Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #7

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  • #541
When you do chest compressions it is NOT easy. Especially if you don’t know what you are doing. When my husband did chest compressions on our son, he was completely out of breath and he is a big guy, in shape, and doesn’t tire easily. Plus the adrenaline rush of performing CPR makes your respiratory rate and heart rate quicken.

So um yeah. I don’t buy that he did chest compressions at all.
 
  • #542
he may of been on a bluetooth device

So he turned off the Bluetooth between doing CPR and walking outside while on the phone? Because he had the phone up to his ear when he walked outside.

I’m skeptical a normal person would have the time/wherewithal to turn off speakerphone. But then, we’d almost certainly be able to hear the difference in sound if he was on speaker... and we’d definitely hear the change in sound if he switched from on to another.

I’m sorry, but that video raises more questions than it resolves... including about the competence of law enforcement.
 
  • #543
I haven’t listened to that many 911 calls myself, but I personally have called a few times. I’ve never sounded that calm, even when just reporting a drunk driver.

I’m wondering if by chance Alex was on some meds that produced this type of “flat affect”. I would argue Lori is unstable and should be on meds so it’s possible Alex was- family genetics and all?

I do wonder if the car was blocking her exit and that’s why she took it. It did look like the truck was taking a little of room in the driveway, and depending on where JJ sat in the car I could see leaving room to open the door wide and put him in myself.

Can someone clarify whose room they think the gun was in? I took a screen grab from Gray’s video last night where he enhanced the gun laying next to that bag in the striped room. Also, I’m not familiar with a gun bag. Do those lock? How do you keep a kid from getting in that? If they lock, he would have had to unlock it, and what was Charles really doing during that time?
 
  • #544
DBM - Duplicate
 
  • #545
911 operator: "And are you wanting to start CPR?" BBM
Alex: *long pause* "No, I don't know how to do that."
911 operator: *quickly* "I can walk you through it!"
Alex: "ok"

Rsbm
A doomsday prepper that doesn't know CPR? Yeah right. Moo.
 
  • #546
I haven’t listened to that many 911 calls myself, but I personally have called a few times. I’ve never sounded that calm, even when just reporting a drunk driver.

I’m wondering if by chance Alex was on some meds that produced this type of “flat affect”. I would argue Lori is unstable and should be on meds so it’s possible Alex was- family genetics and all?

I do wonder if the car was blocking her exit and that’s why she took it. It did look like the truck was taking a little of room in the driveway, and depending on where JJ sat in the car I could see leaving room to open the door wide and put him in myself.

Can someone clarify whose room they think the gun was in? I took a screen grab from Gray’s video last night where he enhanced the gun laying next to that bag in the striped room. Also, I’m not familiar with a gun bag. Do those lock? How do you keep a kid from getting in that? If they lock, he would have had to unlock it, and what was Charles really doing during that time?

I thought I heard Alex say he went into "his" room and retrieved the gun. (Second police cam video). But, then again... I think some speculated Alex wasn't staying there.

ETA. Approx 1:33 in video AC says, "I went to my room and got my gun"
 
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  • #547
Lori took Charles' rental car. How did she get the keys? Looks like Charles had no ID on him when police arrived. So was his wallet taken from his dead body? Or when he was still alive? Or did he leave his wallet in the car?
His phone was somehow taken when he arrived, and as such he couldn't even call for help.
I'm wondering if Charles wasn't going to come into the house, maybe he was expecting for JJ just to come out and they drive off together, so he has the car running (it was a July day in AZ afterall). JJ gets into the car but Lori comes out and grabs his phone or somehow lures Charles into the house? TOTAL SPECULATION and MOO!
 
  • #548
I wonder if that's the most calm, cool, and collected 911 call involving a shooting, those operators have ever heard? Most calls I've heard here at WS, the caller is so frantic small details escape them. Alex spells names, answers questions and isn't even breathing hard doing CPR? Surreal to listen to.
Why wait 5 mins to call 911. To make sure he had died? That is crazy.
 
  • #549
I haven’t listened to that many 911 calls myself, but I personally have called a few times. I’ve never sounded that calm, even when just reporting a drunk driver.

I haven’t listened to the call yet, but I’ve worked as a dispatcher, though it’s been 18 years ago, so certainly many things have changed. And I’ve called myself, too many times to count, for everything from drunk drivers and fires to FIGHTS. It’s never occurred to me to wait to call AFTER the incident - instead, one tends to call as quickly as possible.

If the initial part of the incident went down as stated, Tylee would have been upset then, too. She’d likely have wanted to call during the fight, as a normal reaction.

Honestly, the most generous, benefit of the doubt-giving (toward Alex & Lori) interpretation that I can come up with is deliberately escalating the situation. And then it goes downhill into premeditated.

And why was Alex outside? Does the dispatcher on the call tell him to go outside when the cops arrived?

I’m just... the gun was in a different room. The body was blatantly laid out. There’s not enough blood anywhere there should be blood. If Charles was coming toward him with a baseball bat, the scene wouldn’t look like that. He’d fall forward, or at least disorganized... and blood likely would have gone on the floor... and been obvious on that wood floor.

His phone, though? Where’d it turn up? With Lori? I bet she took it out of his shorts pocket... and I bet she took it because he was - or she thought he was - recording audio or video.

That phone should probably have been confiscated and searched - especially as it belonged to the deceased. I wonder if they even got it back from Lori and turned it over to his family?
 
  • #550
I haven’t listened to that many 911 calls myself, but I personally have called a few times. I’ve never sounded that calm, even when just reporting a drunk driver.

I’m wondering if by chance Alex was on some meds that produced this type of “flat affect”. I would argue Lori is unstable and should be on meds so it’s possible Alex was- family genetics and all?

I do wonder if the car was blocking her exit and that’s why she took it. It did look like the truck was taking a little of room in the driveway, and depending on where JJ sat in the car I could see leaving room to open the door wide and put him in myself.

Can someone clarify whose room they think the gun was in? I took a screen grab from Gray’s video last night where he enhanced the gun laying next to that bag in the striped room. Also, I’m not familiar with a gun bag. Do those lock? How do you keep a kid from getting in that? If they lock, he would have had to unlock it, and what was Charles really doing during that time?
Bbm
No, they dont usually lock. You could buy a loop type lock to use, but that would defeat the purpose of having it quickly available. It is supposed to be attended, just like a concealed carry purse where the holster compartment is just zipped but not locked. Normally, in states where guns have to be locked up, you would either remove the gun from the bag and put in a safe, or just stash the whole bag in the safe when you're not using it. I don't think this group was really big on following laws though. Moo.
 
  • #551
I just want to point out he wasn't on Bluetooth. When he came out of the house to meet LE you can see from the body cam he had both hands up while using his shoulder to keep his phone to his ear while talking to 911. LE reported this as well.
I agree and you can put your phone on speaker so you have both hands free for CPR.
 
  • #552
  • #553
Bbm
No, they dont usually lock. You could buy a loop type lock to use, but that would defeat the purpose of having it quickly available. It is supposed to be attended, just like a concealed carry purse where the holster compartment is just zipped but not locked. Normally, in states where guns have to be locked up, you would either remove the gun from the bag and put in a safe, or just stash the whole bag in the safe when you're not using it. I don't think this group was really big on following laws though. Moo.
So he can have an unlocked bag with a loaded gun in it, lying around where a 7 year old autistic boy is living? That's legal in Az?
 
  • #554
So he can have an unlocked bag with a loaded gun in it, lying around where a 7 year old autistic boy is living? That's legal in Az?

That's stupidity in AZ. Jmo
 
  • #555
Bbm
No, they dont usually lock. You could buy a loop type lock to use, but that would defeat the purpose of having it quickly available. It is supposed to be attended, just like a concealed carry purse where the holster compartment is just zipped but not locked. Normally, in states where guns have to be locked up, you would either remove the gun from the bag and put in a safe, or just stash the whole bag in the safe when you're not using it. I don't think this group was really big on following laws though. Moo.

I don't think Lori and Alex were big on following any laws ;)
 
  • #556
I haven’t listened to that many 911 calls myself, but I personally have called a few times. I’ve never sounded that calm, even when just reporting a drunk driver.

I’m wondering if by chance Alex was on some meds that produced this type of “flat affect”. I would argue Lori is unstable and should be on meds so it’s possible Alex was- family genetics and all?

I do wonder if the car was blocking her exit and that’s why she took it. It did look like the truck was taking a little of room in the driveway, and depending on where JJ sat in the car I could see leaving room to open the door wide and put him in myself.

Can someone clarify whose room they think the gun was in? I took a screen grab from Gray’s video last night where he enhanced the gun laying next to that bag in the striped room. Also, I’m not familiar with a gun bag. Do those lock? How do you keep a kid from getting in that? If they lock, he would have had to unlock it, and what was Charles really doing during that time?

I personally think it was in Tylee's room. I think JJ had the child's bedroom we don't see in the body cam footage, Lori had the master, Tylee had the pink room with black and white stripes, and the messy blue room was where Alex was staying. The gun bag next to the gun leads me to believe the gun must have been in there to begin with, instead of Alex just tossing it in there after he shot CV. That has been and continues to be odd to me.
 
  • #557
I haven’t listened to the call yet, but I’ve worked as a dispatcher, though it’s been 18 years ago, so certainly many things have changed. And I’ve called myself, too many times to count, for everything from drunk drivers and fires to FIGHTS. It’s never occurred to me to wait to call AFTER the incident - instead, one tends to call as quickly as possible.

If the initial part of the incident went down as stated, Tylee would have been upset then, too. She’d likely have wanted to call during the fight, as a normal reaction.

Honestly, the most generous, benefit of the doubt-giving (toward Alex & Lori) interpretation that I can come up with is deliberately escalating the situation. And then it goes downhill into premeditated.

And why was Alex outside? Does the dispatcher on the call tell him to go outside when the cops arrived?

I’m just... the gun was in a different room. The body was blatantly laid out. There’s not enough blood anywhere there should be blood. If Charles was coming toward him with a baseball bat, the scene wouldn’t look like that. He’d fall forward, or at least disorganized... and blood likely would have gone on the floor... and been obvious on that wood floor.

His phone, though? Where’d it turn up? With Lori? I bet she took it out of his shorts pocket... and I bet she took it because he was - or she thought he was - recording audio or video.

That phone should probably have been confiscated and searched - especially as it belonged to the deceased. I wonder if they even got it back from Lori and turned it over to his family?

I have all the same problems. The bat was next to CV, but the gun was in an entirely different room? I suppose it's POSSIBLE CV fell in that position, but it absolutely looks posed. If he was moved or rearranged, where are the blood smears? How is there no pool of blood around CV's body? Surely two bullet wounds that have exited the body and killed a man would produce a large amount of blood, even if we account for the blurring in the video and his body/clothing soaking some of it up. The whole thing is so fishy.

And yes, dispatch told Alex to go outside without the gun and with his hands up when the police arrived.
 
  • #558
Bbm
No, they dont usually lock. You could buy a loop type lock to use, but that would defeat the purpose of having it quickly available. It is supposed to be attended, just like a concealed carry purse where the holster compartment is just zipped but not locked. Normally, in states where guns have to be locked up, you would either remove the gun from the bag and put in a safe, or just stash the whole bag in the safe when you're not using it. I don't think this group was really big on following laws though. Moo.
And one of my reasons in asking is, even that, an unlocked gun in the house with a child doesn’t seem to have prompted CPS, that we know of.
 
  • #559
So who now has CV's phone? AZ PD? FBI? Rexburg PD? Lori? If Lori has it, can it be pinged?

Even though Lori had reportedly taken CV's phone earlier, did she have it with her in CV's rental on the way to JJ's school, or did Alex maybe have it with him at the house? I assume Lori had it with her in the car, and that she knew how to access the device using a password - otherwise why take the phone in the first place? It would seem stupid for her to be in possession of it now, unless she doesn't care if LE knows where she is.

Would AZ police have even known about the phone - or asked her for it (given that they readily accepted AC's self-defense claim)? Shouldn't it have been considered evidence? Maybe it's good if they didn't,

And up in Rexburg, has it ever been confirmed whose phone/device it was that was pinged (by AZ LE)? I guess I first assumed it was Tylee's (thinking JJ was too young to have a phone), but I think the "missing person" case that prompted AZ LE/FBI) to call Rexburg was specifically in regard to JJ. So maybe JJ did have a phone or ping able device of some kind (one that contained the apps which helped calm him down).

Other thoughts on devices, pinging, and search warrants:

I don't think Tylee has had access to her own phone since CV's death. Lori's Venmo account was used to transfer $ to CR in June, but after that it was always Tylee's account that was used (I presume, by Lori). I guess a Venmo account can be accessed via someone else's mobile device, but it seems LE could figure out which phone was used to access Tylee's acct. and send the money.

I think the search warrant that was executed at Lori's town home in Rexburg was actually issued by AZ LE. It sounds like the 10:13 am ping that occurred "right now" at the "general location" was not what prompted the warrant, but was in-addition-to the warrant, just something that happened as Rexburg PD were preparing to head over. Maybe that ping is what prompted LE to add the other 2 rented town homes to the warrant (if they weren't already included in the warrant), idk.

And since the Rexburg PD did search the other 2 town homes: Alex's, and the one being rented by Lori's sister (a person some believe may actually been Melani, but that identification issue could be resolved by now), could the ping have come from one of those "other" locations rather than from Lori's? How precise can a ping be?

As far as I know, no subsequent pinging of this phone/device has been reported by LE, so I assume the phone/device was collected as evidence at one of the three town homes. Again, I assumed the term "missing person" applied to JJ, and at most applied to Tylee, - but not to Alex (even if he was perhaps being sought for questioning in the BB shooting investigation or the children's disappearance) or to Melani (even if she was perhaps likewise being sought for questioning in the the BB shooting investigation). Coming full circle, could it have even been CV's phone that was pinged by AZ LE in an effort to locate Alex or Lori in the bigger effort to find JJ and/or Tylee (again, assuming AZ LE hadn't collected it earlier)?
 
  • #560
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