Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #4

[Countem]

2016, not 2018.

I think the honor roll record was December 2016. Do we have any verifiable sighting or evidence of her existence after that. I'm aware of texts and Venmo payments but that just means someone kept up her phone. Her social media activity stopped in late 2016. She changed her Facebook cover photo in March 2017 and was apparently back in Arizona by then. But I have found nothing after that. Coincidentally (?) that would be about the time Lori got involved with the "cult."

Sorry! I momentarily lost my mind!

 

[Mentalheadslap2018]

"The parties have emancipated children along with JJ."

This makes no sense, does it? Unless he's referring to children that each parent has separate from the other, as in Charles has an adult son (it appears) who was on one of the AZ news stories in the last day or so. But then that interpretation would be implying that Tylee is emancipated too.

I'm kind of shocked given all of the things documented here that Charles would then back off and try to make a go of it. He's obviously more forgiving than I would ever be. MOO

It makes sense, I think, in the context it is mentioned - that Lori said she didn't want anything to do with the children, inclusive of the adult children.

 

[Ontario Mom]

With all due respect, there is a difference from "once showed up in a church", and "was heavily immersed in every aspect of the church for 4 decades". Was Dennis Rader a devout Baptist? In church every time the doors open? Was he a deacon/elder/usher/other, expected to be in regular weekly contact with his church?

My reasoning for using Dennis Rader (the BTK killer) as an example, was merely due to the fact he was a member of the Lutheran church, a regular church attendee, and in fact the president (for some time) of the local church council. So yes, this was a man who was very much involved in "church life" and a man who's life outside of those constructs, was a deviant trash bag, to put it mildly. His Lutheran doctrine had 0% to do with his depraved personality. I could also use Thad Cummins (the piece of trash that groomed & kidnapped his student for his own sexually twisted pleasure) as another example - also a very devoted member of his local fellowship. Also another case where church/faith/doctrine has literally nothing to do with the actual crime committed. In this particular case, it's very clear to me that LDS doctrine has absolutely nothing to do with these missing kids.

Moo. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Colorado303]

I'm working on a revision of the original but I probably won't be able to post it until later tonight or Sunday evening. Too much new info came out Friday to do a quick revision/addition and I'm busy with family events this weekend. If you want to catch up on the latest I suggest reading the media thread: ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *MEDIA MAPS TIMELINE* NO DISCUSSION

Thank you for all you’ve done. You deserve a weekend to yourself. My POV — enjoy your family time. We can wait until Monday.

Happy Weekend!

 

[arizonamomoffour]

I don't think he knows how to fill the blanks. It doesn't appear he talked to either Tylee or Joshua recently.

He talks on his "CJ's place" youtube account, about his two missing siblings and what they were like. Another interesting tangent in this case. He's married, has a baby who would be niece/granddaughter to his family, and doesn't appear to be close other than his descriptions in his video's?

 

[tresir2012]

↑
I am not sure when Colby last talked to Tylee or Joshua either, but it doesn't appear that he talked to them recently?
1hr 6mins - GH Youtube with Family Member/Text exchange The family member relays that Colby heard from Tylee about Charles' killing.
I know of no other contact with Tylee after Charles' death.

The above is my post from the second thread. MOO I'm horrified by this thought.... Colby does not say he speaks with Tylee, I think someone texted him from Tylee's phone. Just like they sent him payments. Lori has Tylee's phone. No one seems to have seen Tylee for a very long time.. MOO Please someone correct me on this.

Gardener does have it in the timeline that JJ and Tylee were at the house in July 2019 when Charles was shot. The list of all sources are at the bottom of the timeline post in the media thread.

 

[Sillybilly]

I quite like the idea of a separate thread just for this case to discuss how religious and theological factors may have played into C/L’s current mindset. This info may also provide clues/ideas to help find them.

There are people here who genuinely want to know and understand aspects of the Mormon religion, folks who want to make sure the questions are answered accurately. And quite a few who just want to stop talking about it.

People on the “theological thread” can report any conclusions about that may help locate the missing or solve a crime. Other than that, what happens in that second thread stays in the second thread. If it gets put of hand and has to be shut down the main thread may be able to stay open.

@sillybilly @Tricia , what do you think?

Either way I for one appreciate the time people have taken to answer my questions so I better understand .

Like politics, orientation, gun control, death penalty, Websleuths does not allow discussion of religion UNLESS it is germane to the case. In this case, it certainly appears related, and as long as members can tie their specific information to the case at hand, relevant but limited discussion is being allowed within the thread.

In the past, we've tried allowing dedicated threads for certain of those topics and they have been shut down because they become a moderating nightmare.

 

[arizonamomoffour]

Colby is not Joe's biological son. So presumably Joseph only wanted custody of his biological child, Tylee.

Was Colby adopted by Joe? He uses the last name Ryan. thanks

 

[LHS]

Which I thought meant she died before Joseph Ryan. But this family tree is so confusing that maybe they thought Lori meant Charles Vallow? MOO

This is an interesting idea I don't think we've discussed before.

 

[155etta]

"The search was directly related to the death of Tammy Daybell and not the missing children of Lori Vallow, Chad's new wife."

Police issue search warrant at Chad Daybell's home

Edit: Bolding mine.

 

[Colorado303]

I'm LDS and I'll share the reason that I think the discussion about our (admittedly, unique) doctrine is valuable here: It helps to flesh out just what is our doctrine...vs what is an extremist view or sharp divergence from our doctrine.

I'll also just mention that, as members of the Church, we actually have a relatively small amount of doctrine (some of which, again, is pretty unique.) Outside of a handful of core doctrines, I think a lot of people don't realize that we have wide (WIDE) latitude about the practice of our faith and about carrying out our individual missions and passions in life. Agency is a foundational principle to us as is the ability to access guidance from God. As with other faiths, our members may not be adhering to our doctrine, but still continue to profess faith and attend our services. These things -- unusual doctrine, wide ranging adherence to practices, (never mind that our practices aren't at all stagnant and sometimes can change at an almost alarming rate), agency, revelation --- it must be SO confusing for people to try to understand what in the world we believe.

I also thought it would be good to share some of why I think people become attracted to fringe and extremists groups. First of all, it's probably fairly obvious that we appreciate the idea of "belonging" to something and that we like being part of, and building, a faith community. We don't have professional clergy in our congregations, we do that ourselves. We also put a lot of value on preparedness, preparation -- for both the normal bumps of life and also for our eternal lives. We store food/goods and we set goals. We have the same susceptibility to mental illness that anyone does (and just as an FYI: we have very good access to mental health care, it is not frowned upon at all.) We also tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and we consider everyone with whom we share this planet our brothers and sisters in the family of God. That combination (and especially that last one) can leave members of the Church vulnerable to being taken advantage of in pretty strange ways. We have to be hyper-aware and guard against things like (just one example) affinity fraud. (Another sidebar: It is not at all unusual for our members to be warned about these vulnerabilities. From the pulpit, in congregational meetings.) Our agency also allows us to choose paths that go into grossly immoral and illegal behavior, as some of the people being discussed here appear to have done. At some point, people on those paths are excommunicated from the Church. I wish I could be more specific about where that point typically is, but I've never been up close and personal with someone experiencing it so I can't speak to even one example.

I guess I really just do think that a lot of what is being discussed here turns out to be LDS doctrine and practice (or just Christian doctrine and practice)...that has been turned on its head and twisted into something awful beyond words in what I believe to be a deep descent into mental illness.

In other news, I can't go into details but I know some of the people involved here. So I just want to send all of my love out to Tylee and JJ, Colby, Charles' family, and anyone else who is out there quietly, silently grieving loss or very very afraid right now. If any of you are reading here....I'm heartbroken; you have my love and my prayers that somehow, someday, you will feel some peace in your lives.

Excellent post! Thank you for being here.

 

[Sillybilly]

For any members wishing to read posts about the Mormon faith as it has been discussed at WS in the past, you might try a Google site search with the following search term:

mormon site: www . websleuths . com (removing all spaces after the word site: )

ETA: Sorry previous hyperlink was messed up so removed it to avoid confusion. One should really preview one's post before submitting it to the board

 

[renarde]

This is outlandish, but could it be possible that she never left Hawaii with Lori? Are there any social media records from her varying accounts that show that she was posting from somewhere other than Hawaii or verified sightings of her in the continental US (e.g. police report that lists her as a witness to the “self defense” incident) since 2016?

Just throwing this out there for some discussion.

Edit: Sorry. Lost my mind on the timeline.

I could see this. Tylee could've just stayed in Hawaii starting in 2016. After all, had she returned to Arizona with Lori et al., wouldn't she have gotten back in touch with her Arizona friends? Didn't the family move back to the same area in Arizona?

The last FB post was March of 2017. I think.

Tylee Ryan

 

[Ontario Mom]

In my experience with religion, I was taught that it was wrong to speculate and delve too much into the book of Revelations because the Bible also says, about Christ's second coming, "No man knows the hour nor the day"; so all this stuff about knowing who "the remnant" (144,000) is, or even their number, is not doctrinally sound - to my ears. Are CD and LV's beliefs in this aspect doctrinally sound to mainstream LDS teaching? If such-and-such is perfectly normal to a standard practicing temple member, I don't want to be calling it "weird" or suggesting that it "throws up red flags". I certainly don't want someone thinking/going away with the impression that I'm biased against the LDS religion; but in order to pick out red flags that might help trace the presence of poor JJ and Tylee, it seems to me that we should in fact know the difference between a red flag and sound LDS doctrine.

Entirely O/T but it's the book of Revelation (not plural with an s). Sorry, just a pet peeve of mine. In any case, way back in the thread there were a couple of LDS church members that wondered why the discussion on LDS doctrine was still taking place (as if to connect it somehow with what they've allegedly done?) when it had already been pointed out that Chad and Lori were way out in left field. I agree with those posters.

Moo.

 

[Mentalheadslap2018]

I think this refers to CR, Lori's older son, and I think she may have an older daughter also... as well as Charles' son that has spoken out on Fox 10 in Phoenix in the last couple days. They would all have been adults (emancipated). What I find odd is how little of Tylee is found in that time frame. She wouldn't be an adult at that time (still isn't), and she isn't Charles' child.... but she is Lori's.

I think it refers to both of their respective adult children. In the context it's written, which is what occurred when Lori returned to AZ, "Mother had told Father she did not want anything to do with him or the children, that he could have them and that she had a more important mission to carry out."

 

[snoflake20]

Gardener does have it in the timeline that JJ and Tylee were at the house in July 2019 when Charles was shot. The list of all sources are at the bottom of the timeline post in the media thread.

Can someone listen to this at 1hr 5min 52 seconds and summarize what they hear? It's like a game of telephone. I believe the family insider is on the Cox side of the family, since Colby is relaying information to them. I guess I had assumed everyone had listened to these Youtube shows.

 

[Mentalheadslap2018]

I think this refers to CR, Lori's older son, and I think she may have an older daughter also... as well as Charles' son that has spoken out on Fox 10 in Phoenix in the last couple days. They would all have been adults (emancipated). What I find odd is how little of Tylee is found in that time frame. She wouldn't be an adult at that time (still isn't), and she isn't Charles' child.... but she is Lori's.

I think it refers to both of their respective adult children. In the context it's written, which is what occurred when Lori returned to AZ, "Mother had told Father she did not want anything to do with him or the children, that he could have them and that she had a more important mission to carry out." JJ is described legally in the document as a child they share, whereas that is not the case with Tylee.

 

[155etta]

No, notmal LDS folks do not talk about the end of the world, or rapture, whatever...the goal of being prepared for disasters, is actually very sound advice.

Back to Tylee and JJ. Can Lori get away with their disappearance if they are never found?

Jessica and Vernal have. MOO.

ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #1

 

[jjenny]

I could see this. Tylee could've just stayed in Hawaii starting in 2016. After all, had she returned to Arizona with Lori et al., wouldn't she have gotten back in touch with her Arizona friends? Didn't the family move back to the same area in Arizona?

Tylee Ryan

She didn't stay in Hawaii. There are articles stating that when Charles was shot, Lori was living in the house with her son and daughter. Obviously she came back from Hawaii to Arizona.

 

[afitzy]

Or they flew... which would negate the point of releasing car info.

Do we know if Lori's father still has a plane? I have drawn a blank searching FAA records as it appears he used to have a plane in AZ. Trying to explore the plane angle and understand where that might have taken Chad and Lori.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Colby is not Joe's biological son. So presumably Joseph only wanted custody of his biological child, Tylee.

to say that he only wanted custody vs. he had the ability to ask legally to obtain might be a better way to phrase perhaps?