Charles had told them she wanted to kill him. Shame on AZ! They better prosecute!!

 

[pizzaman12]

3 I think LVD will get LWOP in Idaho, plus a hefty fine for the theft. She did way too much imo. Murder spree and killed several people, with more seeming to be contemplated. LWOP is for people who do extreme things like she did. Personally, I would want her to get MULTIPLE LWOP sentences to be served consecutively because I think every life is precious and needs to be given its justice, but that would be rare -- usually multiple sentences are served concurrently.
....Then again, these murderers and their plot was also rare, and imo she would have gotten the DP with this set of evidence, if not for the missteps of the prosecution in getting to trial that forced the removal of the DP option.

ABOUT ARIZONA
1 I was surprised that AZ is going to the expense of trying her, and deciding so quickly. If she gets LWOP in ID, what would be the point and why spend the taxpaxers' money? Is this a quest to save face and make up for past errors? (Although, they HAVE done the investigative work already - their people did testify in the AZ trial.)
2 Like many of you, I do wonder if part of AZ's reasoning is a desire to lock up others in this murderous gang (see BP, Melanie). But not sure anyone else was in on the CV murder except LVD and Alex.


PS - Thanks to all of you who have shared thoughts in this case in this forum. Hearing your thinking was a gift, freely bestowed. Much appreciated!!

SBM-

3- I also think she'll get LWOP

1 & 2- I am concerned about the appeal on the speedy trial portion so I personally love a safety net. It wasn't quick. It's obvious by the immediate announcement by not only AZ but Kay, Larry, and others that this has been in the works and has been communicated.
Maybe AZ feels this is a way to show their support to handle additional parts that Idaho couldn't in such a complex case. (and/or to "right" their investigative efforts). Regardless, I'm thrilled.

PS- I always look for your posts as you always bring great info and thorough postings to the group, and that I appreciate!

 

[iamshadow21]

In tonight’s Dateline….. my observation - any death is so sad, and premeditated and of a child. And yet, the manner of death explained for the son JJ…… sure would have in my opinion been worthy of a Death Penalty qualifier. MOO

It was truly sadistic. I've said it before, all I could think of was the Otero family.

These killers had drugs and guns aplenty to kill JJ painlessly in his sleep. It's not like Tammy, where they were trying to make it look natural. Instead they chose slow asphyxiation while he was awake and aware and fighting for his life hard enough to bruise his arms and neck, to tear his own fingernails scratching at the bindings. If I believed in hell, I'd say there was a special place there reserved for them.

Tammy's death was also slow and terrifying, if my suspicion is correct and she was burked.

And Tylee, we know she had sharpforce injuries to the pelvis that, if they happened when she was alive, suggest her death was unnecessarily prolonged. But we will never know, because they tried so hard to destroy her, to disappear her completely.

These people... they're just cruel beyond belief. Their victims died afraid and confused, wondering what they did to deserve this. Nobody deserves to be killed, but these three killings were especially heinous, the victims were kind, loving, and beloved. They died for nothing except the vanity and greed of two people who decided they were entitled to do anything they liked, including murder. Despicable.

MOO

 

[fred&edna]

 

[KonaHonu]

ABOUT ARIZONA
1 I was surprised that AZ is going to the expense of trying LVD and deciding so quickly. If she gets LWOP in ID, what would be the point and why spend the taxpaxers' money? Is this a quest to save face and make up for past errors? (Although, they HAVE done the investigative work already - their AZ people did testify in the ID trial.)
2 Like many of you, I do wonder if part of AZ's reasoning is a desire to lock up others in this murderous gang (see BP, Melanie). But not sure anyone else was in on the CV murder except LVD and Alex. Could there be more coming?
3 As to the AZ charges for LVD, I wonder if they might get upgraded to add a murder charge with a DP possibility. There was much more evidence for her active participation than in the ID murders, and even the possibility she did the killing herself (although that part would be really hard to prove).
4 For those wondering about whether she can get the DP for a conspiracy-to-murder charge in AZ, the answer is no, as Attorney Google provides this from an AZ law firm:
"If you are convicted of conspiracy to commit murder in Arizona, you may face harsh penalties that generally include jail time. A person convicted of conspiracy to commit first-degree murder may be sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole only after serving a minimum of 25 years of the sentence."

PS - Thanks to all of you who have shared thoughts in this case in this forum. Hearing your thinking was a gift, freely bestowed. Much appreciated!!

As a long time Arizona resident I will make some observations based solely on my experience:

I wasn't surprised at all to see Arizona want to try her and now is the time to announce it to make the biggest splash. I think saving face is a part of their decision but I think we will see charges against MBP and possibly others in connection to the attempt on BB and possibly other crimes.

I don't think they will seek the DP in Arizona. While I think she conspired with Alex to kill Charles and will be convicted in Arizona, Arizona only seems to seek DP when there are multiple murders (in Arizona or as part of a crime spree) or when it is a child kidnapping with murder. I'm not saying they can't seek the DP is her case, just that my observation is that they usually do not in situations like this. She may also have several defenses in Arizona including self-defense

Arizona considers aggravating and mitigating factors that I will list below. Lori would obviously have a couple of the aggravating factors in Charles's murder but also a couple of mitigating factors including her mental state and the influence of Chad.

Here are the aggravating and mitigating factors Arizona considers (ARS 13-751)

1. The defendant has been convicted of another offense in the United States for which under Arizona law a sentence of life imprisonment or death was imposable.

2. The defendant has been or was previously convicted of a serious offense, whether preparatory or completed. Convictions for serious offenses committed on the same occasion as the homicide, or not committed on the same occasion but consolidated for trial with the homicide, shall be treated as a serious offense under this paragraph.

3. The defendant procured the commission of the offense by payment, or promise of payment, of anything of pecuniary value, or the defendant committed the offense as a result of payment, or a promise of payment, of anything of pecuniary value.

4. The defendant committed the offense in an especially heinous, cruel or depraved manner.

5. The defendant committed the offense while:

(a) In the custody of or on authorized or unauthorized release from the state department of corrections, a law enforcement agency or a county or city jail.

(b) On probation for a felony offense.

6. The defendant has been convicted of one or more other homicides, as defined in section 13-1101, that were committed during the commission of the offense.

7. The defendant was an adult at the time the offense was committed or was tried as an adult and the murdered person was under fifteen years of age, was an unborn child in the womb at any stage of its development or was seventy years of age or older.

8. The murdered person was an on duty peace officer who was killed in the course of performing the officer's official duties and the defendant knew, or should have known, that the murdered person was a peace officer.

9. The defendant committed the offense with the intent to promote, further or assist the objectives of a criminal street gang or criminal syndicate or to join a criminal street gang or criminal syndicate.

10. The defendant committed the offense to prevent a person's cooperation with an official law enforcement investigation, to prevent a person's testimony in a court proceeding, in retaliation for a person's cooperation with an official law enforcement investigation or in retaliation for a person's testimony in a court proceeding.

G. The trier of fact shall consider as mitigating circumstances any factors proffered by the defendant or the state that are relevant in determining whether to impose a sentence less than death, including any aspect of the defendant's character, propensities or record and any of the circumstances of the offense, including but not limited to the following:

1. The defendant's capacity to appreciate the wrongfulness of his conduct or to conform his conduct to the requirements of law was significantly impaired, but not so impaired as to constitute a defense to prosecution.

2. The defendant was under unusual and substantial duress, although not such as to constitute a defense to prosecution.

3. The defendant was legally accountable for the conduct of another under section 13-303, but his participation was relatively minor, although not so minor as to constitute a defense to prosecution.

4. The defendant could not reasonably have foreseen that his conduct in the course of the commission of the offense for which the defendant was convicted would cause, or would create a grave risk of causing, death to another person.

5. The defendant's age.

 

[Tricia]

I really appreciate everyone's participation. I love reading your opinions and how you all breakndown the evidence.
This is something that I lay awake thinking about. Where are Tammy's kids? Why are they not defending their mother? Could they really think, after all the evidence, their dad is innocent?
When you listen to the 911 call Garth makes to report his mother's death do you hear anything strange? I do. After a few seconds of talking to the 911 operator it sounds like he gives up. He says ,"I don't know" and then Chad jumps in and takes over the call. I think Chad told him what to say and he just couldn't do it.
Garth knows.
According to Nate Eaton from East Idaho News Garth testified in front of the grand jury. Why he was not called in Lori's trial I don't know. Listen and think about a scenario where Chad tells him what to say but he knows it's a lie. It fits IMO.
Finally, out of all the 911 calls over the years we have heard, when have you heard someone just fade out like this? Crying so hard they can't talk yes, so upset they can't stop talking yes, but to fade out after a few seconds by saying "I don't know"? The only thing that makes sense is Chad told Garth to lie and he just couldn't do it.
Thank you for reading my rant.
Tricia
PS here is the 911 call

 

[KonaHonu]

I really appreciate everyone's participation. I love reading your opinions and how you all breakndown the evidence.
This is something that I lay awake thinking about. Where are Tammy's kids? Why are they not defending their mother? Could they really think, after all the evidence, their dad is innocent?
When you listen to the 911 call Garth makes to report his mother's death do you hear anything strange? I do. After a few seconds of talking to the 911 operator it sounds like he gives up. He says ,"I don't know" and then Chad jumps in and takes over the call. I think Chad told him what to say and he just couldn't do it.
Garth knows.
According to Nate Eaton from East Idaho News Garth testified in front of the grand jury. Why he was not called in Lori's trial I don't know. Listen and think about a scenario where Chad tells him what to say but he knows it's a lie. It fits IMO.
Finally, out of all the 911 calls over the years we have heard, when have you heard someone just fade out like this? Crying so hard they can't talk yes, so upset they can't stop talking yes, but to fade out after a few seconds by saying "I don't know"? The only thing that makes sense is Chad told Garth to lie and he just couldn't do it.
Thank you for reading my rant.
Tricia
PS here is the 911 call

Thank YOU for running such a great forum! I first discovered Websleuths when the Dingbells, er, Daybells were hanging out in Hawaii where I live and have since followed a few cases. It is truly interesting to hear everyone's thoughts and theories on various cases. I consider myself pretty good at finding things online but there are some people here who are truly amazing at it!

You might be right. It's really hard to tell if Garth is just overwhelmed or hiding something as you suggest. But we will probably never know.

 

[Deleted member 287549]

Glad this was found guilty. She's lucky she didn't get the death penalty, which was most definitely deserved in this case. I noticed that she wasn't smiling/laughing (as in previous pictures) in the most recent pictures @ the trial - good. Life in prison is the least she should receive.

I hope CD gets a very serious punishment as well. AFAIC, he's as guilty as she is.

 

[squareandrabbet]

Thanks for posting!! I never saw Tylee and the wee baby one before... is that one of Melaniece’s daughters, do we know? The wee bow on the headband makes me think it’s not JJ.

 

[SteveS]

Where are Tammy's kids? Why are they not defending their mother? Could they really think, after all the evidence, their dad is innocent?

Obviously we can only speculate what is in their minds, but I'll offer some ideas --

1 All kids may not think alike ... Each of them may have thoughts that have changed, or are changing, over time. They only can respond to what they know. ... Any of them may not now feel the same as before.
2 They may be waiting until Chad has a chance to get his day in court, AND a chance to challenge the various assertions the state threw out with almost no challenge, before they speak out against him. He has had NO CHANCE to defend himself. None.
... We must remember Lori's passive attorneys barely questioned any of the big claims by the prosec. They offered NO witnesses to challenge ANY of the state's claims. While that leads to an easy win for the state, it sure hasn't given Chad any opportunity to push back on what is being said about him.
... Included in that virtually unchallenged set of assertions was the state's claim that Tammy was murdered after all, rather than dying of some malady. I suspect there will be quite a challenge to the reliability of that assertion when Chad goes to trial.
... In fact, I think there might also be a LOT of challenge to the texts and their claimed meaning and import in a trial with an aggressive set of defense attorneys.

Then what could be their view now, that doesn't yet see Chad as a murderer, including their mom?

We do know this -- BEFORE LORI'S TRIAL we saw Chad's kids in an interview, and they thought this was all Lori's doing. Evil Lori the seductress, and her murderous brother Alex who killed to suit her whims. IN THE TRIAL we saw a lot of lusty and wacky ideas, but besides the state's claims about Tammy, people killed were NOT really in Chad's world, ie Charles, Tylee, and JJ.

So to speculate on where they might be -- 'Why would Dad be involved in any of that? Yes, he was stupidly enamored with Lori the Devil Woman and he used wild ideas to try to seduce her, and that makes us mad, but that's not murder. If she murdered her people to chase him, that's on her. And the state's newer opinion on Tammy's death, that seems iffy. One of us was there when it happened. The state's claim has NOT been tested and tried well enough yet. Do we even believe it? Maybe she just died - that happens sometimes. Can't we allow Dad to give his side of the story, with a defense, before we turn on him?'

If that's where they are, I wouldn't hold it against them. They didn't do any of this, and their life has gotten very hard (and perhaps conflicted) through no fault of their own. And again, maybe some of them have turned against him already, and we just don't know it yet.

 

[iamshadow21]

Thanks for posting!! I never saw Tylee and the wee baby one before... is that one of Melaniece’s daughters, do we know? The wee bow on the headband makes me think it’s not JJ.

I think you're correct that it's not JJ. JJ was ten years her junior, and she looks older than ten, there.

MOO

 

[k-mac]

Obviously we can only speculate what is in their minds, but I'll offer some ideas --

1 All kids may not think alike ... Each of them may have thoughts that have changed, or are changing, over time. They only can respond to what they know. ... Any of them may not now feel the same as before.
2 They may be waiting until Chad has a chance to get his day in court, AND a chance to challenge the various assertions the state threw out with almost no challenge, before they speak out against him. He has had NO CHANCE to defend himself. None.
... We must remember Lori's passive attorneys barely questioned any of the big claims by the prosec. They offered NO witnesses to challenge ANY of the state's claims. While that leads to an easy win for the state, it sure hasn't given Chad any opportunity to push back on what is being said about him.
... Included in that virtually unchallenged set of assertions was the state's claim that Tammy was murdered after all, rather than dying of some malady. I suspect there will be quite a challenge to the reliability of that assertion when Chad goes to trial.
... In fact, I think there might also be a LOT of challenge to the texts and their claimed meaning and import in a trial with an aggressive set of defense attorneys.

Then what could be their view now, that doesn't yet see Chad as a murderer, including their mom?

We do know this -- BEFORE LORI'S TRIAL we saw Chad's kids in an interview, and they thought this was all Lori's doing. Evil Lori the seductress, and her murderous brother Alex who killed to suit her whims. IN THE TRIAL we saw a lot of lusty and wacky ideas, but besides the state's claims about Tammy, people killed were NOT really in Chad's world, ie Charles, Tylee, and JJ.

So to speculate on where they might be -- 'Why would Dad be involved in any of that? Yes, he was stupidly enamored with Lori the Devil Woman and he used wild ideas to try to seduce her, and that makes us mad, but that's not murder. If she murdered her people to chase him, that's on her. And the state's newer opinion on Tammy's death, that seems iffy. One of us was there when it happened. The state's claim has NOT been tested and tried well enough yet. Do we even believe it? Maybe she just died - that happens sometimes. Can't we allow Dad to give his side of the story, with a defense, before we turn on him?'

If that's where they are, I wouldn't hold it against them. They didn't do any of this, and their life has gotten very hard (and perhaps conflicted) through no fault of their own. And again, maybe some of them have turned against him already, and we just don't know it yet.

Texting Tammy about the racoon 'funtimes' the day they incinerated Tylee in HIS Backyard.
There is just no getting around his stupidity there in an attempted cover.

Can't wait to watch Prior try though .
funtimes!!

 

[indicolite22]

Obviously we can only speculate what is in their minds, but I'll offer some ideas --

1 All kids may not think alike ... Each of them may have thoughts that have changed, or are changing, over time. They only can respond to what they know. ... Any of them may not now feel the same as before.
2 They may be waiting until Chad has a chance to get his day in court, AND a chance to challenge the various assertions the state threw out with almost no challenge, before they speak out against him. He has had NO CHANCE to defend himself. None.
... We must remember Lori's passive attorneys barely questioned any of the big claims by the prosec. They offered NO witnesses to challenge ANY of the state's claims. While that leads to an easy win for the state, it sure hasn't given Chad any opportunity to push back on what is being said about him.
... Included in that virtually unchallenged set of assertions was the state's claim that Tammy was murdered after all, rather than dying of some malady. I suspect there will be quite a challenge to the reliability of that assertion when Chad goes to trial.
... In fact, I think there might also be a LOT of challenge to the texts and their claimed meaning and import in a trial with an aggressive set of defense attorneys.

Then what could be their view now, that doesn't yet see Chad as a murderer, including their mom?

We do know this -- BEFORE LORI'S TRIAL we saw Chad's kids in an interview, and they thought this was all Lori's doing. Evil Lori the seductress, and her murderous brother Alex who killed to suit her whims. IN THE TRIAL we saw a lot of lusty and wacky ideas, but besides the state's claims about Tammy, people killed were NOT really in Chad's world, ie Charles, Tylee, and JJ.

So to speculate on where they might be -- 'Why would Dad be involved in any of that? Yes, he was stupidly enamored with Lori the Devil Woman and he used wild ideas to try to seduce her, and that makes us mad, but that's not murder. If she murdered her people to chase him, that's on her. And the state's newer opinion on Tammy's death, that seems iffy. One of us was there when it happened. The state's claim has NOT been tested and tried well enough yet. Do we even believe it? Maybe she just died - that happens sometimes. Can't we allow Dad to give his side of the story, with a defense, before we turn on him?'

If that's where they are, I wouldn't hold it against them. They didn't do any of this, and their life has gotten very hard (and perhaps conflicted) through no fault of their own. And again, maybe some of them have turned against him already, and we just don't know it yet.

Chad predicted Tammy's death and was talking about her and the children's falling death percentages. His repeated zombie proclamations (starting with Charles) leave no doubt that this was his idea. If his children read his own texts about the victims that were submitted as evidence, they would not be in denial. Tylee was still alive when he googled wind direction. (IMO)

 

[KonaHonu]

Drank a toast tonight to Rob Wood, Lindsay Blake, Rachel Smith, and 18 anonymous citizens of Ada County Idaho!

 

[indicolite22]

Is there some information somewhere to get up to speed on Melani pulling the stunt or being a co-conspirator?

Any information on Brandon's case? Someone got away with attempted murder?

In BB's case, MBP very likely produced his new Gilbert address to Chad and Lori, because she and BB's friend were the only people who had it. This trial revealed that MBP knew that two of her four children were labeled dark, knew what it meant and was resigned to it (though I believe she had been brainwashed). She was supposed to testify for the prosecution, but was disqualified because she (on purpose?) watched BB's court testimony.

 

[Kemug]

I stayed up till 5am last night, waiting to hear the verdict. It was well worth it!

 

[Kemug]

And my reaction was "Hallelujah!"

 

[Kemug]

I don't think she'll get LWOP. I'm thinking more like 20 years.

Arizona will want to try her. They don't want her to go free if she successfully appeals the Idaho conviction. I think there is only a small chance that happens but Arizona won't take that chance!

I'm thinking that I would be happy for LWP in Idaho, plus LWP in Arizona, to be served consecutively!

 

[Kemug]

I just had a Revelation folks - what Lori's thoughts were as she was found guilty. To wit, "Oh you silly little people, you just don't understand do you, you are so ignorant of my greatness."