Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #22

[BigAl16]

You're right about cremation, but I don't know where you're getting this idea about autopsies from. It's possible you're right -- I'm not an expert on autopsies within Mormonism. But it seems that those with LDS experience that I've seen here aren't with you on the autopsies part.

You're of course correct when you say some families may not go for autopsies, but again help us understand where you're getting the claim about LDS culture/tradition.

(Sorry to be a little picky here, but): I also don't really agree that "Chad wasn't your everyday Mormon" either, unless you're only talking about his unorthodox beliefs/visions. But it seems that you're implying that he was perhaps more "traditional/old school" than most Mormons (maybe I'm interpreting you wrong). I know of no evidence to support that. His family/background seems entirely normal for active Utah Mormons.

And the logic I laid out for why an autopsy shouldn't be an issue in Mormon beliefs, at least IMO, would hold up for cremation as well, but you're right, there was a time when that definitely wasn't considered okay and I suspect that still lingers. So I was thinking maybe that feeling used to be there for autopsies too, but I'm not young and when I was plugged in to current thinking they were an issue that I remember whereas back in that day cremation definitely was.

MOO

 

[v0x]

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[tresir2012]

On FindAGrave, it says he was cremated. So what are they autopsying? Or is that incorrect?

Ok so he was 51 when he died, a month off 52. Someone was asking about ages. He was older than Lori.

Regarding autopsy they would take all they needed, organs, hair, blood and tissue samples for testing. With Tammy they exhumed her body and reburied it very quickly, within a day, I believe. Thank you for posting this, I didn't know he had been cremated and it is interesting the obit cleary states he died in suspicious circumstances.

 

[squareandrabbet]

This thread is moving so fast. I can't keep up. I'm just trying to skim through. Whew.

Last night I went to a 2-hour movie, and came back to 5 solid hours' worth of thread-reading on one single case, lol.

MOO - The IP cooperating revealed in the court documents is suspicious to me as well. Impossible to tell who is telling the truth without more info from LE. But, if BB is being truthful, and I'm more likely to believe him than MBP, perhaps LE revealed the IP info to BB lawyers to create division.

Maybe IP was grabbed on the fly as a hostile witness for the affidavit?

I mean, the more I think about it, the more I think we're the only people saying or characterizing this as "cooperation".

Just because you get answers out of someone, doesn't mean they're collaborators, or even sympathetic to your point of view - that was the mistake I made when mentally characterizing and referring to MBP as "giving information", after the affidavit first came to light. Just because somebody gives you answers and doesn't "no comment" you, doesn't mean they're actively "cooperating".

 

[tresir2012]

On FindAGrave, it says he was cremated. So what are they autopsying? Or is that incorrect?

Ok so he was 51 when he died, a month off 52. Someone was asking about ages. He was older than Lori.

Regarding autopsy they would take all they needed, organs, hair, blood and tissue samples for testing. With Tammy they exhumed her body and reburied it very quickly, within a day, I believe. Thank you for posting this, I didn't know he had been cremated and it is interesting the obit clearly states he died in suspicious circumstances.

 

[kye0001]

You are correct. We have heard from the beginning that LE has some video of the vehicle involved in the attempt on BB. That video has not been released AFAIK, so we don't know how clear it is or if the driver can be identified. But we were told that the vehicle was positively identified.

Thanks, I found it on your amazing timeline in the end and breathed a sigh of relief that I wasn’t going mad . I started hoping I hadn’t dreamed it MOO

 

[BigAl16]

AC, LVD, and Tylee were all taken in for questioning.

Wasn't there a video from the drive to and/or from the station where they were all in a great mood like nothing of consequence happened?

 

[Gardener1850]

The Daily Mail had an article saying they first did a podcast together in Dec 2017.
From the timeline I have:

Dec 2017 – Lori and Chad made their first appearance together on a podcast (Daily Mail)

I can't recall if we have any other verification of that claim and Daily Mail can sometimes get things wrong... I'll see if I can find the article I pulled that factoid from.

@Picklepuck
Here's the source quote for above:

The pair made their first appearance together in December 2017 on a podcast for Preparing a People, a group which, according to its website, organizes conferences and lectures for those who 'look forward to the rapidly coming changes to our current Telestial way of life, and rejoice in the hope of a far better world to soon come!'

Doomsday couple Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell leave Kaua'i hideout amid ongoing search for her kids | Daily Mail Online

 

[montegrl]

MOO - The IP cooperating revealed in the court documents is suspicious to me as well. Impossible to tell who is telling the truth without more info from LE. But, if BB is being truthful, and I'm more likely to believe him than MBP, perhaps LE revealed the IP info to BB lawyers to create division.

What I think is interesting is that BB's attorneys asked for an evidentiary hearing yesterday. They may have received some information as part of a discovery process. I'm not entirely sure LE would be as forthcoming as that document states but there might be something that at least partially backs up his statements. We haven't seen anything from MBP that refutes it on the record, that letter she wrote was not part of the court proceedings. I agree with you that I am more likely to believe him. And of course MOO, this is pure speculation on my part.

 

[tresir2012]

Last night I went to a 2-hour movie, and came back to 5 solid hours' worth of thread-reading on one single case, lol.



Maybe IP was grabbed on the fly as a hostile witness for the affidavit?

I mean, the more I think about it, the more I think we're the only people saying or characterizing this as "cooperation".

Just because you get answers out of someone, doesn't mean they're collaborators, or even sympathetic to your point of view - that was the mistake I made when mentally characterizing and referring to MBP as "giving information", after the affidavit first came to light. Just because somebody gives you answers and doesn't "no comment" you, doesn't mean they're actively "cooperating".

It is possible they were looking at him as the possible shooter so he implicated Alex. I don't know why he would implicate MBP though but maybe the jeep was the one photographed by the PI who was following MBP. Blame the dead man.
AJMO

 

[BigAl16]

I agree, and imagine that being a mod involves many judgement calls, not always clear-cut. Surely, despite the TOS, mods might differ in their interpretations. No doubt not every post can be vetted (ok'd) immediately when it is sent. MOO

Just be careful not to discuss funeral potatoes. Funerals are okay, but the potatoes take it over the edge.

MOO

 

[COSCitizen]

DBM - off-topic

 

[investigatefred]

Anyone can add a grave/burial info on find A grave.... I wouldn't put too much weight on what you see there stating he was cremated (yet)... If you look at the bottom it states they got the information from Wikipedia...the SOURCE of who created it is also someone who seemingly adds random people on there.... MOO of course.

Ok so he was 51 when he died, a month off 52. Someone was asking about ages. He was older than Lori.

Regarding autopsy they would take all they needed, organs, hair, blood and tissue samples for testing. With Tammy they exhumed her body and reburied it very quickly, within a day, I believe. Thank you for posting this, I didn't know he had been cremated and it is interesting the obit cleary states he died in suspicious circumstances.

 

[RexburgSleuth]

The Daily Mail had an article saying they first did a podcast together in Dec 2017.
From the timeline I have:

Dec 2017 – Lori and Chad made their first appearance together on a podcast (Daily Mail)

I can't recall if we have any other verification of that claim and Daily Mail can sometimes get things wrong... I'll see if I can find the article I pulled that factoid from.

I checked all the podcast listings for the Voldemort podcast group in an effort to see when they could have met through that avenue.
Preparing A People Podcast Network | Himalaya

Per DailyMail, yes, that's incorrect. There is no podcast listed in December 2017 that features Chad or Lori, and definitely not together.

I see near the bottom (earliest podcast on the list Episode 001 on July 12, 2017 of the titular podcasts) the owners and co-host CD is introduced. Chad is always included in the episodes as a Co-Host or with his full name.

Every time hosts or speakers that are part of the podcast are mentioned in the synopsis, they are by first name except their introductory podcast. LV is introduced as Lori Vallow for the first "Time to Warrior Up Podcast - Introduction" podcast on Dec 4, 2018. All later times she is mentioned as Lori.

I think it is likely that the two met at some point before December 2018 and through interactions with the podcast group. There is a possibility that they met in person when Chad was in Mesa, AZ on July 13, 2018 for a conference (I've shared this info earlier: ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #18). He was also in Mesa for the November 2018 Event so there's a possibility that was when they met. Here he is in the audience in white shirt and tie.

(source: himalaya.com url above).

Do I know exactly when he and Lori met? No. But it was definitely before Tammy died in October 2019, Chad said as much to the landlord in November 7 conversation in Kauai. It's possible to have been before July 2018. It's possible to have been at the "Zions Camp" in 2017 (The podcasts about the camp started in August, camp shortly before). There were reports from sundry sources that Chad and Tammy were at a camp in July 2017 (before Aug 21, 2017 eclipse) and Lori was there.

Your awesome timeline confirms that:
"June 2017 – Family members say Lori and Chad first met sometime around June 2017 (Daily Mail).

Summer of 2017 – Chad meets author and podcaster, MG, for the first time after he speaks at a campout in Northern Utah. MG invites him to speak in her hometown of Mesa, Arizona (Chad's Forward for MG's book)."

If MG invited him to the speaking event in Mesa, my post linked above shows the connection there in July 13, 2018. I'm not sure about previous dates. We know that Lori became involved with the podcasting group with MG and JasonM.

 

[squareandrabbet]

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Wow.

Wowowowow.

So, MBP's defense, as it is, is basically going to be to throw Alex under the bus.

Will I be surprised if his wife-now-widow of 2 weeks' duration ZP, already called out as weird and sketchy by those interviewed on Dateline NBC, already holding MBP's hand; shows up to say that AC acted alone in shooting at Brandon? No I will not.

I'll be furious at lil' miss butter wouldn't melt in her mouth blondie (catch the smirk on her face at the end of the defense table); I won't be surprised.

 

[Trask]

Like the house was rented to become a killing zone with the setup. The whole CV/AC interaction sounded like a setup to me, but I'm cynical as H*ll in my old age these days

I kinda feel the same way about Alex's rental in Rexburg.

 

[janx]

Do you mean AC?

Yes, I'm sorry. AC's answers.

 

[tresir2012]

In Melani's case, it appears to be purposeful that LE had the FBI question her. Four hours of questioning over three days sounds as if there were a lot of follow-up questions as they checked out certain aspects of her story. Leaves me with the feeling that they were setting the trap for her to waltz into federal charges. MOO

It makes sense for the FBI to interview her but she did not move to Rexburg until after the last sighting of the kids so I am not sure if she will have any evidence about when she last saw them or where they are. I cannot believe she wouldn't ask Lori where her kids where while she was her neighbour though. You would be curious surely, She was with Alex in American fork trespassing at one point.

 

[LDS social scientist]

And the logic I laid out for why an autopsy shouldn't be an issue in Mormon beliefs, at least IMO, would hold up for cremation as well, but your'e right, there was a time when that definitely wasn't considered okay and I suspect that still lingers. So I was thinking maybe that feeling used to be there for autopsies too, but I'm not young and when I was plugged in to current thinking they were an issue that I remember whereas back in that day cremation definitely was.

MOO

It's possible that DoctorAttorney was right in her claim that Mormons distrusted autopsies sometime in the past. And, MOO, the logic both you and her seem to point to -- that any distrust of cremation may also carry over to autopsies as both involving some kind of mutilation of the body -- is plausible. I just haven't been able to find evidence of this being the actual case.

My sense, and I suspect other LDS members may have a better view than I do on this, is that the LDS preference for burying over cremation derives from a general American traditional cultural disposition. As people started to ask questions later on, then some leaders or others may have argued that burying is somehow better for the body during the Resurrection than cremation. Then that kind of took on a notion that perhaps God prefers burial.

But as you argue, this ultimately doesn't make a lot of sense. Mormons believe that people whose bodies were blown up in war or lost at sea, for example, are in no worse of a position at the Resurrection than those who are buried. There's certainly nothing scriptural related to this. And the church indeed today accommodates cremation based on family desires.

 

[Underneath the Sky]

Anyone can add a grave/burial info on find A grave.... I wouldn't put too much weight on what you see there stating he was cremated (yet)... If you look at the bottom it states they got the information from Wikipedia...the SOURCE of who created it is also someone who seemingly adds random people on there.... MOO of course.

Yeah, and management of the memorial page was transferred to a user other than the one who originally posted it, suggesting (perhaps) that the person maintaining it now is a family member. I haven't been able to find a real obituary or anything definitively confirming he was actually cremated.