Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #52

[887sMtreme]

Thats something I wished MG or DW had been asked. Jmo

They might be. Especially when we get around to actual murder charges.

 

[wiggy]

When they moved to Hawaii in December 2019 they referred to it as a permanent move. Lori even tried to use it to fight extradition. Chad reportedly said he was going to sell the Rexburg house. I don't think they ever wanted to set foot back there.

Yes, but IMO Chad and Lori say a lot of things. I don’t think for one second that he planned to sell that property with the bodies still buried on it. That doesn’t mean that he didn’t ultimately plan to sell it—but who knows? Chad and Lori’s version of the truth changes by the moment to suit their needs. IMO, they were going to wait until things cooled down and then figure out what to do about the property and the kids.

But again, I don’t think Chad and Lori are smart criminals, so who knows really. I mean, they fled to the state of Hawaii—not a foreign country without extradition to the US. That is not the work of a genius.

 

[JolietJake]

When they moved to Hawaii in December 2019 they referred to it as a permanent move. Lori even tried to use it to fight extradition. Chad reportedly said he was going to sell the Rexburg house. I don't think they ever wanted to set foot back there.

If so, I wonder how they'd gather 144,000 souls in Hawaii by July 22, or whatever date they were dreaming up. That would have been a project.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix

Charles Vallow would have turned 64 on this day. His death is actively being investigated by Chandler Police with potential charges close to being submitted against his former wife Lori Vallow.

 

[DeathbyBoobie]

Don't know if this was already posted but today would have been Charles Vallow's 64th birthday today.

 

[JDough]

Yes, but IMO Chad and Lori say a lot of things. I don’t think for one second that he planned to sell that property with the bodies still buried on it. That doesn’t mean that he didn’t ultimately plan to sell it—but who knows? Chad and Lori’s version of the truth changes by the moment to suit their needs. IMO, they were going to wait until things cooled down and then figure out what to do about the property and the kids.

But again, I don’t think Chad and Lori are smart criminals, so who knows really. I mean, they fled to the state of Hawaii—not a foreign country without extradition to the US. That is not the work of a genius.

I'm not so sure they cared a great deal about selling the property without removing Tylee and JJ first? They were members of the 144,000 club. I think they expected to be in that portal-thing before their bodies were found. Moo

 

[Boxer]

I'm not so sure they cared a great deal about selling the property without removing Tylee and JJ first? They were members of the 144,000 club. I think they expected to be in that portal-thing before their bodies were found. Moo

All 72,000 couples.
And where will all those children of those couples be?
Cult or con, MOO it's hard to tell.

 

[GRT]

They might be. Especially when we get around to actual murder charges.

The longer this continues without murder charges, the less I am convinced any are forthcoming.

 

[indicolite22]

The longer this continues without murder charges, the less I am convinced any are forthcoming.

Either they haven't found the smoking gun yet or they did and it takes more time to process the rest of the evidence. Or perhaps this case is bigger than we thought.

 

[mrjitty]

Either they haven't found the smoking gun yet or they did and it takes more time to process the rest of the evidence. Or perhaps this case is bigger than we thought.

Meh - seems very slow to me.

I mean, they found the bodies buried on CD's property - and still nothing?

LV was clearly aware the kids were gone and tried to cover it up - and still nothing?

Oh - my brother murdered my kids one at a time but I thought I'd cover that up?

How much more do you need?

 

[Acorunadepor]

What's is slow in a case like this?

Cases don't work like a check in the box form field. Don't let any work of fiction trouble your sight of an actual case.

Question is who did the actual murder of the children? We might never now. They will be convicted, and will go away for a long time. But getting a good and solid case against them just doesn't happen overnight.

 

[LDS social scientist]

I discovered something over the weekend that I had not heard about before.

Apparently there was (is?) a splinter group who also referred to themselves as "the Church of First Born" in Manti, Utah. I remember some mention of the so-called Morrisite group referring to themselves as such, but I do not remember mention of a this group of around 350 individuals in Manti.

I remembered that Chad and Tammy were married in the Manti Temple. Manti is less than an hour and a half away from their hometown of Springville.

Manti is a little town of about 3200. The temple dates back to 1888 and the Manti group was a well known presence there since around 1990.

There is much documentation from various sources about the Manti Group, AKA The True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days. The Church's prophet died in 2013. It is said that the group is now splintered.

From what I have read, their teachings included multiple probations/reincarnation, including the church's prophet claiming to be the reincarnation of the Holy Spirit and Joseph Smith.

There was a high emphasis on the last days and a failed prophesy of the end of the world in March 2000. I read that the group had a backhoe ready for the burial of all the dead that was going occur then, but did not.

They emphasized translation, exaltation, personal visions of angels, speaking to those beyond the veil (deceased), and polygamy as necessary for exaltation.

I drew a connection between Manti being so close to Springville and wondered if this is how Chad, and maybe even Tammy, first became familiar with teachings that are outside of the mainstream, possibly as far back as the 1990s in pre-internet days.

Whether there was any contact with this group or not, I am seeing that these specific ideas are perhaps a little more prevalent than what I had first realized.

A few points:

Totally agree with you when you say "...these specific ideas are perhaps a little more prevalent..." A lot of the terminology, apart from the zombie stuff, is pretty standard, as it stems from within mainstream Mormonism and is picked up and often expanded upon by Mormon splinter groups.

One of these terms is "Church of the Firstborn." A lot of splinter groups (whether based on polygamy or returning to Joseph Smith/Brigham Young's so-called original teachings, on the one hand, or more future/less polygamy oriented, on the other hand) use this term because it is based in mainstream Mormonism while simultaneously being not fully articulated within everyday mainstream Mormon practice and also seeming to promise a smaller, more select/faithful group within the larger Mormon movement.

There are lots of possible splinter groups from which Chad/others in our case here could have drawn inspiration. Without knowing any specifics about Chad's relationship to this particular case (the Harmston group), it does seem reasonable think Chad could have had familiarity with them from the past. At the same time, I would be surprised if there's anything in the Harmston group that gives us the key to understanding something about Chad's beliefs that we don't already know. While many LDS splinter groups share some terminological and belief similarity (in part because they're splintering from the same source), from what (admittedly modest amount) I know about the Harmston group, I don't think there are any extra close connections between them (compared to other LDS splinter groups) and Chad's group.

(Just my thoughts; I'm not fully enough versed on the Harmston group to fully know. I could be proven wrong in my belief that the connections are a little more superficial than deep.)

 

[GRT]

Either they haven't found the smoking gun yet or they did and it takes more time to process the rest of the evidence. Or perhaps this case is bigger than we thought.

I really, really hope you're right and that both are convicted on murder charges.

 

[indicolite22]

What are the chances that Lori will claim that she was being brainwashed by Chad?

 

[lake daze]

Meh - seems very slow to me.

I mean, they found the bodies buried on CD's property - and still nothing?

LV was clearly aware the kids were gone and tried to cover it up - and still nothing?

Oh - my brother murdered my kids one at a time but I thought I'd cover that up?

How much more do you need?

We just had a case in our town where a man met a woman online, murdered her and buried her on his property. He then lied to her family about the woman's whereabouts, then he left town. He was caught, the trial was only a few days and he was convicted. It seems if bodies are buried on your property, you run away and lie, you are probably going to be a major suspect. This man didn't even pretend to shoot a raccoon on the day she went missing.

I would think Chad and Lori's murder charges would be coming soon.

 

[indicolite22]

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Then Chad must be innocent, because he was expressionless for most of the time. Of course she knows more, she hasn't been asked all the questions yet, but I doubt she's an accomplice.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

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I, myself, am more focused on the killers vs. SQUIRRELs (not racoons) in this case.

Chad & Lori. And what needs to be the primary focus. I know many of us here (most) were upset with the Frazee trial... but in the end, MOO must focus focus focus on Chad and Lori vs. SQUIRREL on MG and others.

 

[indicolite22]

I, myself, am more focused on the killers vs. SQUIRRELs (not racoons) in this case.

Chad & Lori. And what needs to be the primary focus. I know many of us here (most) were upset with the Frazee trial... but in the end, MOO must focus focus focus on Chad and Lori vs. SQUIRREL on MG and others.

I agree. IMO the raccoon will play the squirrel in court.

MG covered for Chad and Lori, presumably because she believed them... until she didn't. But she did not travel to Rexburg to clean up the crime scene.

 

[ajaylee]

Just my two cents this morning...

I'd be surprised if the prosecutors can convict either LVD or CD of murder. I hope they really throw the book at both of them for every 'accessory' charge - perjury, tampering, whatever - because I think that's all they are going to get.

I don't believe LVD's brother or TD died a natural death, but because of different jurisdictions and LVD's constant moving around and inexplicable police laxity (no autopsies for either LVD's brother or TD? Seriously?), it's going to be impossible to prove otherwise unless possibly TD's autopsy revealed something.
I doubt that's the case, because if something had been revealed in the autopsy, it seems certain that CD would have been charged with her death by now.

IMHO, the only potential surprise left is whether or not LVD and CD stick together. If neither caves, I think they are off the hook for the deaths. I think LVD is arguably mentally ill, but that doesn't mean she doesn't either 1) really believe her own stories or 2) is a master manipulator who can stick to a lie.

From the phone call during the search of CD's property, it sounds like LVD is more confident right now than CD is - perhaps because she's already been locked up for a little while or perhaps because she's been lying her way through situations for years now. CD's got two choices: stick with LVD and hope for the best or come clean and throw himself on the mercy of the court. Both alternatives are risky.

I wonder what folks who share their particular set of beliefs are saying now that the 'end times' don't seem to have arrived on schedule.

 

[indicolite22]

Nate Eaton's June 8 BYU-I radio interview was mentioned here before, but this part has not been discussed.
Apparently MG was ready to talk to Nate back in February, but having seen her name mentioned in a news report a day before the interview spooked her and she cancelled. When she did the interview months later she said she did not want the LDS church to look bad or speak ill of Lori's family. She was also uncomfortable sharing on camera what Chad and Lori did in the temple.

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