Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Sept & Oct 2019 *Arrests* #58

[Hoosgirl]

I have been on this site since the Anthony case and read here a lot, but I don't comment much. I find that my beliefs typically do not fall within the majority.

I have stated how I feel about LVD being declared incompetent, at least for now. I follow other cases here too. Here is the thing, I am baffled by our willingness to not question LE, to say "they are professionals, they know what they are doing" and yet turn around and question professionals in this case. Can someone please explain to me why we do not believe that LVD might actually have an issue? Her actions thus far have certainly not been those of a sane person. MOO

I think folks are concerned, given Lori's documented manipulative behavior in the past and her ability to turn on and off the "crazy" depending on the audience, that she could possibly have feigned or malingered her legal competency evaluation. I have been reading some google results on other such cases out of curiosity and it has been known to happen.

 

[squareandrabbet]

I think many of us are looking at Lori's behavior from our mentally-healthy point of view. We wonder if she is a con or motivated by greed and lust - concepts we can understand from a mentaly healthy point of view.

Some of us have experience with mental illness, either personally or with family members, and are looking at Lori from that point of view. She might not be displaying what people recognize as authentic mental illness.

But I think what we need to do is look at her behavior from a cult point of view. That's a whole 'nother view point, imo (I'm no expert!). She is calm in face of horrendous things - Charles was killed and she was joking, her children were missing and she insisted they were safe in a calm and non-defensive tone. She is calm because it's all part of her spiritual world, and what this earthly, unbelieving world condemns doesn't matter.

She doesn't see the world as either a mentally healthy person or as a mentally-ill person, but as a cult member with a specific world view.

The question is, is her world view so delusional she is legally incompetent?

jmo

Really good nutshell of the issues, IMO, thanks.

Not just that JJ is safe... Lori told MG that JJ is "safe and happy" (BBM). Clearly Lori cannot be trusted...

 

[SuziQ]

Evidence is also stacked against Chad. For start, who made up all the light/dark ratings, previous marriages and zombie names?

Exactly! And IMO, he signed the death warrants of many people. Some of who are very very lucky to be alive. Particularly, Brandon and his children.

 

[StrangerThanFiction]

Lori may escape facing her charges for the time being but they’ll get her competent. It’s JMO but I have a feeling she’s going to object to taking psych meds.

That’s OK. Get her into a psych unit and let’s see how long it takes her to sing. JMO

 

[MsJosie]

IF LV followed the cult of CD….one of her treatments can be “deprogramming” from the cults beliefs plus whatever other treatment is needed.


From 2012 Idaho, about forced treatment, link below. I am looking to see if there is a more current ruling. If anyone finds one please post. (There are different ruling for inmates vs no inmates in other articles/rulings).

http://forms.idoc.idaho.gov/WebLink/0/edoc/283162/Involuntary Medication and Treatment.pdf

 

[sunflowerchick]

I think folks are concerned, given Lori's documented manipulative behavior in the past and her ability to turn on and off the "crazy" depending on the audience, that she could possibly have feigned or malingered her legal competency evaluation. I have been reading some google results on other such cases out of curiosity and it has been known to happen.

Thanks for this. I understand the concern. Personally though, if we think she can "turn on and off" the crazy, doesn't that actually mean she is incompetent? I mean if we think she "faked" her results with CV, doesn't that mean she really is crazy? Would they deem her incompetent solely based on her ability to impact results on a psych test? Does that make sense?

 

[Webbie16]

From 2012 Idaho, about forced treatment, link below. I am looking to see if there is a more current ruling. If anyone finds one please post. (There are different ruling for inmates vs no inmates in other articles/rulings).

http://forms.idoc.idaho.gov/WebLink/0/edoc/283162/Involuntary Medication and Treatment.pdf

This is a great link, thank you!

 

[Inthedetails]

That’s OK. Get her into a psych unit and let’s see how long it takes her to sing. JMO

She thinks she is a goddess and superior being. I don't think any of this matters to her. Charge her, put her in a cell, put the death penalty on the table, take away her hair color (okay, that might bother her)....

But in all seriousness, I think she is totally prepared for spiritual warfare, and she's prepared to calmly and even happily endure all of this, including the death penalty.

IMO, the courts need to decide if that response to the charges means she doesn't understand them or doesn't care. And if she doesn't care, is that delusional?

jmo

 

[SuziQ]

Thank you! Every time I post about her ability to manipulate men, I'm accused of not respecting men.

Or not respecting the psychiatric profession. Here is the deal, both men and women can be manipulated by the opposite sex. And there are incompetent people in all professions.

I just can't ignore Lori's prolific manipulation of the men that have had contact with her. Except Chad, I think he was thrilled to find someone who was equally sick and evil as he is.

 

[StrangerThanFiction]

We need to consider their beliefs. That is what brought them together in the first place. They think they are right and righteous in their actions, being a goddess and prophet. If they truly, truly believe that, are they competent to form a legal defense?

jmo

I’ve wondered exactly this! What on earth could he possibly be telling JP about all of this? Or is it of no discussion at all, and they are just finding ways to dodge and weave out of the charges? The second is my guess. JMO

 

[squareandrabbet]

So IIRC, the argument between Lori and Charles prior to Alex shooting Charles was instigated by Lori taking Charles's phone. I vaguely remember something about Charles having some type of incriminating (maybe a better descriptor would be unflattering/off-the-rails) recording of Lori on his phone that she discovered and set her off.

Now we have Zac Cox telling Justin Lum in an interview that Charles and Adam Cox had discussed recording Lori in order to provide evidence to local church leadership that she was encouraging beliefs outside the faith while holding a temple recommend/frequently attending the temple. Zac says the men hoped she would be excommunicated and it might shake her out of her fringe beliefs. After Alex killed Charles, Zac says Lori had access to Charles's phone for at least several days and he believes she was deleting things from it.

Do I have that right? Seems like details are starting to come in that connect to one another.

Sounds about right to me... Lori does not like being embarrassed, and she certainly does not like being told what to do.

This is also the same time frame that she is telling Charles that she can kill him herself in the blink of an eye (with, I guess, the power of her mind), and nobody will miss him, because she is a goddess.

 

[StrangerThanFiction]

We need to consider their beliefs. That is what brought them together in the first place. They think they are right and righteous in their actions, being a goddess and prophet. If they truly, truly believe that, are they competent to form a legal defense?

jmo

I’ve wondered exactly this! What on earth could he possibly be telling JP about all of this? Or is it of no discussion at all, and they are just finding ways to dodge and weave out of the charges? The second is my guess. JMO

I don’t know. From the States reaction yesterday he doesn’t seem think she is incapable of assisting. No competency issue has been decided yet. The defense has one report.

I mentioned the legal definition of competency to point out the very narrow parameters of the definition

And don’t forget that the bar is set very low in order to be deemed “competent” to stand trial. JMO

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Also more information for the WS timeline @ about 50 seconds in! In this interview with Lum, Zax says that he lived with Lori and Charles

From jan 2018 to may 2018

then went home for the summer

and came back to Arizona " Septemberish 2018"

and lived with Lori until Jan 2019 "until things really picked up and snapped off with Charles"

@Tortoise

Yes, these were such critical details, actually. Did Zack, Adam, Brandon call the Gilbert police when Charles death was being investigated ? Has Zac been interviewed by LE-- he didn't indicate he was prohibited to talk about anything??

I really really want to hear more from Gilbert and Chandler LE.

 

[StrangerThanFiction]

Isn’t this the possible point?

court goes ahead with Chad’s trial and holds Lori’s over; Means gets a preview of how the tactics used by Chad go over with the judge and jury?
.

Sooo, essentially that would equate to MM be incompetent to take her to trial. Yeah, that tracks! MOO

 

[StrangerThanFiction]

yes, thanks, that works

what I don’t understand is what Means hopes to accomplish by this, when everything in the vein of what he’s been asking for, Lori has presented perfectly normally in it/them, and has been judged competent at the end of them.

Ergo, I am now even more convinced that this is more pathetic attempts on Means’ part to run out the clock.

Two key words: Pathetic. And Means. MOO

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I'm curious how Lori got into the podcasts and books.

jmo

I was curious about this as well....way back when! I had thought they would face excommunication with what they were saying in the podcasts. There are clear examples of Ex-Mormon podcasters who simply have less restrictive and conservative beliefs with the Main Mormon church and they HAVE been excommunicated....

Podcasting’s Most Crowded Genres Are Religion, Society & Culture..

But when I researched a bit, I found out that THE major genre for podcasting---are religions! The Mormon Church has hundreds, and so do so many religious groups. And when you listen to the Lori/Melanie/Mow podcasts .... they are really slanted in a positive LDS slant anyway.

proselytizing religion has always been around.... so podcasts were such a good fit, actually.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

YES! This is pure gold and well worth the listen. Tons of insight to help understand the nuances and family dynamics of the Cox's. Zac is a very well put together young man despite being influenced by some seriously dysfunctional members of his family. REALLY REALLY good stuff. Thanks for prompting me to listen! Cheers...

Edit: I posted before finishing the video and the last part is absolutely heart breaking. When he's addressing his interaction with Tylee he can barely hold it together. I've got tears running down my cheeks too, I'm right there with him. I would not be able to watch that part again.

Yes, yes... When Zac KNEW that Tylee wanted to reach him, and Janis just whisked Tylee away from him..........
This has been the most crushing event to Zac... and he will never get over it.

This is why I said earlier, I just get angrier and angrier at that family. That Cox family from the start......... are just so, so (add many cuss words here)

I disagree with many here.... I don't think she is wallowing in her past Queendom. I think she is heavily heavily engaged in how to manage this theatrical insanity, with much help from her parents. Prosecution has to step up their game on this.

 

[StrangerThanFiction]

Well, I actually agree, LVD is definitely "Incompetent". As a mother!

And as a basic human.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I hope that the psychologists in Arizona are consulted about their findings during this 'restorative treatment' and evaluation.

I HOPE that they can get Melani BP's father to be interviewed.

All those legal documents back and forth with the Father Cox, back when Stacey was so ill, and subsequently died, when the whole family was in Hawaii. Father Cox, is crazy as a fox, and has a way of driving the legal process crazy.

I am 100% convinced that he is behind the scenes of new insanity endeavor.

moo, and statement imho.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

That is what really bothers me. If Charles' claim that she had lost her mental function was taken seriously, people would not be dead.

I don't think there are many who disagree. The uproar against the Gilbert police has been strong since the beginning. Incompetence, cover-up, anger, getting outside commission to investigate Gilbert LE. All have been discussed a lot.

HOwever, after listening to Zac's interview with Justin Lum, many other people could be dead now.