Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #10

[NYatheart]

I can’t believe this is still going on with basically no new information since everything started.

 

[mrjitty]

The reveal of the affair makes the deaths of the two spouses even more suspicious

 

[Irish_Eyes]

IANAL, but my best layman's guess as to what may be going on.

This order for LV to produce her children came from a motion of some kind - from CPS perhaps? When she didn't do that by 5. It is *possible* that the judge had something all typed out and ready to sign giving CPS custody of the kids, and maybe a contempt citation for LV to boot. But I don't think that means they can just call Kuai and be like 'go get the kids' (if you find them).

Instead, what I think happens is that this judge's family court order from another jurisdiction (state) has to first be accepted by Hawaii. States have to give 'full faith and credit' to the orders of other states. So this would theoretically be like a contingent from Idaho taking that official order to Hawaii personally, and presenting it to a judge in Hawaii. More or less, the judge will just confirm it's a valid order, dated, signed, sealed, what have you, and then it gets filed in Hawaii (also under seal, I'd imagine, you won't find it on a docket.) But once that order from an out-of-state jurisdiction is on the record in the new state, THEN, Rexburg can say 'Hey Kuai, here's the Hawaiian order, go enforce it.

NOT saying for sure this is what is happening, but this is my total layman's understanding of the process that would have to be followed if it is what is happening. Waiting is hard.

Lori has custody of her children, legally, as their parent unless/until she doesn't. So now if they go there and tell her she needs to produce her kids and she can't then maybe they have the basis for a custodial interference charge or neglect charge or something.

 

[mrjitty]

How crazy is our legal system, that a person is asked, "Where are your kids?". They lie to LEO, bail out to Hawaii, and their lawyer states that they have nothing to say. And now, over 2 months later, since last welfare check in November, these people have been on the beach in Hawaii. Court ordered by a judge, to bring in the children, and they stay at their favorite resort in Hawaii.

Is this really how our legal system is supposed to work?

I really don't get it either.

I mean i could get it more if the kids were definitely with other carers and Lori was simply keeping mum on it for ideological/religious reasons.

But not to offer any explanation? How is that not probable cause of itself?

 

[mrjitty]

IANAL, but my best layman's guess as to what may be going on.

This order for LV to produce her children came from a motion of some kind - from CPS perhaps? When she didn't do that by 5. It is *possible* that the judge had something all typed out and ready to sign giving CPS custody of the kids, and maybe a contempt citation for LV to boot. But I don't think that means they can just call Kuai and be like 'go get the kids' (if you find them).

Instead, what I think happens is that this judge's family court order from another jurisdiction (state) has to first be accepted by Hawaii. States have to give 'full faith and credit' to the orders of other states. So this would theoretically be like a contingent from Idaho taking that official order to Hawaii personally, and presenting it to a judge in Hawaii. More or less, the judge will just confirm it's a valid order, dated, signed, sealed, what have you, and then it gets filed in Hawaii (also under seal, I'd imagine, you won't find it on a docket.) But once that order from an out-of-state jurisdiction is on the record in the new state, THEN, Rexburg can say 'Hey Kuai, here's the Hawaiian order, go enforce it.

NOT saying for sure this is what is happening, but this is my total layman's understanding of the process that would have to be followed if it is what is happening. Waiting is hard.

Lori has custody of her children, legally, as their parent unless/until she doesn't. So now if they go there and tell her she needs to produce her kids and she can't then maybe they have the basis for a custodial interference charge or neglect charge or something.

I was wondering even a short circuit of the kind of interstate process you propose.

The failure to comply with the court order is treated as probable cause of itself - casting a strong suspicion something untoward has taken place - and upon which the FBI or local Law enforcement might act

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I was wondering even a short circuit of the kind of interstate process you propose.

The failure to comply with the court order is treated as probable cause of itself - casting a strong suspicion something untoward has taken place - and upon which the FBI or local Law enforcement might act

The problem is the failure to comply with the court order is a violation of Idaho law, not Hawaiian law. And although people can sit here and say 'she didn't comply', it only matters when Idaho courts have actually said that, and said it officially. And the only way Hawaii officially knows that is if and when Idaho gives them a court order that says so. Says me, with no law degree, so throw in that grain of salt, but, yeah.

 

[mrjitty]

The problem is the failure to comply with the court order is a violation of Idaho law, not Hawaiian law. And although people can sit here and say 'she didn't comply', it only matters when Idaho courts have actually said that, and said it officially. And the only way Hawaii officially knows that is if and when Idaho gives them a court order that says so. Says me, with no law degree, so throw in that grain of salt, but, yeah.

I am saying something different

Arrest Lori on suspicion of the death of the kids. The failure to produce the kids to the Idaho court is just one element building probable cause

 

[tresir2012]

She probably uses sex to manipulate and control.
There must be something else that he has that would benefit her although I don't know what that could be.

Imo

Life insurance. Property assets. Why marry otherwise? The victim just doesn't realise it yet. Charles realised it in time I believe and changed his will but it didnt save him. Can anyone remember if Chad was mentioned in the divorce paperwork? It could have saved several lives if he had been.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I am saying something different

Arrest Lori on suspicion of the death of the kids. The failure to produce the kids to the Idaho court is just one element building probable cause

Ah, okay.

I think the problem with that then is that the kids were last seen in September in Idaho (we think.) Hawaii may look at all this and say yeah, probable cause she did this, but what I don't think they can say is 'probable cause she did this in Hawaii.'

 

[tresir2012]

I just really feel like because she actually lived here and had a life here at one point we should've been more aware of this. But,

No, just we went out briefly to see if anyone was talking about it or even heard about it and no. But there was a LE with the blue lights in front of the line leading us and then they pulled over and stayed there, that is unusual for us to see here. we went home after and didn't hear or see anything other than that. The few people we spoke to didn't know about the case at all.

Thank you for keeping us updated. What time was the blue light incident?

 

[tresir2012]

I'm a Rexburg area local... After the public relations fiasco with Chad's daughter and a live reporter, everyone at work was given a blanket email reminder that what we say/do online ultimately reflects on our employer etc.

Oh really? That's funny. So no sticking your tongue out online which is something loads of people seem to do on their Instagram.

 

[Tortoise]

Ah, okay.

I think the problem with that then is that the kids were last seen in September in Idaho (we think.) Hawaii may look at all this and say yeah, probable cause she did this, but what I don't think they can say is 'probable cause she did this in Hawaii.'

That is when extradition will come into play, imo.

 

[tresir2012]

Hate to say it but , see no show. Grab a chair because this is going to be the long haul. She's going to push her legal limits as far as she can. I'd be surprised if the extradite her. I think she might have to pay a couple slaps on the wrist and then she'll continue to play this game till someone gets tired or loses interest in the case. I'm waiting for the autopsy report. I think that's when things will really get interesting. I believe she's waiting for the same thing. She wants to make sure her name is clear of that before pursuing forward with this custody battle. MOO. Insert Michael Jackson eating popcorn meme right here. Lol.

LE have said there is no active custody battle though. I don't think she will do anything. She already has custody of kids that are missing, hidden or deceased. The ball is in the court's hands now and we are not going to hear anything more about that. However, I agree the autopsy results will be the next hurdle and that should be public knowledge.

 

[Tortoise]

I'm quietly confident that something big is going down today. I think Kay knows more but isn't at liberty to talk about it. There is a strategy here and I think part of it is to keep Lori in the dark for the time being. But I think contempt isn't what she will be taken in for, it will be suspicion of murder.

MOO

 

[indicolite22]

I'm quietly confident that something big is going down today. I think Kay knows more but isn't at liberty to talk about it. There is a strategy here and I think part of it is to keep Lori in the dark for the time being. But I think contempt isn't what she will be taken in for, it will be suspicion of murder.

MOO

Murder of her children? IMO she won't be arrested on suspicion of murder unless the police have evidence indicating that the kids aren't alive any more (and not just absence of evidence that they are alive) and that she is responsible. What could that evidence be that they didn't have before yesterday?

 

[indicolite22]

I can’t believe this is still going on with basically no new information since everything started.

I'm sure the police aren't telling the public everything they have learned since the case started. For example, they probably know more about Lori's and Alex's movements in the critical months when/after the kids went missing.

 

[RexburgSleuth]

So... uh timeline? @Gardener1850 , how exactly do you plan to put in the alleged dancing video emails? That's going to be an interesting add IMO

 

[tresir2012]

Murder of her children? IMO she won't be arrested on suspicion of murder unless the police have evidence indicating that the kids aren't alive any more (and not just absence of evidence that they are alive) and that she is responsible. What could that evidence be that they didn't have before yesterday?

The fact that she couldn't produce them perhaps? (That's twice now. )

Here is a very long article recapping everything almost - quite comprehensive for posters new to the case, of which we have quite a few I think.
Welcome to WS.

Doomsday Mom Lori Vallow Misses Deadline to Produce Missing Kids

"In the six weeks since Idaho police announced that Tylee and J.J. Vallow were missing, the investigation into the siblings’ disappearance has taken more turns than one of their stepfather’s Mormon apocalypse novels.

And it took another one Thursday when their mother, Lori Vallow, blew the court-ordered deadline to produce them or face a contempt of court charge and possible arrest and extradition from Hawaii.

she and husband Chad Daybell have been holed up since cops started looking into the whereabouts of their children, the deaths of their previous spouses, and other bizarre incidents connected to the couple."

Lots more at links.

 

[Tortoise]

Murder of her children? IMO she won't be arrested on suspicion of murder unless the police have evidence indicating that the kids aren't alive any more (and not just absence of evidence that they are alive) and that she is responsible. What could that evidence be that they didn't have before yesterday?

Yes I think murder of her children. IMO, it's not just absence of evidence that they are alive, that's a huge reason.

Tylee has a presence of her own in terms of a phone, money, personal contacts and social media, and it is highly out of the ordinary for all that to go silent.

Her children are not with her and presumably they know through their search warrants that she has not been in contact with them. She is responsible for her children, as their sole parent and guardian and she has had opportunity now to show that they are safe.

Two children don't disappear by accident, or their own will - not children of 7 with attachment issues and special needs - or in the course of ordinary everyday life. JJ is particularly very vulnerable.

Lastly there are highly suspicious deaths around this couple and the circumstances of their marriage, and they absconded in the most suspicious circumstances. People are allowed to move without notifying anyone but these two did it surreptitiously to avoid police investigating the welfare of the children.

I don't think it's a question of what they didn't know before yesterday but of leaving sufficient time for them to monitor her and to know she hasn't been in contact, and that this is more than a honeymoon, and to advertise to anyone who may have been harboring the children or seen the children to come forward.

MOO

 

[CSIDreamer]

I can say that when we left, we were guided by LE and not sure why but he is now posted maybe they are securing the island-

Still reading. There may be an answer I haven't read yet. Guided by LE just in leaving or were you asked to leave? Jmo