Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #32

[MadTing]

Melani said that she first met Chad in late 2018. IMO she knows a lot more about his beliefs than she lets on.
/QUOTE]

Ians zombie document also states

"There was so much information dumped on her from chad and lori that she can't remember what she learned from them and the podcasts she listened to."

Sounds like they told her all about their crazy beliefs and she was listening to all the podcasts.

 

[Tortoise]

Funnily enough i got this exact impression for a brief moment watching the latest interview, like she was trying to plant the seed of the only time she has ever seen such documents is from charles brining it over to her house.

What was the deal with the email lori sent to chad claiming to be from charles again? Its hard to keep up with all the details on this case at this point!

I don't know if you're referring to the email found by Charles in June - @Gardener1850 typed it up in this post: ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #23

or the email from Chad to Lori in Oct 2018 - Justin Lum Fox 10 on Twitter

 

[MadTing]

I don't know if you're referring to the email found by Charles in June - @Gardener1850 typed it up in this post: ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #23

or the email from Chad to Lori in Oct 2018 - Justin Lum Fox 10 on Twitter

The one found by charles i was thinking of thanks!

 

[MadTing]

Did anybody come to any conclusions to why lori may have faked an email from charles to chad asking to fly him out regarding charles book? What was she hoping to achieve doing this and what if chad had agreed to fly out?

 

[TLobo]

Melani said that she first met Chad in late 2018. IMO she knows a lot more about his beliefs than she lets on.

She's making a whole lot of effort to make Lori look blameless by repeating at least 10 times how good of a mother she is, who would never hurt her kids.

Ah, you're right on both counts. So Melani met Chad a year prior to her move to Rexburg, but that's still a lot of interaction with someone you've met at an event, then spent a few weeks with in close geographical proximity.

And I think she is trying to make Lori look like a great mother, but in a way that gives Melani the benefit of the doubt that she had no awareness of anything hinky going on. MOO, but like, I was so worried about the kids, but because what I know about Lori is that she's a good mom, I realized I don't have to worry anymore. I certainly don't know anything and am a really good mom myself (LOL) that you should probably just give me my kids back.

 

[Sorelle19]

In addition to serving as a (fake) narrative in their ongoing custody disputes, IP and MBP's interviews also seem to be carefully worded to cast Chad as a much more mainstream author. Yet, the guy's beliefs are well-documented! Why would Melani even go down this road?

Hmmm, maybe she's been coached on some of this by Chad himself? He mentioned in an email to AVOW member CP that he hoped his followers would still be listening when he was finally able to "speak" again, aka, sell stuff. But IMO, I think he realizes/knows that his ability to sell books after all of this is limited. He's been exposed. So, how IS he going to make a living?

As far as MBP, I wonder how much money/spousal support she received in her divorce settlement. Was it a lump sum? Monthly payments?

 

[indicolite22]

Ah, you're right on both counts. So Melani met Chad a year prior to her move to Rexburg, but that's still a lot of interaction with someone you've met at an event, then spent a few weeks with in close geographical proximity.

Melani acknowledges that Chad and Lori were friends. She can't deny it after we learned that Chad was sending Lori emails early on. I think Melani was involved in Chad's group from the beginning and might have had more contact with Chad directly or through Lori. Brandon claims that Melani's involvement in Lori's cult was the reason for his marriage breakdown after Melani suddendly came to him with crazy accusations. Also, Ian mentioned in his document that Melani listened to podcasts and was explaining portals (yet another non-LDS feature) to him. IMO Melani was an insider in the group and is now playing dumb. You can tell it by the number of times she needs to assure us that she's a member of the LDS church.

 

[indicolite22]

The way she nonchalantly tries to explain the document found on ians computer as ian just jotting down rumours " other people briefly told her" The document started out like an extremely detailed and specific manual. its not even possible to remember all of those things in such detail from a conversation, or even to relay all of those details to somebody in such specific detail. She must have had some kind of document of her own that she got from chad or lori with all the details that she was showing or gave a copy to ian imo.

Link to the rest of those document

READ: Exhibit from Brandon Boudreaux's court filing | East Idaho News

BBM. You nailed it. I'm sure the group manifesto came from Chad's computer and I hope he distributed it to potential witnesses in the case.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Does anybody have any links to the podcast chad and lori used to do? they all seem to have been taken down from the PAP website.

you can still get to the LV one with JM and MG.... on youtube.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Is there a place that lists all the players names and initials to match? I am getting confused.

thanks.

 

[Spartygirl]

Take a shot everytime she says " Truth"

**Add to that every time she says "Lori is just protecting the children"
CHEERS-- at this rate I will be passed out by noon
LOL

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

From my experience, and what I've seen only. At a younger age, in your 20's it seems that there is a lot of pressure to get married fast. It's rare that I saw anyone get married that fast though.

The older you get, the less this becomes an issue, at least in my experience, although there seems to be more of a desperation among some to get married. This maybe due to hearing that families can be together forever, every time you go to church. You'll hear this over, and over again, where if you are single, you feel like there is something wrong with you. I digress.

However, the odd thing to me, is that they got married in Vegas. That really stands out to me.

Most active members in good standing, actually will refuse to get married civilly, and choose instead to get married & sealed in a local temple instead. The belief is to get sealed to families forever, which is extremely important in the LDS religion. This obviously requires that both the man and woman are worthy of entering the temple (I.e hold temple recommends)

Those that aren't worthy to get married in the temple (and who don't want to wait to work towards that goal) will typically choose to instead get married locally (i.e. Rexburg), in a local Chapel having your local Bishop preside. They still have the choice to work towards getting a temple marriage down the road.

Also, There is always at least one reception too. This is a huge deal here in Idaho. Never seen a wedding that doesn't have a huge reception. As far as I know, they never had one that I have heard about, very strange.

Vegas would have a negative connotation to it, and wouldn't make any sense. I've been to plenty of weddings over the years, but don't recall one of them being in Vegas.

What I do recall is years ago, BYU (Utah), cracked down on a bunch of students that were trying to be sneaky with religion. What they were doing is going to Vegas on the weekend to get married, having sex, then getting an annulment before going back to school a few days later. The Church got wind of this, and made sure that students understood this is not acceptable, and will not be tolerated. They were obviously breaking the Spirit of the Law, as the Church was pointing out.

Ever since then, Vegas weddings in the LDS religion have had a very negative light shed on them, probably for this reason. Plus, Vegas weddings are seen as a quickie marriage when you are eloping; that is the other time I have heard of getting married in Vegas.

What strikes me as odd, is Melani, Lori, and the rest of this group come off as wanting everyone to believe that they are very active in their religion, and are held in high regard. Yet, they all have these quick weddings that aren't even in a church, let alone a temple? There are no guests, no receptions, and they all happen super fast.

Something feels very off to me.

MOO

From what I know, sealings to spouses take a long time to break. And it’s super cheap airfare to travel to Vegas from Idaho falls. Although, I certainly agree they don’t appear to be too focused on true LDS culture because they made different choices than what’s considered the “norm”. Anyone else it’d appear normal to run off and elope. But it doesn’t even appear they eloped since AC and ZP were there and MP is claiming IP had his children there too. So it definitely looks suspicious

 

[nhmemorymaker]

You're new here, aren't you? I meant to say welcome aboard!

Is it unsettling to have an fbi unit in town?

Dreamer, is this your pickup line? Sounds cute. tee hee.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Yes, I think IP and MP most likely went to see his family to tell them they had already decided they were going to get married. I think it was important to him to let his family and his children know.

MOO

But why Arizona? Ian was in Rexburg, and Chad Pawlowski and family are in CA. Must be another relative in AZ??? And I wonder how he had the kids. First big holiday after a divorce, and crazy stuff starting to happen. I just think that if I were Natalie, I would have said "maybe next year"...

 

[nhmemorymaker]

rsbm
"Kids" plural.

Why doesn't anyone ever ask these people what Tylee being "protected" - two weeks before JJ was "protected" meanwhile registered at school, introduced to neighbors, left outside unsupervised - has to do with Kay asking to see JJ?

"Threats to harm" is such a lame narrative that they've all just suddenly latched onto. It's coming from Chad I have no doubt. So we see his cowardly mind churning this over - he needs a mouthpiece, and who needs a story right now? Melani and Lori's family. Imagine if Chad had a different story, how that would make them look in the public eye. There was no mention of any of this in Ian's notes - that is time-critical information written before the warrant for Lori's arrest was drawn up. It's no surprise to see Melani distancing herself from it, with a load of waffle and distraction. She even had the audacity to try to pin the zombie stuff on Charles! That was a desperate look.

I'm glad this is being recorded as much as I abhor listening to it, and seeing the attempts to defame Kay and Brandon, because it can be fact checked against evidence and shown to be lies.

MOO

I believe someone had established one scenario where Tylee was sent someplace to get it ready for JJ's arrival.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Is there any information on chads up bringing regarding he and his family's religious beliefs? When did he adopt his so called LDS beliefs? I am not personally convinced chad believes any of the stuff he talked about, he strikes me as the kind of guy that likes to tell these fantasy style stories to people and gets a kick out of people being captivated by it all and feeling like they are all part of this group he's created. Other this his own claims of having near death experiences, is there any other prior history of his religious beliefs growing up? Part of me feels like he set out to take advantage of people from the get go.

As far as I have been able to determine.... All families of the POIs and people, husbands etc around them have been Mormon for generations. The only difference is all of Lori's four husbands. I believe that Charles is the only one who converted though. But somewhere in back threads, someone "in the know", said he was actually quite devout.

 

[April_Dawn99]

The way she nonchalantly tries to explain the document found on ians computer as ian just jotting down rumours " other people briefly told her" The document started out like an extremely detailed and specific manual. its not even possible to remember all of those things in such detail from a conversation, or even to relay all of those details to somebody in such specific detail. She must have had some kind of document of her own that she got from chad or lori with all the details that she was showing or gave a copy to ian imo.

Link to the rest of those document

READ: Exhibit from Brandon Boudreaux's court filing | East Idaho News

Yep, it's worth rereading this document - there are A LOT of direct contradictions to what MP and IP tried to communicate in the interviews, as well as direct indications that MP was very well informed of all the beliefs (the document is very detailed and structured), shared them with IP long before December (she started to share them 4 days after they've met for the first time), supported them ("she sounded pretty certain of some of them"), got them directly from CD and LV ("explained zombies and her fears about what Chad and Lori had stated concerning the original spirits being caught in limbo until the body's death", "had been told by Chad and Lori that their children had been posessed and became zombies", "she's been told Brandon needed to die", "so much information dumped on her by Chad and Lori" etc etc etc). No way these are just "fears" MP got from CV's divorce documents and what MG said. MOO

 

[Kudzu]

Did anybody come to any conclusions to why lori may have faked an email from charles to chad asking to fly him out regarding charles book? What was she hoping to achieve doing this and what if chad had agreed to fly out?

My thought was that it was a run of the mill booty call. The email from “Charles” was to provide the cover story for Chad to show his wife.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

This is a point I've been trying to make over and over. Most mainstream Mormons would regard these beliefs as absolutely opposed to LDS doctrine. But those involved in these kinds of things would not. They feel that they are working from within Mormon doctrine when they come to these types of conclusions, not that they are departing from it.

So even if Melani is a fellow-traveler with Chad on this (which is probably still an open question), she can legitimately argue that she's a true-believing Mormon; as most everyone within the PAP and AVOW groupings would sincerely also say about themselves.

Self perception and perception by the larger body of LDS is not necessarily the same thing in this case.

Mormonism is sometimes contrasted with other forms of Christianity as emphasizing orthopraxy (right practice) over orthodoxy (right thinking/doctrine). I think this contrast is overblown at times, but in this case it does help explain why (as long as their unusual beliefs didn't become too prominent) both those holding the unusual beliefs and those in their larger LDS community were never all that alarmed by Chad and others as long as they continued to show signs of acting like "normal Mormons."

P.S. I'm sorry if I sound frustrated. It's certainly not at you. But I feel like we're overall missing the point a little bit on how we discuss Chad or Lori's or Melani's or Ian's beliefs.

It's as if we expect them to self-identify those beliefs as outside the bounds of LDS thinking. So we get questions on Websleuths about whether beliefs attributed to Chad or Lori are mainstream LDS, and many LDS respondents (including myself) answer that they're not. And that's true enough.

But that's not really what's important. Rather, it's what those who have those beliefs think. And I think the evidence is that they (I'll speak of the larger PAP-type communities here, not Chad or Lori per se, because I can't speak to what any individual thinks) sincerely believe this stuff is a perfectly logical outgrowth of their Mormonism, not a departure from it.

So when Melanie gets asked about "cult beliefs" or similar phrasings, not only can she sincerely answer that she doesn't belong to a cult because who would actually admit to that after all (nobody thinks they belong to a cult), but also because those pursuing those kinds of beliefs are fully convinced that they are pursuing the deeper truths that exist within Mormonism rather than abandoning or rejecting Mormonism.

It is like one big contiuum with mainstream and the various offshoots, imo.

What I feel is "different" about the Mormon religion than say other Christian religions is that there is "progression", not just liturgy to follow, bible study to attend.

You, LDSSS had informed us of the upward positions a Mormon (male) could espouse to which gave them greater knowledge and position within their wards and stakes. I remember that some of these promotions or progressions were based on being a stellar upstanding individual in the community, but believe you and others, added even more things that one can do to achieve higher position and power. But it shows "progression up" within the infrastructure .

I feel there are similar "progressive" actions within these extended believing groups. I look at it as more of a "progression down. It is as if the more you believe and seem to truly understand and abide to, the "deeper and deeper" into the secrets,thoughts actions for the future you will be privileged to learn/hear.

This is where the confusion comes for me. When does one of these people start looking back at the mainstream church and realize "maybe I am going to far with this"... shore is pretty far away.

THIS is why I don't think people will talk. Because if they know a lot to share, they are too far from the more comfortable mainstream shore. And, that's why i think it is easy for Melani etal to easily believe "no cult". Because they can still come back on shore.

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

Entire 46-minute interview with Melani and Ian for 12 News below.

Transcript here: Lori Vallow's niece talks about missing kids, FBI and her family's role in bizarre case

MP says Lori and Chad fled? So which is it MP they fled or it was planned?

Why can’t MP seem to explain who Chad is other than an author? She almost seems to freeze up explaining about him.

Did Kay hire the private investigator with B.B.?

Does NP and B.B. know each other prior to this whole thing? Did Chad know IP prior to this whole thing?