Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Sept & Oct 2019 *Arrests* #60

[pizzaman12]

I actually think the redaction could be CD.

The paragraph stating 'there is no obvious communication found between LV and CD to show that he was directly involved with the planning of CV's murder' doesn't rule out communications that are implicit from witness testimony, and this seems to be covered on the last page where they state LV got her advice and directions from CD, and LV stating 'I have been told'. It also fits in the black box with the word and, according to my ruler.

Wouldn't a charge be likely at this point though? Why charge her and not him if they have the evidence to support

 

[pizzaman12]

I could be way off base but if its 2 people I would assume its either Alex or someone else already redacted. We pretty much have figured out the redacted names. JMO

Alex was my bet but didn't know how that worked

 

[Nosurprise]

Local update: MM was at the women’s detention center today

It says in the information today that Lori was served Tuesday for the AZ CASE. Does that mean Means got the paperwork? Any talk of why the hearing was vacated it was all about Means wasn't it? I am so confused.

 

[Nosurprise]

You’re comment “perhaps [Alex] didn’t have it in him to shoot someone” got me thinking.

Someone fired at Charles twice and missed. Someone fired at B and missed. And someone fired at Tammy and missed, Or maybe ran away without even firing. Alex was the presumed shooter all 3 times.

The odds that two shots would be fired at a grown man in the same room without even grazing them are a bit low. Even lower that someone would completely miss twice then land their next shot squarely in the victims chest. I don’t know what it means, but something seems off.


There’s no indication that Alex was a violent hothead prone to frequent fistfights. And when he decided to attack Joe Ryan he chose a taser. There are plenty of angry people who’ve shot bullets at their enemies in broad daylight. But how often are enemies tased? Maybe a taser was all Alex could bring himself to use.

When MG asked AC about JJ and Tylee’s whereabouts he said “you don’t want to know”. He didn’t change the subject. He didn’t lie that they were someplace safe. He didn’t express relief that their spirits were free now that the Zombie imposters were gone—like he might if he were completely on board. IMO “you don’t want to know” suggests a degree of regret or sadness. Emotions Lori nor Chad have ever shown.

When it comes down to it, no one in Alex’s life has come to harm unless they know Lori too. Then they die.

What if you’re right that Alex didn’t have it in him to shoot someone. I think it’s possible that Lori shot at CV, missed twice then Alex took over. But maybe it’s the other way around and she took the gun from Alex, shot CV and left Alex to deal with it while she heads out to buy burgers , flip-flops and an alibi.

I’ve assumed all along Alex was a monster or **** that readily did Lori’s dirty work. But maybe Alex was a reluctant participant, helping Lori out of a misguided, Lenny-like sense of duty. Or fear. And maybe he had enough and was killed not because L & C needed a scapegoat but to avoid him spilling the beans.

I agree with you..but who killed Alex? Hmmm, Also, there didn't seem to be any gun powder residue tests done..

 

[lonetraveler]

On the bodycam footage, the police discuss that there are four bullet casings at the scene but CV was shot twice. So maybe the shooter missed twice? MOO

It appears that Alex was a very poor shooter. Tammy was shot at and missed, Brandon was shot at and missed and it seems that four shots were fired at point blank range and two shots missed. JMO

 

[Chelly]

For those that prefer to save one PDF in their files/computer vs. many jpegs....

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/20982422/state-v-redacted_redacted-lori-vallow.pdf

Ohhh...Thank goodness!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The .pdf on FB proved to be incomplete. Thanks @dixiegirl1035

 

[lonetraveler]

On the bodycam footage, the police discuss that there are four bullet casings at the scene but CV was shot twice. So maybe the shooter missed twice? MOO

It appears that Alex was a very poor shooter. Tammy was shot at and missed, Brandon was shot at and missed and it seems that four shots were fired at point blank range and two shots missed. JMO

 

[Shadowtrix]

Reading through the redacted affidavit, I'm still struggling to discern whether LVD and CD truly believed in all of this.

Now that LVD's been declared incompetent to stand trial and the question of whether or not she could be malingering has come up several times, reading through some of those text messages suggest she wholeheartedly believed she was a "chosen one" given this "mission."

But where I'm confused is, if naysayers and doubters were written off as "dark" by these two, in the small glimpses we've seen of her interactions with police, why was there never any mention of all of this on her end to police? At the PD with Tylee or after CD was shot? One would assume if she was this deep into her beliefs, at some point, she'd have blabbed even to police about Charles being a zombie, or possessed, but no. Everything she seemed to be reporting seemed to be your average collateral damage in a nasty divorce/custody battle (i.e. on the body cam video of her at the PD with MG and Tylee: the suspected affair, Charles "stealing her purse). Granted, we've only seen a small sliver of her interactions with others on video.

I'm not ruling out the possibility that she is seriously mentally ill but it makes you wonder if it really all just was a hit list that grew and grew under the guise of some religious calling but was all for the money.

 

[Chelly]

Happy to hear that! I really hope there are charges forthcoming for cousin Melani and company.

Appears cousin M is in it up to her neck.

 

[887sMtreme]

Wouldn't bullets be found elsewhere in the room if they missed?

There was one in the floor bear CV’s body, wasn’t there?

 

[TheProblemWeAllLiveWith]

Reading through the redacted affidavit, I'm still struggling to discern whether LVD and CD truly believed in all of this.

Now that LVD's been declared incompetent to stand trial and the question of whether or not she could be malingering has come up several times, reading through some of those text messages suggest she wholeheartedly believed she was a "chosen one" given this "mission."

But where I'm confused is, if naysayers and doubters were written off as "dark" by these two, in the small glimpses we've seen of her interactions with police, why was there never any mention of all of this on her end to police? At the PD with Tylee or after CD was shot? One would assume if she was this deep into her beliefs, at some point, she'd have blabbed even to police about Charles being a zombie, or possessed, but no. Everything she seemed to be reporting seemed to be your average collateral damage in a nasty divorce/custody battle (i.e. on the body cam video of her at the PD with MG and Tylee: the suspected affair, Charles "stealing her purse). Granted, we've only seen a small sliver of her interactions with others on video.

I'm not ruling out the possibility that she is seriously mentally ill but it makes you wonder if it really all just was a hit list that grew and grew under the guise of some religious calling but was all for the money.

Ultimately their motives were the opposite of a belief in the supernatural. They were motivated by lust, greed, spite, pride, etc.
CV’s murder was hastened because, according to the document, he was planning an intervention on LV, and threatened to expose their affair to TD. So it seems LV/CD justified every type of sin if it was in the service of their cause/delusion. She’d previously been court-ordered for a psych evaluation in the custody case with Tylee’s father, which apparently she passed, so she already knew not to mention her goddess status to cops because they could endanger the group’s mission.
I’m not an expert, but from what I’ve learned, most cult leaders, and their core disciples, ultimately do not believe what they preach. The message changes according to their needs. They are opportunists. They probably threatened and blackmailed their orbiters to obey.
LV may be able to convince people that she genuinely believes this stuff, then turn around and convince others that she knows it’s not real. I’d love for an independent forensic psychiatrist to evaluate her over time. That’s why MM is desperate to insert himself into her treatment, so he can control the narrative.

 

[Minty Fresh]

At the bottom this article is the pdf of the probable cause affidavit.

Evidence used to charge Lori Vallow in husband's murder released | 12news.com

Thank you SO MUCH. Easier to read, too!

MOO and all that rot....

 

[Laughing]

It appears that Alex was a very poor shooter. Tammy was shot at and missed, Brandon was shot at and missed and it seems that four shots were fired at point blank range and two shots missed. JMO

Agree, and I think this shows a grasp of reality & also indicates remorse, neither shared by his sister IMHO.

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[BUF]

What “stuff” was she talking about? Sounds nefarious, maybe even some kind of drug or poison maybe? You can guess who she is texting to…

Pg 9 of the Probable Cause Report says “I need to come get this stuff at your house tomorrow and secure it”. Read the rest for context.


The whole Probable Cause in here:
Evidence used to charge Lori Vallow in husband's murder released | 12news.com

 

[Dowagee]

but he supposedly missed T and B also? So perhaps AC wasn't the shooter and Lori took over?

I think if they shot twice and missed, he would’ve been shot in the back because he would have been heading for the door. Maybe both LVD and AC had guns, each shooting twice, therefore the four bullets. Moo

 

[887sMtreme]

It’s amazing how Alex was a terrible shooter. I believe that he was a concealed carrier.

Didn’t he say he went to his room to get his weapon?

 

[887sMtreme]

SNIPPED FOR BREVITY

You’re comment “perhaps [Alex] didn’t have it in him to shoot someone” got me thinking.

I’ve assumed all along Alex was a monster or **** that readily did Lori’s dirty work. But maybe Alex was a reluctant participant, helping Lori out of a misguided, Lenny-like sense of duty. Or fear. And maybe he had enough and was killed not because L & C needed a scapegoat but to avoid him spilling the beans.

This actually makes a lot of sense to me. The “Of Mice and Men” reference may be more apt then we presently know. And you correctly point out that his comment, “You don’t want to know” seems singular in its candor in this lie-laden mess of a case. Didn’t Arthur Conan Doyle make Sherlock Holmes say that singularity is almost always a clue?

 

[JolietJake]

Now that this is out, I wonder if it will change or strengthen whatever strategy JP has for the defense of his client. Since CD was not charged in Arizona, I'd think he can further distance CD from LV and AC. Besides that, with LV being incompetent for an undefined amount of time, it may result in possible severed cases whether the prosecution likes it or not. MM continues on with his unprofessional antics. This all seems to be playing into JP's hands.

 

[Satchie]

Reading through the redacted affidavit, I'm still struggling to discern whether LVD and CD truly believed in all of this.

Now that LVD's been declared incompetent to stand trial and the question of whether or not she could be malingering has come up several times, reading through some of those text messages suggest she wholeheartedly believed she was a "chosen one" given this "mission."

But where I'm confused is, if naysayers and doubters were written off as "dark" by these two, in the small glimpses we've seen of her interactions with police, why was there never any mention of all of this on her end to police? At the PD with Tylee or after CD was shot? One would assume if she was this deep into her beliefs, at some point, she'd have blabbed even to police about Charles being a zombie, or possessed, but no. Everything she seemed to be reporting seemed to be your average collateral damage in a nasty divorce/custody battle (i.e. on the body cam video of her at the PD with MG and Tylee: the suspected affair, Charles "stealing her purse). Granted, we've only seen a small sliver of her interactions with others on video.

I'm not ruling out the possibility that she is seriously mentally ill but it makes you wonder if it really all just was a hit list that grew and grew under the guise of some religious calling but was all for the money.

I don't think it is so black and white. ie completely devious or psychologically insane. Many people genuinely believe things that others might carelessly label as 'insane' or 'crazy': for example, that there are Martians who visit the earth, or even trivial things like that somebody is a good singer that to another is bad, these beliefs are are not true signs of mental illness, just a different opinion.

Latter Day Saints all believe in the coming of the end of the world and the existence of prophets, some Catholics believe that an evil spirit can occupy a body, so-called 'rational' people can believe someone is 'truly evil', all these things are just thoughts we make up in our heads.

I think it's very possible for LV to believe that Chad was a prophet and she was his helpmeet. IMO, the problem was, as the problem always is, that she allowed these beliefs to justify what she unconsciously wanted to do: eliminate her husband, get his insurance money, and marry Chad. Just like a rapist will justify 'all women are #$^&&, and she was asking for it', or a thief will tell themselves some sob story and conclude 'I need it more than they do', or whatever.

 

[Love Never Fails]

So in reading the indictment for Lori, we now know her mother, her sister and Zulema were part of the planning, conspiracy and cover up. I’m sure Melani (her niece) was also. Not to mention Chad and Alex.

So Lori has been indicted.
Zulema has been given immunity.
Alex is dead.

Anyone know why Chad, Lori’s mom and sister, and Melani haven’t been charged as conspirators in the death of Charles?
They ALL knew Charles was going to die. Isn’t it some kind of crime to know a felony is going to be committed and staying silent about it?

Lori's a serial killer. That’s a fact.
I think Chad is also. But maybe that cannot be proven.
Lori’s mom, sister and niece are evil. Just very evil people.

Children have been murdered. They should all go to jail.