Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #22

[Snoods]

... That's a really disgusting and insensitive comparison in relation to this case, and maybe you didn't mean that to be so hurtful, but it is not cool.

I'm going to leave for a bit.

Why is the comparison to Jim Jones so disgusting and insensitive in relation to this case, in your opinion?

You got a bunch of blonde broads who are members of a mysterious cult luring very dumb men into odd sex and murder games that may or may not lead to dead kids at any moment.

All we need is the bees....

RSBM BBM “ Let him who is without sin among you be the first to cast a stone at her.”

 

[BeckyF]

... That's a really disgusting and insensitive comparison in relation to this case, and maybe you didn't mean that to be so hurtful, but it is not cool.

I'm going to leave for a bit.

And who am I trying to hurt exactly? I know he was a leader of a cult and had strange beliefs and these 2 have odd religious beliefs IMO and it has been stated they think the end of the world is coming in a few months. I meant nothing else. Don't get all bent out of shape and respond with your disgusting comment.

With all due respect, what was wrong with what she said that you took offense to it? I’m not familiar with Jim Jones.

I meant to hurt no one involved in this case with my comment. These 2 seem to have some radical beliefs. End of story. There is nothing else to discuss.

 

[mrjitty]

I agree it's fascinating. But give me a break. She was almost in an adjoining room! She knows what happened. By our timeline the kids disappeared before Melani moved. She had to have asked Aunty Lori where the kids were when she moved in next door. She is guilty as he11!

That's what I am talking about. She appears to be at least a direct witness to key events, and possibly linked to an attempted murder.

So in her shoes, to be cooperating with the FBI seems highly dangerous - leading me to speculate as to why

1. Was she just unsophisticated, the FBI rolled in, turned up the pressure and turned her over?

2. Was cooperation carefully negotiated via counsel in return for some form of immunity?

3. Or is this is a strategy from counsel because Melani is innocent and wants avoid getting arrested?

Point 3 is reasonably common in other common law jurisdictions but I am not sure if defence lawyers recommend this in the US

 

[Alohaj]

Oh, I hadn't considered that... Do we think Alex had connections to get fake ID's made?

I've been assuming she did it through some legal loophole. A while back I asked if anyone knew where Lori and Joseph Ryan got married. Their 2001 wedding photo looks like Hawaii to me. People dismissed it as not too important, but I think it's possible she lived in Hawaii at one point while married to Joseph Ryan (or at least while she still had the Ryan surname). Could she have kept renewing a "Lori Ryan" Hawaii license from around 2001 or 2006 before she married Charles?

A few years ago Hawaii (maybe it was only Maui? ) really cracked down on the documentation they required to issue you a drivers license, even for a renewal and even if you had one of your entire adult life. They wanted official documents, and a number of them and it caught may people by surprise because for many many years they didn’t have to show anything to do a renewal. It may have been when Hawaii got theyre enhanced drivers license system? Or maybe they had discovered a lot of fraud in their licensing system? I’m not sure the reason but I know many of us were talking about that and what a pain it was to go and get original birth certificates, Social Security cards, etc. Posting that because I would be a bit surprised if it was easy for her to get Hawaii license but like I said maybe it was just a Maui thing although the licensing should be statewide

 

[KonaHonu]

I think Nate will be among the first to know as soon as Lori is put on a plane for Idaho.

I'm sure he will be. I signed up to be alerted when Lori's status changes at the Kauai CCC so hopefully I'll be able to post an update here quickly.

 

[Anonymous91]

ok that answers one question i had but now i has a new one-- so he's an unsuccessful hack writer for a long time: Who or What lifted him out of obscurity and into a Following, and When, and Why?

sorry, i guess thats more like 4 questions

From what I know he focuses on the sub-niche of Near Death Experiences (NDE).
So you are going to have two main crowds. Those interested in NDE (according to google trends the popularity goes up and down like a yo-yo). The other crowd would be fringe LDS for the most part.

Recently there has been several small fringe LDS people splintering off, after the leaders have been excommunicated. Most recently those that have been following Denver Snuffer and Julie Rowe come to mind. I am sure there may be others, I just hear about it.

In addition, there has been a few online groups that are popping up representing these fringe groups, and their beliefs. CD was a member of at least two of these groups that I've heard about. These groups also do a lot of speaking events around the Utah, Idaho area as well.

So, between all of the books he has put out, speaking events, and online forums he has been building up a following. No idea how big or small that group is though. It is a very small niche group. Unfortunately, I believe that this is a group is also more susceptible to being radicalized by cult beliefs.

There are some members that follow what they are being told, without questioning it. These are the ones I worry about. The church has a Primary song (young children sing), that is called "Follow The Prophet", which on the surface is fine.

However, there are those that practice "blind faith". They don't develop their own faith, they don't study it, they don't ponder it, they just blindly follow it. Our prophets warn against blind faith, and encourage people to study, ponder and pray and develop their own faith.

In fact, most recently there is a very hotly debated topic that people are attempting to interpret what the prophet said and put words in his mouth. Then there's people like me that point out what Christ has to say about the matter. There are those (unfortunately), that think the Prophet trumps Christ. The reality is that our Church is founded on Christ, and he trumps all of us wretched sinners.

I assume this happens in every religion, but these are the type of people that can be in danger of falling into a cult, and becoming brainwashed with very dangerous ideologies.

MOO

 

[DropthePuck]

Forgive me for my ignorance but I still don’t understand why a reference to him was hurtful to doctor attorney.

That makes two of us. I don't understand the overreaction at all.

 

[KonaHonu]

On completely unrelated news but relevant to what I have been saying about lawlessness in Hawaii.

Today a Kauai County councilman was arrested for heading up a big drug traffcking ring.

Authorities allege Kauai councilman headed up large drug trafficking ring

 

[KonaHonu]

A few years ago Hawaii (maybe it was only Maui? ) really cracked down on the documentation they required to issue you a drivers license, even for a renewal and even if you had one of your entire adult life. They wanted official documents, and a number of them and it caught may people by surprise because for many many years they didn’t have to show anything to do a renewal. It may have been when Hawaii got theyre enhanced drivers license system? Or maybe they had discovered a lot of fraud in their licensing system? I’m not sure the reason but I know many of us were talking about that and what a pain it was to go and get original birth certificates, Social Security cards, etc. Posting that because I would be a bit surprised if it was easy for her to get Hawaii license but like I said maybe it was just a Maui thing although the licensing should be statewide

No, it was statewide and related to federal requirements.

 

[Snoods]

I'm sure he will be. I signed up to be alerted when Lori's status changes at the Kauai CCC so hopefully I'll be able to post an update here quickly.

Please do! I depend on y’all for my evening updates, thank you. Dang but this thread moves quickly, it’s a task keeping up.

 

[Anonymous91]

With all due respect, what was wrong with what she said that you took offense to it? I’m not familiar with Jim Jones.

I know next to nothing about Jim Jones, other than it was a cult that brainwashed a bunch of people that drank poisoned Flavor-Aid. From what I understand the Adults had the kids drink it first, then they drank it. Sad but true.

I know nothing about what he and his followers were taught, and no desire to find out.

However, most of us has heard the phrase: "Don't drink the Kool-Aid", this is referencing this event.

I can't speak for anyone else, but certain things can trigger me, and really get under my skin. What one person takes offense to is completely mundane to someone else. Especially if it has to do with something that hits close to home.

For me, that is Domestic Violence, especially when it's not being taken seriously (unfortunately when men are the victims, this is often the case).

I do try to keep in mind, that my personal experience makes me ultra aware of the situation, whereas others may be absolutely clueless about it. I do my best to give other people the benefit of the doubt, but sometimes I just have to speak my mind.

MOO

 

[KonaHonu]

That's what I am talking about. She appears to be at least a direct witness to key events, and possibly linked to an attempted murder.

So in her shoes, to be cooperating with the FBI seems highly dangerous - leading me to speculate as to why

1. Was she just unsophisticated, the FBI rolled in, turned up the pressure and turned her over?

2. Was cooperation carefully negotiated via counsel in return for some form of immunity?

3. Or is this is a strategy from counsel because Melani is innocent and wants avoid getting arrested?

Point 3 is reasonably common in other common law jurisdictions but I am not sure if defence lawyers recommend this in the US

I'm not sure I would advance my idea that BB (her ex) is hiding all the kids even to a theory at this point because there is no evidence. But if she also thinks he has them in hiding that would explain her cooperation.

 

[Alohaj]

And this just always makes me get bogged down---> Chad never really had money, Lori DOES appear to have to be pinching pennies. Why oh Why did they go for such a high lifestyle in Kauai?? They found out before going to Kauai that they weren't getting Charles' money. Pretty sure they knew that they were only getting the 400+K off Tammy's death. Still makes one think there is big money in the background?? That was always my suspicion in the beginning, and though have veered off that thought, it does come back to haunt my mind.

And this just always makes me get bogged down---> Chad never really had money, Lori DOES appear to have to be pinching pennies. Why oh Why did they go for such a high lifestyle in Kauai?? They found out before going to Kauai that they weren't getting Charles' money. Pretty sure they knew that they were only getting the 400+K off Tammy's death. Still makes one think there is big money in the background?? That was always my suspicion in the beginning, and though have veered off that thought, it does come back to haunt my mind.

That’s true however the way I see it is that LV has always been successful in finding people to take care of her financially i.e. men, and when someone has that mindset they just spend what they have because since they’ve always found a source of money, they assume they always will be able to do so. I would think that especially with someone like her that is manipulative and narcissistic.... and She probably also feels that she “deserves” to live the high life style, which is much easier to do when you don’t have kids isn’t it ? She seems to have used most everyone in her life, so CD is just a means to an end, $$. She may have known him and admired him, but when the insurance money didn’t materialize as she had planned, she went with another option. He may be strong-willed, but someone with her personality disorder in my opinion would find any way to manipulate. Not to be rude, but he’s an OK looking guy but not a stunner, and many would think she is ... and I could see a man being very flattered by her “attentions”. Also, With her it doesn’t seem like a marriage is forever, and who knows if he already has life insurance policy or will “conveniently“ be getting one in the future. It looks apparent that she has gotten away with eliminating a lot of people in her life to her advantage. What’s one more? And I’m thinking she probably has a sense that she can get away with anything, narcissistic people do think that.
JMO

 

[Anonymous91]

I don't have any inside information to contact the FBI about. BB has stated publicly for months that he has his kids in hiding. I'm just speculating that maybe he included JJ and Tylee for their own safety based on what he knows about the crazy cult.

Sorry, I didn't mean for you to contact the FBI. I meant for BB, it would be in his best interest to contact the FBI. That is why I doubt he has the missing kids. Of course, you may be right. This case just keeps getting stranger every day. JMO

 

[yawningreyhound]

how pretty were lori's toilet paper ringlets in court today??
she really went all out with what she's got.

moo

Ok. What is a toilet paper ringlet? I see the results but what's the process? I could go look it up but this is more fun.

I thought she was going dreaded..what i assume are her root-colored extensions already looked headed to dreaded to me. Oh boy i am full of the snark today.

 

[Snoods]

Sorry, I didn't mean for you to contact the FBI. I meant for BB, it would be in his best interest to contact the FBI. That is why I doubt he has the missing kids. Of course, you may be right. This case just keeps getting stranger every day. JMO

It’s crazy. And just when you think you reached the bottom of their craziness, you find their crazy underground garage.

 

[mrjitty]

In a prior thread Angleterre said:


in response to a post I made about not talking to police.

I apologize if I offended you. I was only referring to the US. I still maintain that in the US there really is little or no benefit to speaking to the police. If you answer written questions you have a record of exactly what was said. I can't edit my post because it is in a prior thread so I will clarify here.

I understand it is the job of the police to investigate crimes and gather evidence. I don't fault police for doing their job at all. But in the US it is not their job to exonerate people. That is the role of a defense attorney. Even the Miranda warning says "Anything you say can and will be used against you..." (BBM) It doesn't say that anything you say will be used to establish the facts. So why would anyone see any benefit in providing evidence to be used against themselves.

I realize that in other countries the role of the police might be slightly different in the sense their role may focus more on establishing the facts rather than beginning the prosecution and that there might be times in other countries where not speaking or failing to provide defense information early on can be used against a person. But in the US silence can't be used against you.

MOO

The handling of police statements in other common law countries is not nearly as different to the US as you might think

For instance in NZ we also have the Miranda warning. Typically only sworn statements in a police interview will be admissible. The right to silence at trial is still pretty much absolute. In her role as a detective in the UK @Angleterre can tell you all about that stuff.

One big difference is the UK law reform which enables the Judge to make adverse comment at trial, where the accused has failed to disclose certain matters pre-trial that are then relied upon at trial. This is a specific but limited innovation, focussed on preventing accused cooking up alibis or other facts at trial which reasonably ought to have been disclosed so that police could have investigated at the time

As to why you might cooperate, there are of course valid reasons both in the US and in places like NZ

For instance I cooperated with police in a forensic fraud case where I was one of the central witnesses, but unaware of the fraud. It made sense for me to cooperate to clear any suspicion from myself and i had a ton of evidence for that purpose

But especially, my detailed cooperation and sworn statement could of course assist me at my own trial (heaven forbid!) because I would then be able to point to a consistent version from the outset. So in many respects if you are able to give an honest and comprehensive statement pre-trial, it can be a great piece of evidence for you later. In reality what was likely to happen is that I would have been compelled to appear as a prosecution witness at trial in any event and of course all my records would have been seized had i not voluntarily surrendered them.

The fear LE can "pick holes" in your version is more imagined that real IMO, so long as the core is strong.

 

[Alohaj]

It’s horrible that she sold them and didn’t give them to the kids. Some watches can gain value, not all sell for small amounts. My dad has a lot of watches and some of them are worth more now than what he paid for them, some a similar figure and some less. It really depends on if CV was a collector and knew what he was looking for or just had some nice timepieces that he enjoyed. If they were worn, well used or kept in their cases and unused also plays a part. Whichever way though and whatever their worth it stinks because CVs kids deserved them at the very least. It shows where her priorities lie. MOO

I can relate to the sons of wanting the watches and here’s why. Since I was a little girl, being the only daughter my mom and I would always look over her jewelry and admire it together and over the years she has given me a number of pieces ... well a few yes ago my brother convinced her to buy a home that he would take care of her in for the rest of her life, and convinced her to put it in his name. He then became verbally abusive to her, she moved out, and then he sold it and absconded with the money. That was bad enough, but I then found out that during the time frame when they were lovey-dovey living together, he got her to pawn most of her jewelry including her wedding ring and now most of her jewelry is also gone. For me it wasn’t the money, it was the sentimental value. My mom had always told me that since I was the only girl she wanted to pass thr Jewelry on to me. So I get it, even if those watches didn’t have much monetary value they perhaps had a lot of sentimental value to the sons, if they admired them together and always saw what new watches dad got, etc.

 

[Whaddayano]

This is fascinating.

I wonder if she has a cooperation deal with the FBI? I mean given her situation, any voluntary cooperation would need to be handled very carefully.

how commonly does the fbi get involved with missing minors cases? granted, this one is extremely high profile

 

[Alohaj]

It’s horrible that she sold them and didn’t give them to the kids. Some watches can gain value, not all sell for small amounts. My dad has a lot of watches and some of them are worth more now than what he paid for them, some a similar figure and some less. It really depends on if CV was a collector and knew what he was looking for or just had some nice timepieces that he enjoyed. If they were worn, well used or kept in their cases and unused also plays a part. Whichever way though and whatever their worth it stinks because CVs kids deserved them at the very least. It shows where her priorities lie. MOO

I can relate to the sons of wanting the watches and here’s why. Since I was a little girl, being the only daughter my mom and I would always look over her jewelry and admire it together and over the years she has given me a number of pieces ... well a few yes ago my brother convinced her to buy a home that he would take care of her in for the rest of her life, and convinced her to put it in his name. He then became verbally abusive to her, she moved out, and then he sold it and absconded with the money. That was bad enough, but I then found out that during the time frame when they were lovey-dovey living together, he got her to pawn most of her jewelry including her wedding ring and now most of her jewelry is also gone. For me it wasn’t the money, it was the sentimental value. My mom had always told me that since I was the only girl she wanted to pass thr Jewelry on to me. So I get it, even if those watches didn’t have much monetary value they perhaps had a lot of sentimental value to the sons,

It looks to me like someone were to play the lottery but plan their lifestyle as though they had already won. Kauai's about the farthest place from Idaho in terms of lifestyle and location with a remote, small town feel with 50,000 on the island. We know no one bothered them until Nate showed up. It's obvious they planned to not talk. If they plan to come back to Idaho, produce the kids or blame it all on Alex, and plan to walk free. Maybe Chad's banking on a story he's writing about this, the defamation of character suits they'll win, future subscriptions to the secret groups, etc.”

Book and movie rights? Big money in that