Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #8

[indicolite22]

Let's suppose that at least some of Chad's children believe he really has visions and sees future events. All Chad would have to do is tell his children he "saw" Lori as his future wife in a vision. Or he could say his deceased grandfather came to him in a dream and said it would be "a blessing" if he married Lori. If his children believe in Chad as a prophet, then he can get away with whatever he wants to (with them anyway), as long as he couches it in the wording of "I had a vision..."

MOO.

How come he didn't forsee Tammy's death then? (I know he said to his writer friend that he did.) He could have saved her if he knew how it would happen.

 

[Gardener1850]

I think this was reported, and I'll have to find where. I believe it was reported that Chad and/or Lori maintained phone contact with LE for a day or two after the Nov. 27 check, and gave LE a few more stories about where the kids were. Each time LE checked into a story, it proved untrue. The last straw of stories seems to be that Tylee ran away with JJ and their whereabouts were unknown--begging the question from LE to Lori, "Then why didn't you report your kids missing, if they had run away/were missing?"

The difficult thing with finding some of the earlier media coverage is that some media outlet overwrite the same stories/links as more info becomes available in a 24-ish hour period. So, the story that once had certain words in it may later have other words.

Yes, this is from one of the earlier news stories:

No one involved in this case has been charged with any crime, but Turman said the parents have repeatedly lied about the whereabouts of the children.

“They’ve told us several stories about where the children are, but when we investigate, the children don’t exist where they say they should,” he said. “We don’t know where they are at, but we think they are in pretty serious danger.”

On Nov. 26, Rexburg Police tried to conduct a welfare check on Joshua Vallow, Lori Vallow’s adopted 7-year-old special needs son, at their home at 565 Pioneer Road in Rexburg. Relatives outside of Idaho had requested the check because they hadn’t spoken to Joshua since September.

Rexburg investigators spoke with Vallow and Daybell, who said Joshua was staying with a family friend in Arizona. That turned out to be a lie, Turman said.

On Nov 27, Rexburg police executed search warrants at locations in Rexburg associated with Vallow, in an attempt to locate Joshua. As the search warrants were being executed, investigators determined that Vallow and Daybell had abruptly left their home and Rexburg. Police do not believe the children were with them when they left.


Turman said they have been in contact with the couple, but authorities do not know where they are, and they continue to be uncooperative.

Police searching for Rexburg children believed to be in serious danger | East Idaho News

BBM.

 

[nopynono]

How come he didn't forsee Tammy's death then? (I know he said to his writer friend that he did.) He could have saved her if he knew how it would happen.

Hey, if its god's plan to let Tammy die so he can quickly marry another woman, who's he to argue?

 

[RexburgSleuth]

How come he didn't forsee Tammy's death then? (I know he said to his writer friend that he did.) He could have saved her if he knew how it would happen.

MOO: or...if he thought he dodged the literal and proverbial "bullet" and somehow prevented her death when the assailant attempted on Oct 9.

 

[indicolite22]

MOO: or...if he thought he dodged the literal and proverbial "bullet" and somehow prevented her death when the assailant attempted on Oct 9.

Did Chad intervene at all in that incident? I still can't decide if that was the work of an incompetent assassin or a prankster.

 

[Gardener1850]

I think this was reported, and I'll have to find where. I believe it was reported that Chad and/or Lori maintained phone contact with LE for a day or two after the Nov. 27 check, and gave LE a few more stories about where the kids were. Each time LE checked into a story, it proved untrue. The last straw of stories seems to be that Tylee ran away with JJ and their whereabouts were unknown--begging the question from LE to Lori, "Then why didn't you report your kids missing, if they had run away/were missing?"

The difficult thing with finding some of the earlier media coverage is that some media outlet overwrite the same stories/links as more info becomes available in a 24-ish hour period. So, the story that once had certain words in it may later have other words.

Here's a quote from the Fremont County Sheriff about Tylee running away with JJ:

'There are people who have died strangely in several places, and two kids that we have absolutely no idea where they are.

'Add to that, the mother is known to have told family members that her daughter died a year ago, which we know is not true.

'And then she claimed that the 17-year-old had run off with the 7-year-old and didn't say anything to authorities.

'What kind of parent doesn't help try to find their own kids when they are missing?' he said.

Police suspect Idaho cult leader's first wife was POISONED | Daily Mail Online

 

[UnknownSleuth]

Let's suppose that at least some of Chad's children believe he really has visions and sees future events. All Chad would have to do is tell his children he "saw" Lori as his future wife in a vision. Or he could say his deceased grandfather came to him in a dream and said it would be "a blessing" if he married Lori. If his children believe in Chad as a prophet, then he can get away with whatever he wants to (with them anyway), as long as he couches it in the wording of "I had a vision..."

I read all through Chad's old blog posts, too, and noticed this pattern. It's likely that some or all of Chad's kids were his first "followers" as far as believers of his visions. One daughter is very close with the famous author, and was the voice for the audio versions of that author's books published with Chad, and vehemently defended that author.

We can only speculate, but these kids also likely aren't the first in their circle to face their widowed dad remarrying really quickly. Quick engagements/first marriages and quick remarriages (especially by widowers) are more common in the Mormon population than in the general population. Almost everyone knows several people who were engaged within two or three weeks, and at least one widow/widower remarried within a month of their spouse's death. "Once you know, you know." The reasoning is usually backed by "we prayed about it" and had a witness of the spirit.

I'm not meaning to veer too far into religious beliefs, but only to say that if Chad said it was "meant to be," it might be very difficult for some or all of the kids to get on board with, but there would be precedent and they would likely fall in line and deal with it. Their dad is young and they surely didn't expect him to be single forever (or even for long). In Mormon theology, everyone grows up knowing men can be sealed to more than one woman (married for eternity). Only one at a time, on earth (currently), but they all end up together in heaven. So, religiously, Chad wasn't throwing Tammy over for Lori, but merely adding Lori to the mix. Plus, if Chad and Lori didn't ever get sealed, this was just a marriage "for time" (until death) and the kids' mom would always be the wife in heaven. The timing is super quick, but I doubt they knew much about Lori other than that she, too, was part of the same crowd/beliefs (both in terms of Mormonism and also the spiritual prepper stuff), and was not married. A perfect match!

Tammy and Chad knew each other for ten weeks before getting engaged, and they were married three months later. Chad said a woman on his mission saw in a vision (while receiving a hands-on blessing from Chad) the person Chad would marry, and described the girl to him. Later, Chad saw Tammy's photo in an old yearbook and "recognized" her from the vision. So, there is a history of visions and Chad's marriage choices, as well as a history of quick engagements (there's a difference between two weeks and two months, but they're both short, and per the vision, Chad knew *before ever meeting Tammy* that he would marry her.

 

[UnknownSleuth]

Here's a quote from the Fremont County Sheriff about Tylee running away with JJ:

'There are people who have died strangely in several places, and two kids that we have absolutely no idea where they are.

'Add to that, the mother is known to have told family members that her daughter died a year ago, which we know is not true.

'And then she claimed that the 17-year-old had run off with the 7-year-old and didn't say anything to authorities.

'What kind of parent doesn't help try to find their own kids when they are missing?' he said.

Police suspect Idaho cult leader's first wife was POISONED | Daily Mail Online

Thanks for finding it. I recall it was in the long interview with the FC Sheriff (there's a video of the whole thing). I also think it was reported in some of the very early coverage (about staying in contact for one or two days by phone, on/around Thanksgiving). Interesting that we now know from the VI that Chad was traveling with family for at least some of that time, and maybe not with Lori? While the other two couples got married in Vegas that weekend (and I suppose I assumed Lori was there).

 

[indicolite22]

'Add to that, the mother is known to have told family members that her daughter died a year ago, which we know is not true.

Police suspect Idaho cult leader's first wife was POISONED | Daily Mail Online

Isn't it strange that she wouldn't tell (some of) her family about her daughter dying for a year? Or was it Chad's family? Would any of their families volunteer this information to the police?

ETA: If they actually told that to family, there's a greater chance that children are no longer alive, as they couldn't explain them reappearing after being declared dead.

 

[UnknownSleuth]

Isn't it strange that she wouldn't tell (some of) her family about her daughter dying for a year? Or was it Chad's family? Would any of their families volunteer this information to the police?

My impression was it was Chad's family.

 

[Gardener1850]

How come he didn't forsee Tammy's death then? (I know he said to his writer friend that he did.) He could have saved her if he knew how it would happen.

Obviously, he is not really a prophet... Missing from his blog posts is what he does or how he reacts when his visions don't come true. Because that would paint him in a negative light. It seems like he reacts by ignoring the incorrect vision and doing what he wants regardless of the false prediction. For example, at one point he said he wasn't going to release his new book until after there was a major earthquake in the Western US (BBM):

Here’s an update on my writing projects. I’m close to finishing “Reclaiming Liberty,” but as I explained several months ago, two key events must happen before it is released: the U.S. presidential election and a major earthquake in the western United States. (One down, one to go.)

The specific details of the earthquake are essential to the back stories of some new characters, so I must wait before releasing the book. If the earthquake doesn’t come for a while, I’m perfectly fine with that as well!

Meanwhile, I have felt prompted to release a short autobiography entitled “Living on the Edge of Heaven” that discusses my two near-death experiences and my interactions with relatives on the other side of the veil. I hope you’ll find the book to be interesting and enlightening. More details to come soon!

This entry was posted in All Posts on March 7, 2017.

cdaybell.com | The Official Website for Chad Daybell

He released his autobiography in May 2017. A little over a year later on June 27, 2018 he announces the release of "Reclaiming Liberty" and doesn't mention any earthquake happening. I looked to see if there was an earthquake that fit the time period and I didn't see any that I would call "major".

I think Chad does whatever he wants to do, when he wants to do it. I think he knew how long it would take him to write the final book and he gambled that there would be an earthquake within the year. When there wasn't any major earthquake he published the book anyway-- because the reality is probably that he needed whatever little revenue the book may bring in. I don't think he got wealthy from his writing, but he was trying to cash in on any of his fans who believe his visions to be real. MOO.

As for his children and his visions about Tammy's manner of death being wrong-- people who strongly want to believe in Chad may point out that he got it partially right-- Tammy died after all! (Obviously I don't believe Chad can see the future but his children and his followers may really believe he predicted it). This is all so very dangerous. This is how cult leaders get control over people who believe in them. MOO.

 

[BigAl16]

Isn't it strange that she wouldn't tell (some of) her family about her daughter dying for a year? Or was it Chad's family? Would any of their families volunteer this information to the police?

ETA: If they actually told that to family, there's a greater chance that children are no longer alive, as they couldn't explain them reappearing after being declared dead.

If they told Chad's family that Tylee died over a year ago then I wonder what they think if they've bothered to watch the body cam video of Tylee talking to the police at Charles shooting only 6 months prior. Perhaps this was actually not body cam video, but a capture of Chad's vision of what Tylee would have said at the time. MOO.

 

[nopynono]

Isn't it strange that she wouldn't tell (some of) her family about her daughter dying for a year? Or was it Chad's family? Would any of their families volunteer this information to the police?

ETA: If they actually told that to family, there's a greater chance that children are no longer alive, as they couldn't explain them reappearing after being declared dead.

That's really the only thing that I cant wrap my head around if its a custody thing and the kids are in hiding. I suppose Chad could just say he had to lie to protect the kids and all would be forgiven, but there are way too many ways to go about it rather than saying the kids are dead or nonexistent.

 

[BigAl16]

As for his children and his visions about Tammy's manner of death being wrong-- people who strongly want to believe in Chad may point out that he got it partially right-- Tammy died after all! (Obviously I don't believe Chad can see the future but his children and his followers may really believe he predicted it). This is all so very dangerous. This is how cult leaders get control over people who believe in them. MOO.

I have to tread very carefully here, but have a comment that I think is pertinent. MOO.

To many people, hearing this kind of claim about seeing visions or the future sounds crazy and there is zero chance it will be believed. I'm not sure I'd call this kind of thing normal, but can say that in the culture Chad grew up in these kind of claims aren't unheard of nor are they completely unbelieved. I'm not sure I'd call it frequent or typical, but it is definitely not way out there either. And based on my experience it is the kind of claim more likely to come from someone who based on position in the culture is going to be viewed as more credible than average. All of this is to say that while it seems out there for Chad's kids or anyone else to think these things really happened and for Chad to seem really unique in making these kind of claims, he's not.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

Yes, this is from one of the earlier news stories:

No one involved in this case has been charged with any crime, but Turman said the parents have repeatedly lied about the whereabouts of the children.

“They’ve told us several stories about where the children are, but when we investigate, the children don’t exist where they say they should,” he said. “We don’t know where they are at, but we think they are in pretty serious danger.”

On Nov. 26, Rexburg Police tried to conduct a welfare check on Joshua Vallow, Lori Vallow’s adopted 7-year-old special needs son, at their home at 565 Pioneer Road in Rexburg. Relatives outside of Idaho had requested the check because they hadn’t spoken to Joshua since September.

Rexburg investigators spoke with Vallow and Daybell, who said Joshua was staying with a family friend in Arizona. That turned out to be a lie, Turman said.

On Nov 27, Rexburg police executed search warrants at locations in Rexburg associated with Vallow, in an attempt to locate Joshua. As the search warrants were being executed, investigators determined that Vallow and Daybell had abruptly left their home and Rexburg. Police do not believe the children were with them when they left.


Turman said they have been in contact with the couple, but authorities do not know where they are, and they continue to be uncooperative.

Police searching for Rexburg children believed to be in serious danger | East Idaho News

BBM.

I wish a reporter would dig into why there isn’t an arrest warrant out for them and what it would take to get one or if there is one or if one isn’t needed. Also if it’s true if The Woodcocks were to file for emergency custody would that change anything. Because it does appear they’ve given multiple stories. This is nuts. Should we assume there is an arrest warrant issued? Does there have to be if FBI involved?

 

[diggndeeperstill]

I was trying to get to the askfm account and can’t. Do I need an app? @tealrose ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #5

 

[janewall]

SBM for focus.

Meanwhile, I have felt prompted to release a short autobiography entitled “Living on the Edge of Heaven”
....
I think Chad does whatever he wants to do, when he wants to do it. MOO.

But he's been prompted!

I believe that 'prompting' is one key to his getting away with erratic or self-indulgent actions, among those who might otherwise question his judgment or even his character. 'To be prompted' is a magical concept! It turns a whim or desire into a vision from God!

I'm considering trying this myself.

But seriously, this claim on the will of a higher power is a pretty classic form of manipulation.

 

[Ohmeohmy]

I have to tread very carefully here, but have a comment that I think is pertinent. MOO.

To many people, hearing this kind of claim about seeing visions or the future sounds crazy and there is zero chance it will be believed. I'm not sure I'd call this kind of thing normal, but can say that in the culture Chad grew up in these kind of claims aren't unheard of nor are they completely unbelieved. I'm not sure I'd call it frequent or typical, but it is definitely not way out there either. And based on my experience it is the kind of claim more likely to come from someone who based on position in the culture is going to be viewed as more credible than average. All of this is to say that while it seems out there for Chad's kids or anyone else to think these things really happened and for Chad to seem really unique in making these kind of claims, he's not.

Agreed...

 

[fred&edna]

But seriously, this claim on the will of a higher power is a pretty classic form of manipulation.

Nearly as old as time itself!

ITA

 

[mickey2942]

Unreported missing - Wikipedia

This is incredible. How many children who are missing, and were never reported as "missing".

This is rather ominous, these kids were also never reported as "missing". Their Father decided to "homeschool" them. They were found dead, in the backyard.

Children found dead in yard prompts agency to change policy