Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #32

[indicolite22]

I tend to shy away from the name calling as it's against TOS.

Websleuths is a victim friendly site, too. Lori and Chad are named POIs in this case, not victims. Portraying Lori as a victim is wrong as well. Jmo

Generally speaking, what about POIs who later turn out not to be the perpetrators? Even perpetrators can sometimes be victims themselves. IMO it's a legit line of argument. If it goes against facts/logic, then expect it to be challenged.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Generally speaking, what about POIs who later turn out not to be the perpetrators? Even perpetrators can sometimes be victims themselves. IMO it's a legit line of argument. If it goes against facts/logic, then expect it to be challenged.

I don't see Lori as a victim. What facts/logic do you feel can be presented to champion her innocence? Jmo

 

[Love Never Fails]

I've been turning something over and over in my head and I'm going to put it out there. Maybe this is impossible, or too overwhelming for LE to check out, but if it could be done...

At two critical time periods, visits to well-frequented locations occurred and I have copied over those two timeline entries here from those provided by Gardener1850 on page 1 of the thread:

8 Sept 2019 – Tylee is seen for the last time last on a trip to Yellowstone with Lori, JJ and Alex. Police obtained phone records that show Lori, AC and J.J. went to Yellowstone National Park. There is also a photo of Tylee at the park entrance from Lori’s iCloud account. “This is the last time we can find any record of [Tylee Ryan] being with Lori Vallow. We have found no witnesses who can verify they have seen TR since Sept. 8, 2019,” (Affidavit of Probable Cause Doc; East Idaho News).

Approx 28 Nov - Dec 1, 2019 – Chad spends Thanksgiving weekend on vacation with his family in Southern California, traveling there via SLC airport. Photos posted to social media show Chad at the airport and later Knott’s Berry Farm, an amusement park in Buena Park, CA. Lori wasn't in any of the photos and her location during this time is unconfirmed. The CA trip was concluded Dec 1 and photos were posted on social media Dec 2 (WS Verified Insider posts).

In the approx. 7-week period BETWEEN the two trips (primarily within a month after the first), JJ disappears, TD is shot at in her driveway, CD urges TD to take a trip to see her family, BB is shot at as he pulls into his driveway, Melani moves to Rexburg (after attempting to track down BB and her children), TD dies "peacefully in her sleep," CD moves out of the home he shared with TD and his children, and Lori and CD marry on a beach in Kauai.

Immediately BEFORE the second trip, LE attempted the wellness check on JJ and was lied to by Lori, CD, and AxC, who all left town the next day. At the same time as the second trip, in nearby Vegas (4 hrs driving time away), AxC and ZP marry (and he takes her name) and then MBP and IP marry (and AxC serves as witness, using his new last name).

Lori's presence is unknown during the timing of that second trip, but it is known she had vacated Rexburg and that immediately AFTER that second trip, she and CD fly to Kauai.

Is it possible that the well-frequented locales are chosen for both these visits because, given there are so many people and their cellphones present in those locations at any given time (and especially during or around holidays), LE's ability to narrow down upon and identify cellphone users who are in close proximity to the cellphones of known key figures BOTH dates is thwarted?

What are the odds that someone will be vacationing in YNP the weekend after Labor Day and will also be vacationing at Knott's Berry Farm around Thanksgiving?

It seems worth considering.

(IIRC, there was a flyer promoting a meeting near YNP the weekend after Labor Day of one of the groups that associated with CD and LVD as podcasters/speakers. So, there may be many known associates of CD/LVD in that area at the time. But, KBF at Thanksgiving too?)

I’m slow and this case is crazy, but what does YNP on Labor Day and being at KBF at Thanksgiving have to do with each other. I don’t know the locales but one is in Wy right and the other in CA?

 

[KonaHonu]

Another random thought today...

At the bail reduction hearing the prosecutor asked that producing the kids be a condition of bail. The odd part is that Means did not objecct to that. I hesitate to read too much into that. He could have not objected because he saw his goal at the time to get Lori out of jail no matter what it took. And I don't want to get into the pointless character assassination about his competence but I also have to consider that his lack of objecting to that condition might have something to do with his lawyering skills.

Think about it. What if the judge said "Fine, I see good cause to reduce bail to $1 on the condition the kids are turned over to Rexburg police." What would he have done then?

I'd try to find that moment in he hearing but honestly, it would be too painful to watch that trainwreck again.

 

[Nurse Gen]

I've been turning something over and over in my head and I'm going to put it out there. Maybe this is impossible, or too overwhelming for LE to check out, but if it could be done...

At two critical time periods, visits to well-frequented locations occurred and I have copied over those two timeline entries here from those provided by Gardener1850 on page 1 of the thread:

8 Sept 2019 – Tylee is seen for the last time last on a trip to Yellowstone with Lori, JJ and Alex. Police obtained phone records that show Lori, AC and J.J. went to Yellowstone National Park. There is also a photo of Tylee at the park entrance from Lori’s iCloud account. “This is the last time we can find any record of [Tylee Ryan] being with Lori Vallow. We have found no witnesses who can verify they have seen TR since Sept. 8, 2019,” (Affidavit of Probable Cause Doc; East Idaho News).

Approx 28 Nov - Dec 1, 2019 – Chad spends Thanksgiving weekend on vacation with his family in Southern California, traveling there via SLC airport. Photos posted to social media show Chad at the airport and later Knott’s Berry Farm, an amusement park in Buena Park, CA. Lori wasn't in any of the photos and her location during this time is unconfirmed. The CA trip was concluded Dec 1 and photos were posted on social media Dec 2 (WS Verified Insider posts).

In the approx. 7-week period BETWEEN the two trips (primarily within a month after the first), JJ disappears, TD is shot at in her driveway, CD urges TD to take a trip to see her family, BB is shot at as he pulls into his driveway, Melani moves to Rexburg (after attempting to track down BB and her children), TD dies "peacefully in her sleep," CD moves out of the home he shared with TD and his children, and Lori and CD marry on a beach in Kauai.

Immediately BEFORE the second trip, LE attempted the wellness check on JJ and was lied to by Lori, CD, and AxC, who all left town the next day. At the same time as the second trip, in nearby Vegas (4 hrs driving time away), AxC and ZP marry (and he takes her name) and then MBP and IP marry (and AxC serves as witness, using his new last name).

Lori's presence is unknown during the timing of that second trip, but it is known she had vacated Rexburg and that immediately AFTER that second trip, she and CD fly to Kauai.

Is it possible that the well-frequented locales are chosen for both these visits because, given there are so many people and their cellphones present in those locations at any given time (and especially during or around holidays), LE's ability to narrow down upon and identify cellphone users who are in close proximity to the cellphones of known key figures BOTH dates is thwarted?

What are the odds that someone will be vacationing in YNP the weekend after Labor Day and will also be vacationing at Knott's Berry Farm around Thanksgiving?

It seems worth considering.

(IIRC, there was a flyer promoting a meeting near YNP the weekend after Labor Day of one of the groups that associated with CD and LVD as podcasters/speakers. So, there may be many known associates of CD/LVD in that area at the time. But, KBF at Thanksgiving too?)

Yes, where was Lori? Los Angeles area-we now know that Chad's kids knew her. Las Vegas-as you pointed out @Diddian it's only a 4 hour drive to meet up with Chad in LA and fly to Hawaii
Hm. Thanks for this great post!

 

[Nurse Gen]

Yes I like your point!!! If she loved her kids like most do ( or like she used to) she would have gone into hiding with them. While she was away with them she could have figured out where to go as to not be found and chad could have used his insurance money to make sure they went somewhere and were never found. Instead she sent her kids away to some body off the grid and went on her happy way to Hawaii to live out her new ( sick in the head) life as Mrs Daybell. It just makes no sense that her kids are off somewhere. People need to look at reality when they hear these things. Yes everything and anything is possible . With everything to date there is no sign the FBI has found any teensie weenie of proof of life JMO

ITA @Bellat! Also, Chad had told his parents (Parents!) that Lori was an empty nester, so probably not doing much to find a place where he could use his insurance money to make sure that no one could find them.

 

[Nurse Gen]

You get an approving nod from me for taking the moral high ground regarding name calling. I've certainly called suspects silly, negative names... and had posts reported and removed for such. You'll find me at the bottom of the moral barrel with this case. I find it particularly difficult to refrain from using negative terms when referring to LVD and CD - primarily because of all the reasons you listed in your post, especially "how Lori and Chad could be innocent or the victim in all of this, and why the children must be hidden away for some greater good, but nothing, absolutely nothing anyone has come up with makes any kind of sense in light of known facts, established truths, and good common sense."

The one thing I strive to do (not always successfully, but I try)... is to refrain from piling on negativity towards a WS member who holds an unpopular opinion and has numerous posts telling them such. Why do I need to add mine when someone else has already stated as much?

We all have our strong and weak points. I make lots of mistakes here on WS and in this world in general. I'm trying to do better... that moral high ground sure is high.

JMO

Wish I had said this @fred&edna Thanks!

 

[Love Never Fails]

Yes, where was Lori? Los Angeles area-we now know that Chad's kids knew her. Las Vegas-as you pointed out @Diddian it's only a 4 hour drive to meet up with Chad in LA and fly to Hawaii
Hm. Thanks for this great post!

But what does that have to do with YNP?

 

[Nurse Gen]

But what does that have to do with YNP?

Just looking at the point @Diddian made about the POI possibly choosing well frequented locations to obscure nefarious acts and/or obscure their being at the location in any investigation of cell phone and other digital evidence. Diddian identified YNP and Knotts Berry Farm; Las Vegas is a 3rd well frequented location

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

Yeah, that was my first thought, but since he has Melani's as well there might be other factors.

It's certainly not my top theory, just something that came to mind.

There's just no way BB would cause that kind of pain to KW and LW, given how supportive he has been of them. No one is that good of an actor. I wish there was a chance they were being hidden by anyone at all, but sadly there is just about zero possibility of that being the case.

Mom of missing kids gets bond reduced to $1 million in Idaho

 

[155etta]

Nate Eaton - Reporter
Just spoke with Melani and Ian Pawlowski via Zoom for 90 minutes. No questions were off limits and they answered everything I asked. We are splitting the interview into three parts (for video processing purposes) and will post it without any edits starting tomorrow.

 

[indicolite22]

I don't see Lori as a victim. What facts/logic do you feel can be presented to champion her innocence? Jmo

I wasn't advocating for anyone's innocence. I think that discussing whether a POI was victimized at some point should not be off limits. That wouldn't necessarily imply their innocence.

 

[Bellat]

ITA @Bellat! Also, Chad had told his parents (Parents!) that Lori was an empty nester, so probably not doing much to find a place where he could use his insurance money to make sure that no one could find them.

Yes another great point! He knew that his parents would never meet the kids as they were “gone”. I mean if she planned on seeing her kids again then chad could have told them that they are away at boarding school and therefore one day they could meet them..... that one point says A LOT!!

 

[KonaHonu]

There's just no way BB would cause that kind of pain to KW and LW, given how supportive he has been of them. No one is that good of an actor. I wish there was a chance they were being hidden by anyone at all, but sadly there is just about zero possibility of that being the case.

Yeah, and just to be clear, if he took them it would be to protect them. I see him as a good guy. But you're right, I don't think he would hide it from Kay.

 

[Bellat]

Melani says she knows Charles was "working with" Brandon and Kay. If that was true Kay wouldn't have had to find Lori's address from Charles' Amazon emails.

moo

Yes exactly.... just more proof that this point of view they ( her family) are giving out now is their only leg to stand on. We’re not stupid tho and there are 100’s of more nuggets just like that one to put against their foolish conspiracy theories

 

[Bellat]

I'm going to throw another hypothetical out. There is one person who might have reason to hide the kids for their own protection - BB. The dates don't quite match but I think they could be stretched a bit to match. Maybe after he was shot he decided he had to protect all the kids involved, his own and JJ and Tylee. So he goes to Idaho, tracks them down and kidnaps them (for lack of a better term.) Maybe he even tells Lori later that he has them. We already know that he did this with his own kids. It would require Tylee and JJ being with Lori for a week or so longer than is believed.

I realize there is no evidence for this except possible circumstantial but that is essentially true for this entire case.

Sorry but there are so manny things to point away from that idea... I would need a day to make a list. No offence

 

[Riverdoc]

Thank you, Riverdoc, for sharing your knowledge on the subject. Based on what you have shared, I also hope FBI medical folks are taking a detailed look.

I'm curious whether what you described (lots of tiny emboli in the lungs) is also what is being found in the lungs of those who have become infected with COVID19 and suffered more serious symptoms than those who have mild cases. I've seen reports about lots of clots in the lower lungs, with bits of dead tissue, in those cases.

I ask because there have been some reports that COVID19 was spreading here in the western US earlier than originally thought. AxC traveled to Vegas for his and Melani's marriages on November 29 & 30 and there were reports that he was having trouble breathing the week before he died on December 12. I don't think he was very overweight and he was not yet in his 60's, but the atherosclerosis and hypertension would be complicating factors in a COVID19 infection, as I understand it. I know very little about medical subjects, but I think I also remember hearing something about potassium levels drastically changing in COVID19-related cytokine storm, but cannot remember which way.

Getting far afield from finding missing kids...but ok, COVID, and JMO. I try to limit my consumption of news on COVID because there is so much conjecture out there. I also am part of a large physician Facebook group, so it is helpful to have frontline reports from different areas of the country and the world. First of all, nobody knew of any human COVID a year ago so symptoms, vulnerability, whether or not natural immunity will be a thing is all being uncovered slowly and as people WORK TOGETHER to share data. It does seem like one presentation, especially in kids is “microemboli” leading to the finding of “COVID toes” , so it wouldn’t just be emboli in the lungs. The cytokine storm is a manifestation of an immune symptom out of control. The decline in pulmonary function is rapid but also progressive. With a PE shortness of breath and chest pain is a sudden event.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

Getting far afield from finding missing kids...but ok, COVID, and JMO. I try to limit my consumption of news on COVID because there is so much conjecture out there. I also am part of a large physician Facebook group, so it is helpful to have frontline reports from different areas of the country and the world. First of all, nobody knew of any human COVID a year ago so symptoms, vulnerability, whether or not natural immunity will be a thing is all being uncovered slowly and as people WORK TOGETHER to share data. It does seem like one presentation, especially in kids is “microemboli” leading to the finding of “COVID toes” , so it wouldn’t just be emboli in the lungs. The cytokine storm is a manifestation of an immune symptom out of control. The decline in pulmonary function is rapid but also progressive. With a PE shortness of breath and chest pain is a sudden event.

The chest pain started a week earlier. Is that within the definition of sudden that you are speaking of?

 

[KonaHonu]

I must admit, I was expecting Alex's autopsy to come back as a homicide just like almost everything else. I considered PE because of the symptoms but I really suspected some kind of poison. And if he was murdered I would think it was to tie up loose ends related to the kids' disappearance.

Now that we know his death was natural I don't know what to think. To me it makes it that much less likely that Lori had any reason to harms the kids over what they may have witnessed on July 11, 2019.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

@Nurse Gen , do we assume that CBPANELS were normal since they weren't in the tox report and that nothing like carbon monoxide poisoning happened and would have been ruled out that way? Or is that something they'd have to specifically test for? Same with something like arsenic?

An interesting cause of pulmonary emboli: acute carbon monoxide poisoning. - PubMed - NCBI