Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #55

[indicolite22]

Of course. Looks like another case of Lori sweet-talking LE into letting her get away with something.

I think AC implies that Lori was there before the police. If she was allowed to take things afterwards, that doesn't bear on Joe's COD.

 

[indicolite22]

NEW: Austin PD report on assault on Lori Vallow’s ex Joseph Ryan by Alex Cox in ‘07.

• Ryan’s account of what happened when he was stunned by taser after visit w/ daughter Tylee
• Ryan told PD he was afraid LV would kill herself, daughter or him.
• JR’s interaction w/ AC

https://twitter.com/jlumfox10/status/1352334785541152769

Justin Lum obtained a 53-page incident report. Apparently Alex told Joe that that was payback for harming his nephew (Colby?).

 

[MTW2011]

Of course. Looks like another case of Lori sweet-talking LE into letting her get away with something.

indeed, it appears that way. I hate thinking this but if a police department messes up and bungles an investigation, and you want them to either reopen a closed investigation or to continue in new directions they don’t seem willing to (especially if they are in directions that point away from their already publicly disclosed conclusions) I don’t think tons of disdain and pushback from the public helps that cause. As sad as it is, I think in the Morphew case, and in this case, multiple agencies were (understandably so) pushed by the public for more answers. I recall when ProfilingEvil was talking with Andy and one of their streams had one of them talking about law enforcement as if they were purposefully not doing enough or that they were totally inept & incompetent, it sent many people to their social media....rightfully mad at the police department. I remember seeing endless comments flooding their social media pages about how they were terrible and letting people get away with murder and many people inundated their Facebook page with comments filled with anger. I am NOT saying these feelings were not justified, but I thought we saw, as one result, their responses later come back swinging and swinging hard, focused on fighting misinformation and getting their focus away from what everyone wanted - the pursuit of justice and finding a missing women. I think we saw this, as well, to a smaller extent against police departments like Chandler. It was certainly not as strong but I remember many people coming with their internet pitchforks and being keyboard warriors calling them things like “child killers” and letting murderers walk free. I do not think them closing either one of these death investigations was a result of this public outrage and backlash BUT I do think it absolutely makes the police department(s) even more strengthened in their own conclusions & harder to have a case possibly ever be reopened in the future.

again - I hope I’m not taken the wrong way - but I think some of this totally justified feelings cause a further divide between the “police” and “us” and make it harder for the future, because now if anything is reopened and re-examined in the future, they’d have to contend with their previous conclusions being called into question even more now. I think this is a very sad reality of many cases, and just another bump on the long road towards justice. I had little hope they’d ever go back and truly reinvestigate these deaths especially if there is any internal acknowledgement that they overlooked things the first time around, and now with these closed i find it even more unlikely....sadly. Thanks for letting me think aloud.

 

[nyvictoria]

MM filed a motion in which he complains that he doesn't have proper access to his client. He is asking for Lori to be given a cell phone to contact him.

Hahahahaha

 

[MTW2011]

MM filed a motion in which he complains that he doesn't have proper access to his client. He is asking for Lori to be given a cell phone to contact him.

I know at first this does seem like a stretch even for Means but IMHO I believe SOME of this is concerning. I would hate to see ANYTHING be given into the hands of the Defense that allows for an appeal later

Numerous post-conviction advocacy groups have urged prosecutors in multiple states that there needs to be some level of accommodations made. A district in California, earlier on in the pandemic, resorted to releasing defendants who are facing misdemeanor charges or drug-related felony charges as long as the person is not considered a risk to public safety after realizing defense counsel was facing huge conflicts in trying to follow COVID guidelines and precautions set by jail vs. their needs to meet with their clients. I also remember, despite the actual details not being at all accurate to what Means alleged, the jail did admit they had indeed recorded a few of their meetings inadvertently, these were not kept or reviewed and were deleted by the detention center staff as soon as it was discovered but it did happen. Now he’s allegedly being forced to only meet in an area which has constant video and audio monitoring and/or recording and he is able to bring up the same concerns again. It seems to me, if they’re wearing masks, socially distant, and can use the normal meeting room why not let them? Continuing to deny that of him just allows Defense to file for motions, have more hearings, slow down this already painfully slow process on the pursuit of justice. This doesn’t even touch upon his allegations that at some times he was not even able to meet with his client period. Can the existing meeting room be set up in such a way where COVID precautions can still be followed and so that they can meet as close to as “normal” as possible? Or does the State want to continue denying that and allow the defense to continue slow down the clock, eat up more court time, and give them more to continue to try and use to
Bolster their arguments that they cannot get a fair trial?

an interesting piece highlighting this dilemma that has been, obviously, hitting every state in different ways Coronavirus Leaves Defense Attorneys Torn Between Visiting Their Jailed Clients And Spreading The Illness - The Appeal

adding some other reading, too, from https://www.sog.unc.edu/sites/www.sog.unc.edu/files/reports/AOJB 2020-04.pdf
“In one such case, Banks v. Booth, pretrial detainees in the District of Columbia filed a class action suit that, among other things, challenged measures that deprived them of access to telephones and confidential communication with their attorneys while in isolation.13 In response, the court held that it could “not allow constitutional violations to continue simply because a remedy would involve intrusion into the realm of prison administration,”14 and
it granted a restraining order that directed the facility to provide “access to confidential, unmoored legal calls of a duration sufficient to discuss legal matters.”15
Other courts have been more skeptical about the adequacy of telephonic and even video communication. In United States v. Davis, the court found phones and other pandemic “alternatives to in-person meetings,” such as FaceTime and Zoom, to be “no substitute for a face-to-face, in-person, contact meeting between an attorney and his client.”16 The court was considering and ultimately denied a government motion for pretrial detention, finding that the pandemic and its resulting restrictions on jail access continued to “pose myriad challenges for the lawyer, the defendant, and the attorney-client relationship.”17” (end quoted section)

 

[indicolite22]

I know at first this does seem like a stretch even for Means but IMHO I believe SOME of this is concerning. I would hate to see ANYTHING be given into the hands of the Defense that allows for an appeal later

Numerous post-conviction advocacy groups have urged prosecutors in multiple states that there needs to be some level of accommodations made. A district in California, earlier on in the pandemic, resorted to releasing defendants who are facing misdemeanor charges or drug-related felony charges as long as the person is not considered a risk to public safety after realizing defense counsel was facing huge conflicts in trying to follow COVID guidelines and precautions set by jail vs. their needs to meet with their clients. I also remember, despite the actual details not being at all accurate to what Means alleged, the jail did admit they had indeed recorded a few of their meetings inadvertently, these were not kept or reviewed and were deleted by the detention center staff as soon as it was discovered but it did happen. Now he’s allegedly being forced to only meet in an area which has constant video and audio monitoring and/or recording and he is able to bring up the same concerns again. It seems to me, if they’re wearing masks, socially distant, and can use the normal meeting room why not let them? Continuing to deny that of him just allows Defense to file for motions, have more hearings, slow down this already painfully slow process on the pursuit of justice. This doesn’t even touch upon his allegations that at some times he was not even able to meet with his client period. Can the existing meeting room be set up in such a way where COVID precautions can still be followed and so that they can meet as close to as “normal” as possible? Or does the State want to continue denying that and allow the defense to continue slow down the clock, eat up more court time, and give them more to continue to try and use to
Bolster their arguments that they cannot get a fair trial?

an interesting piece highlighting this dilemma that has been, obviously, hitting every state in different ways Coronavirus Leaves Defense Attorneys Torn Between Visiting Their Jailed Clients And Spreading The Illness - The Appeal

adding some other reading, too, from https://www.sog.unc.edu/sites/www.sog.unc.edu/files/reports/AOJB 2020-04.pdf
“In one such case, Banks v. Booth, pretrial detainees in the District of Columbia filed a class action suit that, among other things, challenged measures that deprived them of access to telephones and confidential communication with their attorneys while in isolation.13 In response, the court held that it could “not allow constitutional violations to continue simply because a remedy would involve intrusion into the realm of prison administration,”14 and
it granted a restraining order that directed the facility to provide “access to confidential, unmoored legal calls of a duration sufficient to discuss legal matters.”15
Other courts have been more skeptical about the adequacy of telephonic and even video communication. In United States v. Davis, the court found phones and other pandemic “alternatives to in-person meetings,” such as FaceTime and Zoom, to be “no substitute for a face-to-face, in-person, contact meeting between an attorney and his client.”16 The court was considering and ultimately denied a government motion for pretrial detention, finding that the pandemic and its resulting restrictions on jail access continued to “pose myriad challenges for the lawyer, the defendant, and the attorney-client relationship.”17” (end quoted section)

MM previously tried to use accidental jail recording as an argument for Lori's bond reduction.

I think it also needs to be taken into account that everybody else is working under the same rules. They won't bend the rules for one "special" inmate.

 

[MTW2011]

MM previously tried to use accidental jail recording as an argument for Lori's bond reduction.

I think it also needs to be taken into account that everybody else is working under the same rules. They won't bend the rules for one "special" inmate.

You’re correct but in this case there is actually more precedence on the side of the Defense. Neighboring counties in the same state have released inmates facing more serious charges, because the Court agreed the pandemic restrictions were affecting the attorney client meetings in such a negative way. In one case I even saw the State prosecutor support and file Motions in support of the immediate release Motions filed by the Defense, because of many of the same restrictions Means is talking about.

I’m interested to see what happens, but for possibly the only time so far, existing precedence of cases within their own state no less, support what the Defense is asking for (accommodations due to the multiple resurrections not specifically a cell phone given to an inmate).

 

[Mitch1]

Full report
https://static.fox10phoenix.com/www.fox10phoenix.com/content/uploads/2021/01/07-2171206_Redacted.pdf

 

[Nosurprise]

I am sorry if this has been discussed, can't find it. Can anyone who is local to Rexburg confirm that Colby and family have moved permanently to Rexburg?

 

[Spartygirl]

Per report:

"Am I a suspect?"

In what sweetie? What makes you ask?

JMO

HA !!! Love it !!
I said the very same thing myself when I first read that.
and then add she doesn't know Lori very well, yet in her daughter's account of that day, she met AxC through her friend LVD. LMAO
Oh lord--if we can see through this, why can't investigators ???

 

[Spartygirl]

Does anyone remember who we heard from in the past that stated THEY HAD CALLED ZULEMA AND ASKRD HER TO XHECK ON ALEX the day he passed?

I believe it was LVD herself that said that.

 

[Spartygirl]

well, off the top of my head, it seems the daughter is honest about the extent of Lori and Zulema’s relationship; while Zulema has not been so truthful. Interesting...

Exactly !!!!

 

[Spartygirl]

ZP's daughter states that ZP originally intended to move to Idaho to be with Alex. I wonder how old this plan was. It's possible that Alex and ZP were one of the 144k couples prompted to move to Idaho to wait out the apocalypse. Also, a confirmation from another person here that Alex was "very religious". If he believed in zombies, he could have been manipulated by Lori and Chad to justify murdering the children.

Yet, ZP herself says in her report that she did not want to move to Idaho and convinced AxC to stay at her house instead.
Definitely conflicting stories here.
How can we see through this and LE /investigators do not. UGH

 

[Spartygirl]

I’ve felt all along that Melani was in on all of the plans just as deep as Lori. If she had been given custody of her children, they would have been labeled zombies along with JJ and Tylee. Fortunately, BB intervened and prevented that from happening.

JMO

Thank God for BB.
Their kiddos would be right with JJ and Tylee, IMO
Plus kudos to him for stepping up and identifying JJ and Tylee so Kay and Larry did not have to suffer through that.

 

[Spartygirl]

It was recently revealed that Wood talked to ZP on October 2. ZP's attorney GS said that they were hashing out the terms of her immunity deal. I'd like to see ZP's motivation for speaking out. I doubt that she knew in advance that the children would be killed, but I wonder how she found out they were no longer alive.

she probably found out during her Thanksgiving, runaway, elopement wedding. (if not before)
I believe LVD purposely set them up...she met AxC through LVD, enough said, IMO

 

[MTW2011]

I’ve felt all along that Melani was in on all of the plans just as deep as Lori. If she had been given custody of her children, they would have been labeled zombies along with JJ and Tylee. Fortunately, BB intervened and prevented that from happening.

JMO

by any chance did you follow the recent custody hearings? Because it seemed like there was going to be all sorts of serious allegations coming out & many witnesses testified and at the very last minute things were agreed upon by the parties. And, IIRC it was Brandon who had the more concerning stuff in the report by the (I believe they were court ordered/appointed) doctor/therapist. I’m going off memory since the hearing was not live-streamed via video but public could listen in to some portions via phone call

 

[Spartygirl]

JMO. Which suicide method would cause bilateral pulmonary embolism though? It looks like he was unwell for days before he died. If he meant to kill himself, he could have chosen a quicker way out. Why would he care to disguise it as a natural death?

BBM-- well, we only have ZP story that he was unwell and as we can clearly see in these latest reports..she does not speak the truth.

 

[Satchie]

indeed, it appears that way. I hate thinking this but if a police department messes up and bungles an investigation, and you want them to either reopen a closed investigation or to continue in new directions they don’t seem willing to (especially if they are in directions that point away from their already publicly disclosed conclusions) I don’t think tons of disdain and pushback from the public helps that cause. As sad as it is, I think in the Morphew case, and in this case, multiple agencies were (understandably so) pushed by the public for more answers. I recall when ProfilingEvil was talking with Andy and one of their streams had one of them talking about law enforcement as if they were purposefully not doing enough or that they were totally inept & incompetent, it sent many people to their social media....rightfully mad at the police department. I remember seeing endless comments flooding their social media pages about how they were terrible and letting people get away with murder and many people inundated their Facebook page with comments filled with anger. I am NOT saying these feelings were not justified, but I thought we saw, as one result, their responses later come back swinging and swinging hard, focused on fighting misinformation and getting their focus away from what everyone wanted - the pursuit of justice and finding a missing women. I think we saw this, as well, to a smaller extent against police departments like Chandler. It was certainly not as strong but I remember many people coming with their internet pitchforks and being keyboard warriors calling them things like “child killers” and letting murderers walk free. I do not think them closing either one of these death investigations was a result of this public outrage and backlash BUT I do think it absolutely makes the police department(s) even more strengthened in their own conclusions & harder to have a case possibly ever be reopened in the future.

again - I hope I’m not taken the wrong way - but I think some of this totally justified feelings cause a further divide between the “police” and “us” and make it harder for the future, because now if anything is reopened and re-examined in the future, they’d have to contend with their previous conclusions being called into question even more now. I think this is a very sad reality of many cases, and just another bump on the long road towards justice. I had little hope they’d ever go back and truly reinvestigate these deaths especially if there is any internal acknowledgement that they overlooked things the first time around, and now with these closed i find it even more unlikely....sadly. Thanks for letting me think aloud.

I think police know their job and they have access to the actual evidence vs internet 'experts' who have only their vivid imaginations and, often, fervent conspiracy theories.

 

[Spartygirl]

Yes, this was intriguing to me. I am one who still believes he committed suicide and did not die of natural causes. IMO, he received instructions from Chad Daybell.

I am with you on that.
Either the "drugs" from Mexico were added with other drugs (think TD death) or it was suicide.
It was not natural causes, no matter what report shows.
JMO

 

[Spartygirl]

I remember that, too. Zulema had stated that Lori called her from Hawaii and said she should go check on Alex.

and Yet, another red flag. UGH