Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Sept & Oct 2019 *Arrests* #58

[CSIDreamer]

Thank u for the constant updates! You are awesome. But now that we know Lori is unfit to stand trial right now, it really makes me wonder why Means is there everyday. I know people on here have said he has other clients. But even if he does, he wouldn’t be there almost everyday. The only thing I can think of is that Lori signed a HIPAA waiver saying he could be there for her therapy. And if that’s not the case, now that the court is paying Means from the people’s tax dollar $$$, they are going to cut him off real fast. Why would they allow him to see her everyday, all day, if she can’t even help him and her case? It would be a waste of time and $$$. MOO

I wonder if he's her guardian right now. Is that even a possibility?

 

[887sMtreme]

I wonder if he's her guardian right now. Is that even a possibility?

I would like to know this, too. It seems his bear-constant presence at the facility holding LV could be for more than carrying out lawyerly duties.

 

[OGDiva]

Can anyone tell me if Chad's parents are still alive? I'm presuming they're not, as we haven't heard anything about them.

Yes, they are and I know them personally. They are such wonderful people and I am sure absolutely devastated by this.

 

[Jolynna]

One of the expert guests on the podcast remarked that smothering with a pillow was a possibility in Tammy's case if toxicology results didn't show anything.

I have been wondering about the pillow scenario since I read that Alex Cox was close to the Daybell home the night Tammy died.

Chad Daybell told Melanie Gibbs that his kids were with them when Tammy died. But the obituary CD wrote contradicts that. It states that Tammy died peacefully in her sleep with her "eyes closed" and a smile on her face while CD was asleep.

How thoroughly did the coroner examine Tammy?

I am very interested in the determinations from the forensic examination Tammy received in Utah after she was exhumed.

 

[MsJosie]

If it is referring to specific psychological “tests”, then SOME specific tests require specific intervals of time to pass before anyone can re-administer or the results will not be valid. I am talking about “test validity”, in other words, are you measuring what you think you are measuring. Especially diagnostic (as opposed to’screening’ exams have very specific instructions about how they are administered. Some psychological and IQ tests can have “practice effects” so they can only be administered ex. every 2 years. Others are like taking your temperature, you can do it over and over and over again in a single day. The diagnostic standardized psychological exams that can only be repeated every few years and have to administered in a very specific way (standardized) can only be performed by certain professionals certified to administer and interpret that exam (and certification has credential prerequisites as well). The exams are copyrighted for the most part and can only be ordered from the publisher by these certified and credentialed professionals. Maintaining test validity (measuring what you think you are measuring) is a big deal that is taken very seriously.

I hope this makes sense, I don’t want to get too deep in the weeds on this needlessly. But, this is why “re-testing “ is not possible. Re- interviewing is possible.

Thank you! That is very interesting to know. Also I thought if medication has been stated, then interview or retesting would change that outcome.
I remember about ordering so many tests by professionals that was brought up in another murder trial some time ago. I did forget that.

Will MM sit on on all the re-interviews in the same room, same table, and beable to object to any questions? Can LV look at MM for direction if she can answer the question?

OR Can MM sit and observe through a two mirror window and ask questions that may have to be preapproved by MM?

edited to fix a typing goof up…sorry.

 

[MsJosie]

I have been wondering about the pillow scenario since I read that Alex Cox was close to the Daybell home the night Tammy died.

Chad Daybell told Melanie Gibbs that his kids were with them when Tammy died. But the obituary CD wrote contradicts that. It states that Tammy died peacefully in her sleep with her "eyes closed" and a smile on her face while CD was asleep.

How thoroughly did the coroner examine Tammy?

I am very interested in the determinations from the forensic examination Tammy received in Utah after she was exhumed.

If this was a coroner that examined Tammy, he/she does not have to a licensed doctor…..a Medical Examiner does. That could be one of the big issues why so many things were missed.

There are many articles out on the net about this. Here is one of many

How Are Coroners and Medical Examiners Different?

The major differences between coroners and medical examiners are embedded in the manner of their selection by electoral process versus appointment and their professional status. Coroners are elected lay people who often do not have professional training, whereas medical examiners are appointed and have board-certification in a medical specialty.


Not sure….but this popped up on here…I did not add it, it said it’s from my search results???….strange things happening since I updated my device. However, the same info is given in the article,

Search Results
Featured snippet from the web
A coroner isn't required to be a doctor and can be either appointed or elected as a county official, according to the Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). A coronerinvestigates and/or determines a cause of death and also certifies a death but doesn't perform the actual autopsy.May

 

[fred&edna]

I'm glad someone else gets it. JMO

It has nothing to do with past actions or her hair lol.

I had no problem "getting it", it's accepting it that causes me such frustration.

 

[squareandrabbet]

Who would have thunk that the VICTIMS phone was so key. Too late now to get information from deleted info of course.

IIRC Kay was sounding the alarm early about this fact and issue. She said, around the same time she was discussing her discovery of the purchases Lori made on Charles' Amazon account, that Charles never password protected his phone; and by now we know that Kay was tight with Brandon at minimum, so I bet she did know some of what was going on through him. I'm sure she was hinting at the possibility of Lori deleting data - we just didn't know before Zac, that this was a sensitive area.

So yeah, it's on Chandler's IMO inexcusably lax police force if nobody can now get this information.

We can, however, hope that the FBI asked for it in enough time to have the information retrieved from the cloud.

 

[fuzzybutter]

Idaho courts either appoint a licensed psychologist/psychiatrist or they appoint the department of health and welfare to find a psychologist/psychiatrist to do the eval. I cannot find anything about retesting her however it does state that if either the prosecutor or defense have an issue with outcome of the evaluation, they can submit for a hearing in court and will then be allowed to show evidence and cross-examine the psychiatrist/psychologist. Since neither party did this, she will be submitted for treatment at a mental health facility for 90 days.

The prosecutor did object to the findings in the report. The judge said he will schedule a hearing in the next 30 days.

 

[fuzzybutter]

I may have missed this but I am wondering if anyone knows who submitted the application for mental incompetence?

The defense

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Nate Eaton - Reporter

Favorites · 57 mins ·
I just received word from my attorney that John Prior has withdrawn my subpoena in the Daybell case.

 

[fuzzybutter]

Thank you! That is very interesting to know. Also I thought if medication has been stated, then interview or retesting would change that outcome.
I remember about ordering so many tests by professionals that was brought up in another murder trial some time ago. I did forget that.

Will MM sit on on all the re-interviews in the same room, same table, and beable to object to any questions? Can LV look at MM for direction if she can answer the question?

OR Can MM sit and observe through a two mirror window and ask questions that may have to be preapproved by MM?

edited to fix a typing goof up…sorry.

I don’t know anything about Idaho law specifically, but I can’t imagine that attorneys, or anyone else for that matter, can be present for competency interviews, even if the subject wants them there.

I have seen several mentions of LVD being able to sign away her HIPAA protections. I don’t this is possible either. She is not in control of the competency process. Her attorney has access to the final report, but he is not a participant in the evaluation process.

A comment on the relationship between LVD and MM. I don’t think that they are a united front plotting and planning together. I think she is an extremely difficult client and he is a relatively young, ambitious lawyer, who views this case as path to fame and eventual fortune. He is gambling that the time he spends on this case now, will payoff in the future. Legal aid lawyers do not make the same money that they would in private practice. Also the best he can do for her is LWOP. There are a few similarities with the Arias case—neither of her attorneys liked her. But they gave her a more than adequate defense and kept her off of death row. That was their job. The case did destroy Nurmi’s law career, so MM needs be careful.

 

[squareandrabbet]

Update: Nate says on FB that JP withdrew his personal subpoena.

 

[Tortoise]

I think this is Lori's response to being cast off by Chad, both financially and probably from the team they once were, because he's going to do everything to save his own hide now. I think that's why she was insisting on being called Daybell, to send a last desperate message to him, like remember who we are, let's stick together. IMO she has virtually no one left now from the pool she's used to drawing from, even her sister SS was recorded saying to RW that Lori was lying. It's been a long drop from up high, when she strutted through the court with her nose six feet in the air, and there was no plan B, she's used to having people believe her lies. Incompetence didn't hit, reality did, and responsibility is not in her repertoire. Incompetence to Lori is having no plan to win.

MOO

 

[Jolynna]

Nate Eaton told Nancy Grace that the evidence against Chad and Lori is overwhelming. So the defense attorneys' goals will be negotiating for the least amount of punishment for their clients (most especially saving their lives). I think Mark Means did more for LVD in her first appearance than the more experienced Prior did for CD.

I cannot imagine that CD's smirks and laughs while being accused of murdering his former wife and LVD's two children won over potential jury member's hearts. IF Lori smiled or smirked her face mask covered it up. Darker hair may not play up LVD looks the way her blonde tresses did, but her more subdued and slightly (very slightly) haggard look was appropriate for the occasion. Looking as if prison and reality were having an impact is much more sympathetic than if she looked like she was made up for a prom. Murdering her own children is so unspeakably heinous that the ONLY way to soften LVD's role in it is if some of the public (especially potential jury members) believe it is possible that LVD was duped or mentally impaired when it happened. Getting her declared mentally incompetent now, implying that the reality of what she has done just hit her is a step in that direction.

The image of motherhood is so sacred no one wants to believe a sane mom would harm her children. Susan Smith, Diana Downs and Casey Anthony (I will go to my grave believing Ms. Anthony "did it") are evidence that they can and do harm their kids. So, I hate that Means was able to succeed in this first step. But, I think he did his job and furthered LVD's position while Prior and CD worsened their's.

By furthering LVD's position I mean that she is further from the death penalty and that people who don't want to believe the worst about her have been given a straw to grasp.

moo

 

[Inthedetails]

Nate Eaton told Nancy Grace that the evidence against Chad and Lori is overwhelming. So the defense attorneys' goals will be negotiating for the least amount of punishment for their clients (most especially saving their lives). I think Mark Means did more for LVD in her first appearance than the more experienced Prior did for CD.

I cannot imagine that CD's smirks and laughs while being accused of murdering his former wife and LVD's two children won over potential jury member's hearts. IF Lori smiled or smirked her face mask covered it up. Darker hair may not play up LVD looks the way her blonde tresses did, but her more subdued and slightly (very slightly) haggard look was appropriate for the occasion. Looking as if prison and reality were having an impact is much more sympathetic than if she looked like she was made up for a prom. Murdering her own children is so unspeakably heinous that the ONLY way to soften LVD's role in it is if some of the public (especially potential jury members) believe it is possible that LVD was duped or mentally impaired when it happened. Getting her declared mentally incompetent now, implying that the reality of what she has done just hit her is a step in that direction.

The image of motherhood is so sacred no one wants to believe a sane mom would harm her children. Susan Smith, Diana Downs and Casey Anthony (I will go to my grave believing Ms. Anthony "did it") are evidence that they can and do harm their kids. So, I hate that Means was able to succeed in this first step. But, I think he did his job and furthered LVD's position while Prior and CD worsened their's.

Interesting insights, especially about the efforts to soften Lori in the eyes of others.

jmo

 

[Teche]

IIRC Kay was sounding the alarm early about this fact and issue. She said, around the same time she was discussing her discovery of the purchases Lori made on Charles' Amazon account, that Charles never password protected his phone; and by now we know that Kay was tight with Brandon at minimum, so I bet she did know some of what was going on through him. I'm sure she was hinting at the possibility of Lori deleting data - we just didn't know before Zac, that this was a sensitive area.

So yeah, it's on Chandler's IMO inexcusably lax police force if nobody can now get this information.

We can, however, hope that the FBI asked for it in enough time to have the information retrieved from the cloud.

I am from Louisiana and we have many French/Cajun names that I always recognize. Charles has ties to Louisiana and BB must have ties to Louisiana. BB’s last name is super common in South Louisiana. I wonder if there’s a tie. BB. (I think) worked for the same company as CV. Lori’s niece, Melani married BB.

 

[Dorothy Jane]

The podcast itself was irritating, with Nancy berating Nate first for addressing Chad and Lori by their first names and then for saying that they believed in Chad's teachings. She was adamant multiple times that they did not believe any of it.

I listened to this and was so irritated by Nancy Grace's behavior. <modnsip> Nate was so interesting! Someone should just have Nate on a podcast and let him talk uninterrupted!

 

[kshultz06082]

Does anyone know where to find their arrest affidavits?

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Does anyone know where to find their arrest affidavits?

The new Grand jury Indictment I have for Chad and Lori both at... https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR22211623/Indictment.pdf

Their affidavits from last year for the original charges may be found in the media thread, I don't have it bookmarked any longer (indictments replace affidavits for the new charges, so you won't find such for the new charges)

ETA: From last year.... Here is Lori's criminal complaint https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR22-20-838/Amended Criminal Complaint.pdf and also https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR22-20-838/Affidavit of Probable Cause.pdf

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR22-20-755/Amended Criminal Complaint.pdf is Chad

Is this all you were looking for? If you need more, do a "search" with the key word affidavit in the first media thread and there are more documents at the judicial site you may find.