Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #22

[Trask]

The shouting on the street took place “around a year ago” according to this Jan 2020 article: Mom of missing Idaho kids screamed at her killer brother that he brought disgrace on their family' | Daily Mail Online

Lori left J.J. with Charles around Feb of 2019. Since the daily mail article only gave an approximate timeframe for the fight in the street, it seems hard to pin down the timing for sure. However, as is reported in the timeline:

Approx. Jan 2019? – Lori is staying with her brother Alex. Lori and AC are seen arguing loudly in the street outside of AC’s San Tan Valley, AZ home. A neighbor says he thought Lori and AC were married the way they were arguing. “She was screaming at him accusing him of bringing disgrace on their family”.

Since she was “staying with her brother” at the time of the fight, it seems unlikely this fight took place before she abandoned CV and J.J. But whether it happened before she went to HI or after she got back seems impossible to say definitively without more information. If one were to speculate and connect the argument to CVs murder or failure thereof, that still wouldn’t clear up the timeframe since the anger could have been the failure to complete the plan (which would indicate it took place after her return from HI) or the anger could have been at his failure to want to complete the plan (before HI). Whatever it was, it seems to have made her really hopping mad though. I haven’t heard any indication from other family members that would indicate this as normal behavior for her. Speculation then would favor this fight as being after HI. MOO

She probably found his

 

[BigAl16]

She probably found his

LOL. I think you might be onto something.

MOO

 

[IronOrchid]

But seriously, this case does trigger me a bit. Most people ask, " Are the kids alive?" I say, " Why weren't the kids in counseling beforehand?"

At this point it's a question of what's worse, two dead kids or a woman who hid two alive kids but completely destroyed their world forever. The alive kids are better but there is no getting rid of the trauma and the baggage you carry.

 

[indicolite22]

Melani's lawyer said after her court appearance (seen in Justin Lum's video) that the media should not be taking Charles' divorce statements that Lori claimed she was a god as fact. It looks like they are not only defending Melani, but Lori as well.

 

[PinkPrincessPoop]

Melani's lawyer said after her court appearance (seen in Justin Lum's video) that the media should not be taking Charles' divorce statements that Lori claimed she was a god as fact. It looks like they are not only defending Melani, but Lori as well.

How can Melani say that? She was not part of their private conversations. So for me, the relevance of Melani's opinion is next to nothing!

 

[ThinkoutLoud]

When asked , "Are the kids okay?". Chad actually said YES!

Well... technically, she said, “Are your kids ok?” BBM. I think he was referring to his children, not the missing children. But hopefully he was referring to ALL the children.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

Warning: Long post speculative post ahead.

There seems to be a lot of info pointing to them having met earlier than 2018. Or, at the very least, they had ample opportunities to have met earlier.

From the timeline:

Approx 2016 or 2017 – Lori and Chad may have met for the first time as early as 2016 or 2017. Lori’s friend says in a Dec 2019 interview that Lori first became “obsessed” with Chad’s books about 4 years ago. JJ’s grandmother, KW says in a 30 Jan 2020 presser that she believes Lori & Chad may have met in 2016 or 2017. (Friend interview, Fox7 Austin, & KW’s Presser video).

[...]

June 2017 – Family members say Lori and Chad first met sometime around June 2017 (Daily Mail).

Summer of 2017 – Chad meets author and podcaster, Melanie Gibb (MG), for the first time after he speaks at a campout in Northern Utah. MG invites him to speak in her hometown of Mesa, Arizona (Chad's Forward for MG's book).

[...]

Dec 2017 – Lori and Chad made their first appearance together on a podcast (Daily Mail)

[...]

June 2018 – Chad finishes writing his “Times of Turmoil” book series and "felt prompted" to speak about the book in AZ in July. He contacts author Melanie Gibb and MG arranges a joint speaking event with Chad and another speaker (Chad’s blog).

[...]

27 June 2018 – Chad announces a book signing on his blog for his book “Reclaiming Liberty”, the last book in his “Times of Turmoil” series.

30 June 2018 – Chad holds a book signing in Sugar City, ID (Chad’s blog It’s finally here! | cdaybell.com ).

13 July 2018 – Chad speaks at an event in Mesa, AZ with another author and he has a book signing after; This event was arranged by Chad’s author friend, Melanie Gibb (Websleuths Verified Insider).

[...]
Sept 2018 - Chad starts speaking on a podcast called "Glimpses Through the Veil" (Podcast website & Event Flyers).

15 Sept 2018 - Chad speaks at a prepper event in Brigham City, Utah (Event Flyers).

26-27 Oct 2018 - Chad speaks at a prepper event in St George, Utah (Event Flyers).

16-17 Nov 2018 Chad speaks at a prepper event in Mesa, AZ (Event Flyers).

Late 2018 – Lori and Chad met at a “prepper event” in AZ where Chad gave a talk. (Dateline).

[...]

5 Dec 2018 – Lori & Chad, along with others, do a podcast together titled “Time to Warrior Up” with the topic mostly being about the end of the world (East Idaho News, HLN True Crime).

Jan 2019 – Chad is a guest interview on “Time To Warrior Up” podcast with Lori co-hosting the podcast along with hosts JM & MG (podcast website).

Jan 2019 (Approx) - Lori emails Chad a video of herself dancing; Charles found the video because Lori was not technologically savvy and did not delete the email from the “sent” folder. This lead CV to believe Lori was having an affair with Chad (According to CV’s sister KW, in Jan 30, 2020 Presser).

----

If it was just one source saying they could have met before 2018 then I could dismiss it. But we seem to have multiple sources and multiple opportunities where Chad and Lori could have met and planned to find a way to meet again. What made Chad suddenly "feel prompted" to speak in Mesa, AZ a year after meeting Lori's friend Melanie Gibb? I don't believe that was a prompting from God he was getting. Chad seems to have a pattern of using his "promptings" in order to manipulate or get something he wants. Theoretically, what if Chad met Lori at the same time he met MG in the summer/June of 2017? Maybe they kept in touch and sent some emails back and forth. Lori was a big fan of Chad's books and maybe she believed Chad to be wealthy and powerful in this group they were both involved with.

Theoretically, after a year of flattering emails and possibly other forms of communication from her, maybe Chad just had to find a way to travel to Mesa to see Lori again? So he finishes his book and says he has "been prompted" to speak on it in Mesa, AZ. Sounds perfectly innocent to anyone who doesn't know about Lori. But it's mighty suspicious if there happens to be an email or texting trail between them, as I'm theorizing. By Jan 2019 Lori is sending Chad inappropriate videos of herself dancing. It's hard for me to buy that an affair jumped to "dancing video email" level only a month or 2 after they met for the first time. Most affairs like we are discussing don't happen overnight. They start with little things and snowball.

I think around 2017 both Lori and Chad were dissatisfied with their life partners/life in general and both were ripe for an affair to happen. Maybe Chad was unhappy because he made Tammy move to Rexburg, which he thought would bring them prosperity, only to find they still struggled financially and Tammy isn't as happy as she was living in Utah near her parents. Chad has to work at a printing place to make ends meet, when he would rather be writing books. Maybe Lori was unhappy by 2017 because Charles made her leave her island paradise of Kauai. The Juice business failed and Charles likely tightened the budget and told Lori they have to move back to AZ or TX. I'm speculating that Lori started looking for a new richer man who could take her back to her paradise as soon as she moved back to the mainland.

One thing I'm really interested in is when did this group that Chad and Lori are a part of start taking other's spouses to the temple and praying about being with each other... Was that an idea that originated with Lori and Chad? Or did Lori and Chad glom onto the group because of this idea? Did they think many in the group would accept them if they suddenly declared they had revelation saying they were supposed to leave their long time spouses to be with each other? And I also wonder if at some point Lori and Chad realized that without their respective spouses (Charles and Tammy) they had no source of income and could become just as poor as Tammy and Chad had been when times were lean and a bankruptcy happened. At that point is when I think a plan was hatched which could land these 2 lovebirds in prison for the rest of their lives.

MOO.

I’m agreeing that they met earlier. It only makes sense. To further add to the speculation of summer 2017 look at the forward Chad wrote for MG’s book.

It says: BBM

From the moment I first met Melanie Gibb in the summer of 2017, I knew there was a burning passion within her to help others understand who they are, and that Jesus Christ truly loves them. I had just given an evening presentation to around 200 people at a campout in northern Utah when Melanie came up to me at the podium and started talking like we were old friends. I distinctly remember that she spoke energetically and with that charming Southern accent. She told me a bit about herself and that she loved to testify of Christ. Melanie told me if I ever got the chance, I should speak in her hometown of Mesa, Arizona. I told her I would like to do that someday, and she gave me a farewell hug. Then she and her friends walked off into the darkness, and I loaded up my truck for a long drive home to Idaho that night.

[.....]
Chad Daybell February 2019 Gibb.

Feel The Fire – by Melanie Gibb

This was written in February 2019, when we know he was deep into the throws of “communication” with LV. I’m going to bet he wrote the “friends” part in the forward because it had an impact to him. Maybe it was the first time he met LV?

 

[Snoods]

I wasn't rude but explained I was no dude. (I'm a poet but didnt know it). You don't need the bold BTW and I know about TOS and scrolling and rolling, but thanks anyway.

It’s all good. FYI I didn’t bold, I just copy and pasted. It was already bold.

 

[findher8]

Were some of the dates that Chad was possibly in the storage unit also the dates he conveniently was "prompted" to send his wife of 30 years to visit her parents? (It gave him time with concubine Lori while making him think he looked prophetic by sending his wife for what would be a farewell visit to her parents....win/win in his mind)

 

[Lyrarya]

Hawaii Resident Talks About Thrift Store Encounter With Chad Daybell

Olson said after the encounter she reached out to Kauai detectives to inform them about the exchange.

“They just wanted to know if there were children’s clothing donated or anything like that. I informed them that I didn’t actually work there and I didn’t see it,” Olson said.

Apparently the people working at the thrift store didn't recognize Chad and do not know what he donated as the items were mixed with other stuff.

I wonder if he or Lori donated clothes or anything back in Rexburg. That storage unit was pretty sparse.

 

[Anonymous91]

Dang, I just learned a new word 'jabroni'. Very good!

So did I, never heard this word before.

This does remind me of another seldomly used word to describe Lori, that would be flibbertigibbet. I am sure her friend from Hawaii could have used that word to describe her, why she was talking a mile a minute about all of the end of time foolishness. MOO

Side Note: I learned that word when I was at a call center, we were attempting to come up with a farce on the military alphabet. Couldn't find one that fit for the letter "f" so used the silliest word we could find.

"A" as in "aisle"
"B" as in "bdellium"
"C" as in " czar
Etc, etc.

 

[Gardener1850]

I’m agreeing that they met earlier. It only makes sense. To further add to the speculation of summer 2017 look at the forward Chad wrote for MG’s book.

It says: BBM

From the moment I first met Melanie Gibb in the summer of 2017, I knew there was a burning passion within her to help others understand who they are, and that Jesus Christ truly loves them. I had just given an evening presentation to around 200 people at a campout in northern Utah when Melanie came up to me at the podium and started talking like we were old friends. I distinctly remember that she spoke energetically and with that charming Southern accent. She told me a bit about herself and that she loved to testify of Christ. Melanie told me if I ever got the chance, I should speak in her hometown of Mesa, Arizona. I told her I would like to do that someday, and she gave me a farewell hug. Then she and her friends walked off into the darkness, and I loaded up my truck for a long drive home to Idaho that night.

[.....]
Chad Daybell February 2019 Gibb.

Feel The Fire – by Melanie Gibb

This was written in February 2019, when we know he was deep into the throws of “communication” with LV. I’m going to bet he wrote the “friends” part in the forward because it had an impact to him. Maybe it was the first time he met LV?

Exactly! I also have to wonder what MG knows about Lori and Chad's relationship. It sounds like their "cult" doesn't see anything wrong with a man and a woman, who are not married to each other but married to other people, going off to "pray" together. So maybe MG facilitated some private meetings between Lori and Chad and saw nothing amiss with that? Perhaps the cult knew that kind of behavior wouldn't be tolerated by most other Mormons, so maybe MG was ok with covering for Lori and Chad seeing each other during conferences. If I'm right on this theory, then it explains why both Lori and Chad made separate phone calls to MG and asked her to lie and say she had JJ. If MG had covered for them in the past, why wouldn't they expect her to do it again for this? One tiny problem- MG drew the line at lying to police officers looking for a missing special needs child. As much as we have debated about if the children could be hidden away in a bunker somewhere, I really don't think hiding kids is part of their cult. If it is, then appears that nobody filled MG in on that belief before asking her to lie. MOO.

 

[Snoods]

Apologies if this has been discussed ad nauseam, but do we know the amount of Chad’s life insurance policy? Surely Chad’s life insurance would have been at least triple what Tammy’s was, since he was the primary breadwinner of the family. $430,000.00 seems like an excessive amount for her. They must have paid about $100.00 a month for Tammy’s policy alone. How long did she have the policy?

 

[KonaHonu]

I will point this out, since this is relevant.

In the LDS community, is right up there with Adultery, and fornication.
If you go on an LDS forum, and start reading what some of the people write (particularly females - no offense), it is pure hatred and complete intolerance.

To the outside world, usage is not a big deal, to the LDS community it is equivalent to having leprosy in biblical times. JMO

So when Melani states that this is “dark and extreme ” this may just be mainstream for all I know. What I wanted to point out is how it is viewed in the LDS community to help others see it in the proper perspective. MOO

Asking a serious question...how would stack up against murder? If is on a level with adultery and adultery is on a level with murder and cussing on the Sabbath (10 commandments). Should we take Melani's mind state to be different than we would if she were not LDS?

 

[Anonymous91]

And yet Utah has the highest percentage of people who access online of every state. Google it and virtually every source puts Utah at the top of the list. So you have this dictonomy of having strong desires with no acceptable outlet and a culture that shames you for having those feelings.

None of that really pertains to your point other than maybe reinforcing it. But your comment got me thinking that the view of sex and sexuality in the Mormon culture is very different than what others might view as normal in other places, at least in modern times, not just the comments above. This got me wondering if this might influence our players in this drama. Dictates against sex outside of marriage, for example, might be the reason for some of these quickie marriages, whether the person was not recently married (AC and his new bride) or recently divorced and presumably getting attached to someone more acceptable to the group (whatever the group is and whatever beliefs they have) like MB and IP.

That is very true. The other dynamic I realized is that when the couple is sealed.

For the most part, in modern society if your marriage is not working out, or going south you get a divorce. End of story, life moves on.

Being in LDS it becomes a lot different. I grew up with the belief system, that you marry and divorce was not an option.

If you've been sealed though, short of your spouse cheating (apparently usage is also considered cheating) on you, it is not well favored.

You are strongly encouraged to work out your differences, and this is reinforced using religion to back this up. Getting a civil divorce is the same as anyone else, but getting the sealing cancelled is very difficult from what I understand.

Depending on who divorces whom(and why), you may find yourself being a social pariah amongst your peers.

I went through a divorce myself, and noticed it immediately. No one really brings it up (per say). You just start noticing things: People start distancing themselves from you, avoid eye contact, make up excuses that they have to leave (30 seconds into the conversation), etc.

This may explain some of the dynamics in this case, or it may just mean nothing. MOO

 

[KonaHonu]

Apologies if this has been discussed ad nauseam, but do we know the amount of Chad’s life insurance policy? Surely Chad’s life insurance would have been at least triple what Tammy’s was, since he was the primary breadwinner of the family. $430,000.00 seems like an excessive amount for her. They must have paid about $100.00 a month for Tammy’s policy alone. How long did she have the policy?

Actually Tammy was the breadwinner most likely. She had a regular ob and ran the publishing company.

 

[Gardener1850]

The woman who saw him at the thrift store called Kauai police:

Olson said she didn’t get a good glimpse of the items donated, but snapped a picture of Daybell’s vehicle.

“He did have more donations than he could carry in his hands, because I did watch him back up his SUV around the back of the building and unload whatever he was donating,” Olson said.

The vehicle was different than the black Ford Explorer rental car that was searched by detectives in January.

Olson said after the encounter she reached out to Kauai detectives to inform them about the exchange.

“They just wanted to know if there were children’s clothing donated or anything like that. I informed them that I didn’t actually work there and I didn’t see it,” Olson said.

Olson said her biggest concern was for the missing children.

“The most gutsy question that I dared ask was, ‘Couldn’t Lori just get out of jail if she simply told where the kids were at,’ and he just said, ‘It’s more complicated than that. It’s not that easy,” Olson said.

Thrift store managers said their volunteers didn’t recognize Daybell while he was dropping of the donations, and don’t know what he donated because the items were mixed in with other items.

Hawaii Resident Talks About Thrift Store Encounter With Chad Daybell

BBM. I wonder if the thrift store has cameras? Hopefully detectives paid them a visit to see if any evidence was discarded.

MOO.

 

[Anonymous91]

Thanks for saying this. You did it more tactfully than I might have.

MOO

Just in case anyone missed this I did clarify the miscommunication, in another thread. I think I will attach it to the original thread to clear up any confusion though.

Never Mind I can no longer edit that post. I'll just post it here for clarification:
"
When I said "absolute approach to atheism", I was inferring to the idea that you take it to the absolute extreme. So for example, there is right wing politics and left wing politics, but then there are extreme views on both sides. That was what I was trying to infer.

I was also suggesting that atheism can be taken to such an extreme, however, not implying that anyone would do so.

In this case, we can all agree that the LDS religious beliefs have been radicalized, twisted, and contorted and taken to an extreme ideology, or lack of a better word a cult."

I definitely should have made that more clear.

 

[Randocalrissian]

Strange. I'm trying to imagine the rationale. It seems to me that it would be: You're dead. Your spirit is elsewhere.The body is an empty vessel. At ressurection the body is going to need to be replaced with a look alike vessel or require a ton of repair anyway. It seems like it should be a non-issue. Sure, if you go enough out on the fringe I can see how someone might think something else. If you're a translated being, definitely. But the statement I was questioning was that Mormons (generic, mainstream Mormons, as I interpreted it) had issues with autopsies.

Mormons do not have an issue with autopsies, as many posters who are knowledgeable on the topic have said. It gets frustrating when people who are not knowledgeable on a subject make statements as if they are, especially when they are wrong.

 

[BigAl16]

That is very true. The other dynamic I realized is that when the couple is sealed.

For the most part, in modern society if your marriage is not working out, or going south you get a divorce. End of story, life moves on.

Being in LDS it becomes a lot different. I grew up with the belief system, that you marry and divorce was not an option.

If you've been sealed though, short of your spouse cheating (apparently usage is also considered cheating) on you, it is not well favored.

You are strongly encouraged to work out your differences, and this is reinforced using religion to back this up. Getting a civil divorce is the same as anyone else, but getting the sealing cancelled is very difficult from what I understand.

Depending on who divorces whom(and why), you may find yourself being a social pariah amongst your peers.

I went through a divorce myself, and noticed it immediately. No one really brings it up (per say). You just start noticing things: People start distancing themselves from you, avoid eye contact, make up excuses that they have to leave (30 seconds into the conversation), etc.

This may explain some of the dynamics in this case, or it may just mean nothing. MOO

I saw a video (maybe Dateline?) where Lori's friend April was talking about that, specifically her being a single mom and how that felt as an active Mormon and I think she indicated that Lori didn't seem to look down on her like others did for that. I can't remember if she indicated the attitude had changed any.

The interesting thing about a temple wedding/sealing is that a man doesn't have to have it undone, does he? If they get a civil divorce, but the man can still convince his bishop that he's worthy of a temple recommend then he could marry as many women as he wanted in the temple, then divorce them on Earth, right? That would give him a regular harem of wives in the hereafter, at least in theory. I suspect that would become problematic (would the bishop let it fly?) but at least in theory it could happen. However, from what I've observed I think Mormon men see divorce as a non-starter as much as women as a general rule. But it doesn't seem it would have to be that way. If instead of divorcing the wives he was to have really bad luck with wives having accidents or bad luck with health and dying, it would be easier to get that lots of wives in the hereafter setup. I think someone suggested that might be Chad's approach although I suspect getting Lori to a legit sealing is going to be problematic. (Their own version of it might be another story.)