Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #33

[mickey2942]

I wonder why the results from Alex's autopsy have not been released yet.

 

[KonaHonu]

For me, I just keep coming back to the fact that the FBI, among MANY other agencies, deem the kids to be missing and have found absolutely NO trace of them. I just don’t think Lori and Chad can pull off some secret disappearance of the kids and leave NO trace!

I agree with other posters that the thought process was no body, no crime. Otherwise, surely there would be some trace evidence to follow? MOO

Someone posted earlier today the reminder that the 144,000 had to get rid of their kids and other baggage, not by killing them but by putting them with others, at least I think that was here.

So my theory remains that they stashed the kids with someone, as did Melani (with BB) and are hoping to carry out the grand plan. Lori being in jail is clearly a setback but since I believe this is a large group, not a major diversion. I'm sure LE has Chad under a microscope right now along with many others.

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

Autopsy is very different from what I do, and there are different credentials required (or not) in different places. Some places, a coroner job is by election or political appointment. If someone shows up in an emergency room like this, poisoning should be in one’s minds as a possibility (among many possibilities) and between labs and exam you figure it out and respond accordingly. We have no idea what labs were drawn in the ED (I assume EMS took him to a hospital). Once someone is dead...well, the tox screen was different from what I have seen at most hospitals for both some of the inclusions (methanol, gabapentin) and exclusions (benzodiazepines, opiates) . I also don’t fully understand what gets captured as “natural” death versus homicide. Do you need to have a knife literally in your back for homicide? The clinical presentation sure sounds like the ‘natural’ cascade of physiology when exposed to organophosphate. Even different hospitals have slightly different tox screen panels and different cutoffs for “positive” results. Mostly the menu choice for any given hospital is a financial decision made by administrators.

Thanks for that information. I hadn't considered that a separate tox screen may have been run in the ED.

 

[StrangerThanFiction]

BTW, I believe Melanie Gibb will be an important witness against her. There is a fascinating social media post out there that shares supposed details of what Melanie has shared with LE to date. If it's true, it's devastating for Lori in this case and perhaps others to be brought.

I have stuck strictly with Justin Lum, Nate Eaton, and clearly WS for this case. I’ve stayed far away from SM, but this info on MG has me intrigued...any direction you can provide will be appreciated.

 

[StrangerThanFiction]

(Also can CD be any nerdier on the video footage they keep showing?)

This is what just flat-out befuddles me with all of this—CD is the PARAGON of human “nerdiness”. I just can’t fathom him leading ANYTHING, nor any appeal from anyone to FOLLOW him. It makes zero sense to me.

 

[Knox]

Summer, the sister, has a smile & a laugh for everything.
Amazing how cheerful she is discussing death, missing children, etc.
MOO

Just finished watching the 48 Hour special. There is something very wrong with LV's mom & sister, very creepy vibes. How old is Janice?

 

[Nurse Gen]

Autopsy is very different from what I do, and there are different credentials required (or not) in different places. Some places, a coroner job is by election or political appointment. If someone shows up in an emergency room like this, poisoning should be in one’s minds as a possibility (among many possibilities) and between labs and exam you figure it out and respond accordingly. We have no idea what labs were drawn in the ED (I assume EMS took him to a hospital). Once someone is dead...well, the tox screen was different from what I have seen at most hospitals for both some of the inclusions (methanol, gabapentin) and exclusions (benzodiazepines, opiates) . I also don’t fully understand what gets captured as “natural” death versus homicide. Do you need to have a knife literally in your back for homicide? The clinical presentation sure sounds like the ‘natural’ cascade of physiology when exposed to organophosphate. Even different hospitals have slightly different tox screen panels and different cutoffs for “positive” results. Mostly the menu choice for any given hospital is a financial decision made

Thanks @Riverdoc this is beyond the beyond, and it is just so great that we WS have your expertise on board

 

[KonaHonu]

Autopsy is very different from what I do, and there are different credentials required (or not) in different places. Some places, a coroner job is by election or political appointment. If someone shows up in an emergency room like this, poisoning should be in one’s minds as a possibility (among many possibilities) and between labs and exam you figure it out and respond accordingly. We have no idea what labs were drawn in the ED (I assume EMS took him to a hospital). Once someone is dead...well, the tox screen was different from what I have seen at most hospitals for both some of the inclusions (methanol, gabapentin) and exclusions (benzodiazepines, opiates) . I also don’t fully understand what gets captured as “natural” death versus homicide. Do you need to have a knife literally in your back for homicide? The clinical presentation sure sounds like the ‘natural’ cascade of physiology when exposed to organophosphate. Even different hospitals have slightly different tox screen panels and different cutoffs for “positive” results. Mostly the menu choice for any given hospital is a financial decision made by administrators.

I went through emergency medical response training in Arizona that included exposure to prehospital medical protocols in three counties in Arizona (not Maricopa or Pinal) that I was told are almost identical in all counties. In Arizona death is declared at hospital unless there are specific "signs of obvious death." Those are very clear including decapitation and burned beyond recognition. I am quite certain AC would have been taken to hospital, especially given that narcan was administered. That is to me a clear indication that first responders had reason to suspect opiate overdose and therefore thought he may be savable. At one time I was qualified to be part of an ambulance crew although I was limited in what I could do. My training was a part of my job so I never sought work on an ambulance or wanted to but I did learn some of the local procedures. The paramedic I learned from claimed he could keep an opiate od patient alive for hours or days if he got there before their heart stopped because they stopped breathing.

Someone said EMS does not take medical histories. That's actually not true. You take the history you can. There is not much you can get from an unconscious person of course. You start with the basics, airway, breathing and circulation in that order. Once those are dealt with and you have a stable breathing patient you absolutely start building a history, asking questions if conscious, checking pockets for drugs, you ask coworkers what may have happened, you look around at workplace conditions...are there drums of chemicals, etc. If the patient is conscious on arrival you observe behavior. There are certain body positions that suggest underlying conditions. Maybe Doc will be familiar with "tripoding" which suggests chronic lung disease and means you're gonna start oxygen...then there is something called "posturing" which indicates severe head injury that is almost certainly fatal. All of this is communicated to hospital before arrival.

I actually learned a number of "tricks" for obtaining history. One thing that is important for example with young girls is determining whether they could be pregnant. This is important in almost every case because it influences what drugs they may be given. So in a situation like a 10 year old hit by a line drive at softball practice she could have internal bleeding but on arrival might seem fine. You want to get mom away from her and ask her point blank about things like sexual activity and when her last period was. Because she is going to lie if mom is close by. And if she has internal bleeding that information window could be short before she needs emergency surgery. Similarly, if a person confesses drug use, that is priveledged even to an EMT so an EMT can absolutely direct cops to step away during treatment. Most cops will comply and the idiots who do not will get a quick lesson in the law and their role when they report to the DA that they heard the suspect tell an EMT he had used heroin. And, at least in Arizona, most cops are trained as EMRs and when acting in that capacity information they receive is medicall priveledged.

That of course has nothing to do with AC except that I think people here are being overly dismissive of the role of first responders in gathering information. They gather what medical information they can but their first duty is to stabilize for transport. Alex almost certainly was taken to hospital. In some places a death at home attended by EMS may go direct to morgue but that is not the case in Arizona, at least not where I was trained.

 

[KonaHonu]

Just finished watching the 48 Hour special. There is something very wrong with LV's mom & sister, very creepy vibes. How old is Janice?

73 or 74

 

[StrangerThanFiction]

Just finished watching the 48 Hour special. There is something very wrong with LV's mom & sister, very creepy vibes. How old is Janice?

Both interviews I’ve watched with mom and sis, I’ve noticed sis has very strange eye movements and blinking patterns. Would love an expert opinion on what that could indicate. Also of note, on 48 hours tonight, when asked about LVD being in a cult, they first laugh it off and then mom says, “Not that WE know of”. Huh....could it be that simple??

 

[MTW2011]

Did anyone else see this? All week up to tonight the description for the episode of 48 Hours made it sound like we were going to hear from Lori herself. Not sure if CBS writes those or what, but I don’t get how that would even be a possibility that Lori would talk to them or any other media.
photo - https://imgur.com/gallery/JOINJuh

 

[indicolite22]

The whole case is odd. Wish that they would hurry up and charge CD. I believe that because he is still free, they didn't find anything definitive in Tammy's autopsy.

Nate Eaton said on Nancy Grace's podcast that the autopsy might not be needed for the prosecution to proceed with the murder investigation in Tammy's case. Apparently there's a lot of evidence "in the cloud" against the main actors.

 

[Bree68]

Nate Eaton said on Nancy Grace's podcast that the autopsy might not be needed for the prosecution to proceed with the murder investigation in Tammy's case. Apparently there's a lot of evidence "in the cloud" against the main actors.

That would be great if they were dumb enough to leave text messages regarding what they did.

 

[Bree68]

Did anyone else see this? All week up to tonight the description for the episode of 48 Hours made it sound like we were going to hear from Lori herself. Not sure if CBS writes those or what, but I don’t get how that would even be a possibility that Lori would talk to them or any other media.
photo - 48hrs

I am glad that it wasn't just me. It must have been a tease to get us to watch.

 

[indicolite22]

The "48 Hours" episode (42 mins) at:

Search for missing Idaho children reveals "no sign of life, no sign of death" - CBS News

 

[MadTing]

Nothing new in the latest CBS show, i suppose its a good watch for regular people at home who don't follow the case like all of us though.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

But if she ultimately produces the kids and had arranged for their support this whole time there would be no social security fraud, no desertion, just lying to the police, which carries a $1000 fine.

Only in our dreams would that happen. MOO

But indeed, she could get hit with quite a bit of push back to pay for all the costs associated with looking for the children. We have seen it in other cases like The Runaway Bride and others, the names of the cases Escape me right now as I'm just starting my first cup of coffee

 

[indicolite22]

Most insurance will allow you to get 30 days worth of medication every 28 days so it would only be possible to “stockpile” about 2 dozen doses of Rispersal each year. There are other ways to “stockpile” drugs but all of the legal ones would leave a trail at the pharmacy. So.....I’m not buying this fairy tale her mom just floated.

In the program Lori's mother also claimed that JJ wasn't attached to his dog Bailey, so returning the dog wasn't a big loss for JJ, which Lori's sister agreed with. In contrast to that, Bailey's trainer said that Lori was heartless for taking him away from JJ. The dog helped him sleep at night without leaving the room.

When asked about Tylee's phone being found in Lori's possession, the mother said that Lori told her in September that she had confiscated Tylee's phone. It that were true, how was Tylee able to communicate with Colby and Lori's sister? I wonder about the extent of Tylee's SM activity before September 8 and after.

Janis said that she spoke to JJ on October 1st. She mentioned hearing him play in the background and later said that he was playing outside. I think she was making things up as she went along.

The medication, the dog and the phone - Lori's mother was trying hard to excuse Lori's actions, but she made no convincing arguments.

 

[indicolite22]

On 48Hours, Lori's friend saying that members of the 144,000 chosen ones had to separate themselves from their children and congregate with the other chosen ones...yikes. Fits the situations of both Lori's kids and MP's kids.

(Also can CD be any nerdier on the video footage they keep showing?)

In addition to that, the same Lori's friend said that Lori told her (this was early 2019) that Charles was already dead and that his body was inhabited by an evil spirit. Lori also told her that Tylee was a dark spirit.

This is well beyond Charles making "false claims" about Nick Schneider in his divorce documents.

In the meantime, Lori's sister is in denial: "She has never said that the world is going to end in July. That has never come from her mouth and her lips."

 

[indicolite22]

A cult expert's take on the case:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies