Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #4

[jjenny]

Possible, but if so then where is she? Does she realize she's missing?

Per what Lori told witnesses, she died before her father did.

 

[155etta]

I know that has been widely said but how do we know that?

I think she's been gone since her social media went quiet. MOO.

 

[snoflake20]

↑
I am not sure when Colby last talked to Tylee or Joshua either, but it doesn't appear that he talked to them recently?
1hr 6mins - GH Youtube with Family Member/Text exchange The family member relays that Colby heard from Tylee about Charles' killing.
I know of no other contact with Tylee after Charles' death.

The above is my post from the second thread. MOO I'm horrified by this thought.... Colby does not say he speaks with Tylee, I think someone texted him from Tylee's phone. Just like they sent him payments. Lori has Tylee's phone. No one seems to have seen Tylee for a very long time.. MOO Please someone correct me on this.

This episode

 

[BigAl16]

No, it isn't what happens in all religions. I do not know of anybody who has visions and lives by following those visions.

You're right and I was wrong on this one. At least if we take visions and talking to spirits literally or anything close to it what I said wasn't true. Instead they have some written word that's been passed down for centuries interpreted and reinterpreted to figure out their directions.

However, pertinent to our discussion there is at least one major religion that they do believe their leaders have visions, talk to God (literally) and so on. I'll leave it to you to figure out which religion this is.

 

[snoflake20]

Per what Lori told witnesses, she died before her father did.

Which I thought meant she died before Joseph Ryan. But this family tree is so confusing that maybe they thought Lori meant Charles Vallow? MOO

 

[BigAl16]

Per what Lori told witnesses, she died before her father did.

That would be wild. I guess there may be no one who Lori would need to explicitly tell if Tylee died. You're talking before Joseph died, right? That would mean all the reports of her being there when Charles died were wrong, but those are shaky and, IMO, the most recent and most credible claims of her being seen or talked to we've heard about.

 

[Countem]

I keyed into that as well. So it would seem that Tylee wasn't living with them and/or was emancipated (at 16) in Feb 2019. That seems very strange. She seems to have completely disappeared from the picture sometime in 2018.

This is outlandish, but could it be possible that she never left Hawaii with Lori? Are there any social media records from her varying accounts that show that she was posting from somewhere other than Hawaii or verified sightings of her in the continental US (e.g. police report that lists her as a witness to the “self defense” incident) since 2016?

Just throwing this out there for some discussion.

Edit: Sorry. Lost my mind on the timeline.

 

[arizonamomoffour]

Maricopa Family court link, to Lori Vallow. 3 cases, Vallow and first two Ryan. The Ryan case only mentions ONE (1) minor in 2012. I had thought Colby was 21, which would have made him 14 and also a minor party to Joseph Anthony Ryan Family Court case. Only lists one minor. Perhaps Joe had custody of Colby?
Docket - Family Court Case History

 

[arizonamomoffour]

Maricopa Family court link, to Lori Vallow. 3 cases, Vallow and first two Ryan. The Ryan case only mentions ONE (1) minor in 2012. I had thought Colby was 21, which would have made him 14 and also a minor party to Joseph Anthony Ryan Family Court case. Only lists one minor. Perhaps Joe had custody of Colby?
Docket - Family Court Case History

I would hope that to investigators Colby has filled in the blanks.

 

[BigAl16]

Maricopa Family court link, to Lori Vallow. 3 cases, Vallow and first two Ryan. The Ryan case only mentions ONE (1) minor in 2012. I had thought Colby was 21, which would have made him 14 and also a minor party to Joseph Anthony Ryan Family Court case. Only lists one minor. Perhaps Joe had custody of Colby?
Docket - Family Court Case History

Joe wasn't Colby's bio dad, in spite of using his last name. So he might not be listed in this situation.

 

[squareandrabbet]

I just made an account, as a local Mormon rexburg citizen, to make a plea to my fellow members to quit being so defensive about our faith. Just because someone isn’t mainstream doesn’t mean they can’t fully participate in our weekly services with us. And to be honest emotional healing and alternative health Etc is fairly common in LDS culture. (Hello oil MLMs) We have a wide variety of opinions and beliefs even among active weekly members. I don’t think people in this forum are having a hard time grasping that. I’m frustrated at people in these fringe groups claiming full mormonism but of course this has to do with our faith an beliefs — for crying out loud it’s about a man who had dreams/visions as a teenager that set him up as a prophet leading a small group of religious followers, the literal way our faith was founded—of course members will be more susceptible to these types of claims. And the recent ramping up of changes from SLC and some of the things said has effected the timeline these fringe groups see their actions with. Don’t take this as an opportunity to do missionary work and quote articles of faith. Just help give people context to what LV & CD might have been thinking and focus on our task. Yes some of our beliefs sound out there and it’s hard to admit how easily they can be twisted. But this defensiveness and bickering needs to stop MOO

Yes, thank you. It may not be 100% germane to the issue to discuss such things, and I don't really care whether or not CD was excommunicated in the grand scheme of things (or much at all, really).

However, I think it is somewhat important to know what we are talking about, when people of different religions talk about core beliefs. It does, IMO, matter if we are talking about the "same version" of hell/heaven; or if a "same version" of hell/heaven actually occurs between religions, not the least of which is that it might in fact cut down on the non-comprehending people saying "that's the stupidest thing I think I've ever heard. Clearly this is something only an apostate could come up with"; only to find that they need just a little clarification to understand it.

He writes about it here:
16- Paving the way to Paradise | cdaybell.com

For the record, I think everyone reading this thread ought to read at least this one post, which IMO explains a lot of CD's self-aggrandizing tendencies.

I must respectfully disagree. I suspect fellow congregants at the Lutheran church would agree, that there is quite literally nothing within Lutheran doctrine that would be of any benefit in explaining what Dennis Rader (BTK) did. Just because a person was once connected to or associated with "ABC", doesn't mean that ABC can explain anything they've done since.

With all due respect, there is a difference from "once showed up in a church", and "was heavily immersed in every aspect of the church for 4 decades". Was Dennis Rader a devout Baptist? In church every time the doors open? Was he a deacon/elder/usher/other, expected to be in regular weekly contact with his church? When such a type of person "goes bad", you can be absolutely certain that there's a lot of press and fascination about their level of religious affiliation and commitment; and it doesn't always come from a point of view of thinking that everyone Baptist is a weirdo/deluded/other dismissive term about religion.


In my experience with religion, I was taught that it was wrong to speculate and delve too much into the book of Revelations because the Bible also says, about Christ's second coming, "No man knows the hour nor the day"; so all this stuff about knowing who "the remnant" (144,000) is, or even their number, is not doctrinally sound - to my ears. Are CD and LV's beliefs in this aspect doctrinally sound to mainstream LDS teaching? If such-and-such is perfectly normal to a standard practicing temple member, I don't want to be calling it "weird" or suggesting that it "throws up red flags". I certainly don't want someone thinking/going away with the impression that I'm biased against the LDS religion; but in order to pick out red flags that might help trace the presence of poor JJ and Tylee, it seems to me that we should in fact know the difference between a red flag and sound LDS doctrine.

 

[Colorado303]

However, once a person has died, unless they are someone as evil as Hitler, won't they have already entered Heaven via their own religion? So I don't really see the point of baptizing dead relatives again.
If the religious posts end up too numerous perhaps a sub thread for LDS queries would be a possibility.

I quite like the idea of a separate thread just for this case to discuss how religious and theological factors may have played into C/L’s current mindset. This info may also provide clues/ideas to help find them.

There are people here who genuinely want to know and understand aspects of the Mormon religion, folks who want to make sure the questions are answered accurately. And quite a few who just want to stop talking about it.

People on the “theological thread” can report any conclusions about that may help locate the missing or solve a crime. Other than that, what happens in that second thread stays in the second thread. If it gets put of hand and has to be shut down the main thread may be able to stay open.

@sillybilly @Tricia , what do you think?

Either way I for one appreciate the time people have taken to answer my questions so I better understand .

 

[jjenny]

We know based on a Hawaiian school newsletter (referenced in the official timeline that has been compiled) that Tylee was on the December 2018 high school freshman honor roll, so she did, it appears, complete that semester. However, she does disappear from honor rolls for semesters after that.

This is outlandish, but could it be possible that she never left Hawaii with Lori? Are there any social media records from her varying accounts that show that she was posting from somewhere other than Hawaii or verified sightings of her in the continental US in 2019 (e.g. police report that lists her as a witness to the “self defense” incident)?

Just throwing this out there for some discussion.

2016, not 2018.

 

[jjenny]

Which I thought meant she died before Joseph Ryan. But this family tree is so confusing that maybe they thought Lori meant Charles Vallow? MOO

She was still alive when Charles died. But you have a good point, maybe Lori claimed to witnesses Tylee died a year before Charles died (and not Joseph).

 

[KonaHonu]

We know based on a Hawaiian school newsletter (referenced in the official timeline that has been compiled) that Tylee was on the December 2018 high school freshman honor roll, so she did, it appears, complete that semester. However, she does disappear from honor rolls for semesters after that.

This is outlandish, but could it be possible that she never left Hawaii with Lori? Are there any social media records from her varying accounts that show that she was posting from somewhere other than Hawaii or verified sightings of her in the continental US in 2019 (e.g. police report that lists her as a witness to the “self defense” incident)?

Just throwing this out there for some discussion.

I think the honor roll record was December 2016. Do we have any verifiable sighting or evidence of her existence after that. I'm aware of texts and Venmo payments but that just means someone kept up her phone. Her social media activity stopped in late 2016. She changed her Facebook cover photo in March 2017 and was apparently back in Arizona by then. But I have found nothing after that. Coincidentally (?) that would be about the time Lori got involved with the "cult."

 

[jjenny]

Maricopa Family court link, to Lori Vallow. 3 cases, Vallow and first two Ryan. The Ryan case only mentions ONE (1) minor in 2012. I had thought Colby was 21, which would have made him 14 and also a minor party to Joseph Anthony Ryan Family Court case. Only lists one minor. Perhaps Joe had custody of Colby?
Docket - Family Court Case History

Colby is not Joe's biological son. So presumably Joseph only wanted custody of his biological child, Tylee.

 

[mickey2942]

No, notmal LDS folks do not talk about the end of the world, or rapture, whatever...the goal of being prepared for disasters, is actually very sound advice.

Back to Tylee and JJ. Can Lori get away with their disappearance if they are never found?

 

[jjenny]

I would hope that to investigators Colby has filled in the blanks.

I don't think he knows how to fill the blanks. It doesn't appear he talked to either Tylee or Joshua recently.

 

[snoflake20]

She was still alive when Charles died. But you have a good point, maybe Lori claimed to witnesses Tylee died a year before Charles died (and not Joseph).

If you go to Lori's Instagram, a friend of her's tagged Tylee and Lori in posts 78 weeks ago in Hawaii (kauai). I think this is around June/July 2018?

Sorry I had to edit this and change the date and location

 

[arizonamomoffour]

Joe wasn't Colby's bio dad, in spite of using his last name. So he might not be listed in this situation.

thank you