Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #10

[indicolite22]

Yes I think murder of her children. IMO, it's not just absence of evidence that they are alive, that's a huge reason.

Tylee has a presence of her own in terms of a phone, money, personal contacts and social media, and it is highly out of the ordinary for all that to go silent.

Her children are not with her and presumably they know through their search warrants that she has not been in contact with them. She is responsible for her children, as their sole parent and guardian and she has had opportunity now to show that they are safe.

Two children don't disappear by accident, or their own will - not children of 7 with attachment issues and special needs - or in the course of ordinary everyday life. JJ is particularly very vulnerable.

Lastly there are highly suspicious deaths around this couple and the circumstances of their marriage, and they absconded in the most suspicious circumstances. People are allowed to move without notifying anyone but these two did it surreptitiously to avoid police investigating the welfare of the children.

I don't think it's a question of what they didn't know before yesterday but of leaving sufficient time for them to monitor her and to know she hasn't been in contact, and that this is more than a honeymoon, and to advertise to anyone who may have been harboring the children or seen the children to come forward.

MOO

Tylee has stopped posting on her fb a long time before all this started, so I don't make conclusions based on perceived SM inactivity (we don't know when the activity actually stopped). If Lori has access to her accounts she could have easily made posts and sent messages in Tylee's name.
I think that, given the circumstances, it is more likely than not that the kids are dead, but it's also technically not impossible that they are still alive. That doesn't mean that the police can prove that they are deceased and that Lori had a hand in it. IMO they need more than circumstantial evidence.

 

[BlkMtnGirl]

What if Lori truly doesn't know where the kids are - because Tylee packed up JJ and disappeared from Rexburg in the middle of the night? Maybe they headed to AZ or TX (but not to KVW's, knowing they'd be too easily found).

What if Tylee escaped with JJ in order to save herself and her little brother from Lori (and perhaps AC)? What if Tylee had been witnessing Lori's selfish, insane, sociopathic, controlling, criminal behavior her whole life, hated her guts, and finally wanted out? After all, it's been posted that the only reason Tylee went to ID was to protect JJ.

What if Lori was the one with the bat, and CV took it away from Lori, not Tylee? What if Tylee and JJ were in fear for their lives if they didn't back up Lori's and AC's stories and lie to the AZ PD?

I have always wondered whether Lori perhaps took away Tylee's cell phone and JJ's laptop/phone (the device containing the apps that kept him calm) back in July or August, not long after CV's death due to the "justifiable homicide".

If Lori had control of the children's devices since that time, it might explain the similar nature of the Venmo transactions sent using Tylee's device/account in Aug, Sept, and Oct, and the one Lori sent using her own phone back in June. Most importantly, taking the children's devices would prevent Tylee and/or JJ from sending out an SOS.

This theory might also be supported by the fact that when KVW and her husband were in the 35 second FaceTime communication with JJ in August, they said it felt as if JJ was somehow being controlled or monitored. This same theory might be even further supported by the odd response to the text communication attempt made by Tylee's friend (initially no response, followed weeks later by a response the friend thought was inauthentic).

Wouldn't it be great if it turned out the kids have been on the run - and that they are now being kept safe from Lori (and back then, safe from AC as well)? Perhaps they are now being hidden and protected by a friend, or a Ryan relative, or somebody else Tylee knew and trusted. Somebody who knew then (and knows now) that the kids were then (and are now) in jeopardy?

This would be my dream scenario.

I keep wondering how poor Tylee and JJ felt on the day Charles was violently killed when Lori announced, "Hey, let's have a pool party!" To me, acting like that is child abuse.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I'm "assuming" LE has obtained GPS for any vehicle associated with Lori/Chad/Alex/whoever else. Between them I'm hoping they got some decent history. Jmo.

 

[Gardener1850]

So... uh timeline? @Gardener1850 , how exactly do you plan to put in the alleged dancing video emails? That's going to be an interesting add IMO

IDK, lol. I went to bed early last night after watching the presser and I need to review it again before it goes into the timeline. Did Kay give a date of when that happened? Was it in Jan 2019? Or just sometime around the time when Charles suspected Lori of cheating? If no date was given then I will just put it as something Kay said at the 30 Jan 2020 presser. If there's a date it might end up in two places in the timeline (when it happened and when it was revealed to us at the presser). Hopefully there will be some MSM source quoting her on that part so I can pull an exact quote.

The good news about that little tidbit is she said Lori is not technologically savvy. She didn't know how to delete the emails she sent. I know Chad had a website and spoke on a podcast but I see him as not being super tech savvy either (when it comes to things like deleting searches). This means they probably left tons of evidence behind for LE to find. Those dancing videos may someday be released as evidence in a case. They likely still exist on a server somewhere, even if Lori destroyed the computer she sent them on. I wonder if that is why she took Charles' business computer out of the Chandler house. She might have thought destroying the computer would destroy any incriminating emails and searches. MOO.

 

[caseface]

I really don't get it either.

I mean i could get it more if the kids were definitely with other carers and Lori was simply keeping mum on it for ideological/religious reasons.

But not to offer any explanation? How is that not probable cause of itself?

They have a right to remain silent. This is a good protection that is helpful and fair for all. I wouldn't want to change this law. Based on the facts of the law that we know of now, government has asked her to show her kids and she has remained silent. No laws have been broken and there is no evidence that she has harmed her kids. If there is no evidence of harm, no law has been broken and there is no legal avenue to take custody of the children. If they could, this would be a great danger to the public. It would mean the government can ask you to show your kids and if you cannot, they can produce an order to take custody of them. It would provide exactly such a precedent. Evidence is needed. Perhaps they will find some but, based on what is available at the moment, even family court barely has a right to get involved. The most inflammatory information is not evidence; it is hearsay from a spouse who wants a divorce so it is not reliable. Spouses say negative things, much worse things, about one another all the time in divorce filings. So, that should never be a precedent for the state to take your kids away; nor should it provide a basis for the government to force someone to produce their kids for observation. There are parents who do not want their kids questioned due to the trauma they perceive it may cause. Personally, i do not want anyone coming in to my house questioning my child based upon what someone else said especially if it is someone who has a motive to harm me in some way. So, those protections exist for people who are not harming their children or breaking the law.

In this case, i definitely understand your frustration. And at this point, i would have provided some sort of proof my kids were alive and well. And i believe she has that option. She could provide that evidence without ever allowing the kids to be questioned. So, from a human standpoint, i completely agree with you and feel the same way. And although frustrating when someone is taking advantage of them, the laws that we do have are good ones compared with the rest of the world that usually act to protect the innocent more than they do the guilty.

Hoping for the best in this case.

 

[lurker042]

Just a few thoughts
Well, during the divorce proceedings when LV started addressing CV as Nick Schneider. She stated that CV had "died" and his spirit was replaced by the one called Nick. She also stated that she thought that her children were "level 3 dark spirits" and " that they were better off dead".
Idaho cult mom Lori Vallow and her husband have until Thursday to produce her two missing children | Daily Mail Online
LV also stated that Tylee had "died" at least a year ago. In reference to that statement by LV, I think that she thought the same thing had happened to TR that had happened to CV. TRs spirit had been replaced by a level 3 dark spirit...a spirit sent by the adversary to prevent her from doing the work that she perceived that God had called her to do. I think this is also the scenerio for JJ as well. AS LV saw it, her children were trying to prevent her from doing her work. They had to be dealt with as she had a mission to complete.
I have no hope that the children are alive.
Also there is no way that LV will be charged with any type of crime. The one person that could implicate her in any of this is her brother....and he is dead. She simply has to say...Alex did it all.
Unless....CD cracks under pressure. But LV has ways to prevent him from giving up any information. For one, he is wrapped tightly around her finger. Also, he could just "die" under mysterious circumstances.

 

[RexburgSleuth]

She simply has to say...Alex did it all.

MOO:
I disagree. Why did Alex do anything he had done? Why would Alex attack JR to the point of serving jail time? For Lori. Why would Alex be there with a gun to shoot CV? For Lori. What motive would Alex have had to kill Tammy, if in fact, he was part of that? For Lori. If the children were in the way and Alex had any part of killing them? In whose way were they? Lori's. He's an accessory. She's the instigator. She can't prove he was motivated by any other means. So, her saying Alex did it all does not exonerate herself.

 

[tresir2012]

They have a right to remain silent. This is a good protection that is helpful and fair for all. I wouldn't want to change this law. Based on the facts of the law that we know of now, government has asked her to show her kids and she has remained silent. No laws have been broken and there is no evidence that she has harmed her kids. If there is no evidence of harm, no law has been broken and there is no legal avenue to take custody of the children. If they could, this would be a great danger to the public. It would mean the government can ask you to show your kids and if you cannot, they can produce an order to take custody of them. It would provide exactly such a precedent. Evidence is needed. Perhaps they will find some but, based on what is available at the moment, even family court barely has a right to get involved. The most inflammatory information is not evidence; it is hearsay from a spouse who wants a divorce so it is not reliable. Spouses say negative things, much worse things, about one another all the time in divorce filings. So, that should never be a precedent for the state to take your kids away; nor should it provide a basis for the government to force someone to produce their kids for observation. There are parents who do not want their kids questioned due to the trauma they perceive it may cause. Personally, i do not want anyone coming in to my house questioning my child based upon what someone else said especially if it is someone who has a motive to harm me in some way. So, those protections exist for people who are not harming their children or breaking the law.

In this case, i definitely understand your frustration. And at this point, i would have provided some sort of proof my kids were alive and well. And i believe she has that option. She could provide that evidence without ever allowing the kids to be questioned. So, from a human standpoint, i completely agree with you and feel the same way. And although frustrating when someone is taking advantage of them, the laws that we do have are good ones compared with the rest of the world that usually act to protect the innocent more than they do the guilty.

Hoping for the best in this case.

I think she has twice now failed to produce the kids and has thus broken the law and will get a withholding or obstructing charge of some sort. Hopefully something more if LE have more evidence. MOO.

 

[tresir2012]

Just a few thoughts
Well, during the divorce proceedings when LV started addressing CV as Nick Schneider. She stated that CV had "died" and his spirit was replaced by the one called Nick. She also stated that she thought that her children were "level 3 dark spirits" and " that they were better off dead".
Idaho cult mom Lori Vallow and her husband have until Thursday to produce her two missing children | Daily Mail Online
LV also stated that Tylee had "died" at least a year ago. In reference to that statement by LV, I think that she thought the same thing had happened to TR that had happened to CV. TRs spirit had been replaced by a level 3 dark spirit...a spirit sent by the adversary to prevent her from doing the work that she perceived that God had called her to do. I think this is also the scenerio for JJ as well. AS LV saw it, her children were trying to prevent her from doing her work. They had to be dealt with as she had a mission to complete.
I have no hope that the children are alive.
Also there is no way that LV will be charged with any type of crime. The one person that could implicate her in any of this is her brother....and he is dead. She simply has to say...Alex did it all.
Unless....CD cracks under pressure. But LV has ways to prevent him from giving up any information. For one, he is wrapped tightly around her finger. Also, he could just "die" under mysterious circumstances.

I agree with all of this except I don't think we ever managed to find a link in the divorce documents for the "level 3 dark spirits" and " that they were better off dead" quotes. Do you remember where that quote came from?

 

[utahobserver]

IDK, lol. I went to bed early last night after watching the presser and I need to review it again before it goes into the timeline. Did Kay give a date of when that happened? Was it in Jan 2019? Or just sometime around the time when Charles suspected Lori of cheating? If no date was given then I will just put it as something Kay said at the 30 Jan 2020 presser. If there's a date it might end up in two places in the timeline (when it happened and when it was revealed to us at the presser). Hopefully there will be some MSM source quoting her on that part so I can pull an exact quote.

The good news about that little tidbit is she said Lori is not technologically savvy. She didn't know how to delete the emails she sent. I know Chad had a website and spoke on a podcast but I see him as not being super tech savvy either (when it comes to things like deleting searches). This means they probably left tons of evidence behind for LE to find. Those dancing videos may someday be released as evidence in a case. They likely still exist on a server somewhere, even if Lori destroyed the computer she sent them on. I wonder if that is why she took Charles' business computer out of the Chandler house. She might have thought destroying the computer would destroy any incriminating emails and searches. MOO.

Good morning!
It was January. Which ties in to Lori disappearing to Hawaii at that time.
Tammy was the tech savvy one in her marriage. Let’s hope Lori and Chad have left digital breadcrumbs everywhere they went. Same with Alex.

 

[lurker042]

Divorce papers show mom of 2 missing kids said she was a god, threatened to kill husband
LV threatens CVs life
Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix

The reference of the Level 3 dark sprits was a quote from KAY

 

[Ohmeohmy]

So... uh timeline? @Gardener1850 , how exactly do you plan to put in the alleged dancing video emails? That's going to be an interesting add IMO

Oh my gosh.. Maybe a rating system like R or M17 . It will need to be for all of 2019. Now do we wonder/know what was going on when Tammy is sent to see her parents during Spud Harvest and LDS Conference weekend? MOO

 

[lurker042]

MOO:
I disagree. Why did Alex do anything he had done? Why would Alex attack JR to the point of serving jail time? For Lori. Why would Alex be there with a gun to shoot CV? For Lori. What motive would Alex have had to kill Tammy, if in fact, he was part of that? For Lori. If the children were in the way and Alex had any part of killing them? In whose way were they? Lori's. He's an accessory. She's the instigator. She can't prove he was motivated by any other means. So, her saying Alex did it all does not exonerate herself.

I am simply saying that Alex will be a convenient scapegoat. He will not be here to defend anything she says. There is no proof of anything and that is the key. Unless someone talks.....which no one is doing

 

[carbuff]

I've been gone for a bit.. life got busy. I wanted to throw on some comments but this thread moved way too fast!

In regards to phones...why worry about cracking it when you can more easily get the user to grant you access? I don't see either of these two being tech savvy and socially engineering works. Get them to click on the right link or download the right email and you can gain access to their device easily. I understand the FBI is assisting Rexburg and they would have considered this. As a security professional, it is what I would do.

I highly expect that there's a whole lot of sealed court documents in regards to this case and also misdirection by law enforcement to protect their strategy.

My opinion only here...I think there's a money laundering operation going on, in addition to the missing children. The resources being put on this from Rexburg, the FBI and Kauai tell me it is more than just the welfare check. The monitoring of the couple in Hawaii, travel and accommodations for Idaho law enforcement, costs for Kauai...that will add up for Rexburg's budget and has to be defensible.

I totally agree about a whole lot of hidden information. I also agree about the money aspect--my speculation has been more along the line of securities/mail fraud and possibly also firearms violations relative to stockpiling, and related tax evasion charges. This is a major investigation across at least five different LE organizations even before the Hawaii authorities got involved.

 

[carbuff]

Huh. I was away all day yesterday and expected to come back to at least a few threads to read even if nothing happened. Instead it's just a few pages.

Did I see that we aren't supposed to stick out our tongues at people?

 

[carbuff]

I wonder if they might have plans to charge Lori as an accessory or something in Charles' death, but only if they can produce Tylee as a witness? Lori apparently gave conflicting stories on what happened. And we don't know what Tylee's version of events was at all. I also wonder what happens in a case if police have one person admitting they shot someone in self defense but police suspect the person confessing is lying and covering for someone else? They may have suspected something like that was going on but couldn't prove it. Maybe they were hoping to interview JJ and re-interview Tylee without Lori present? If that's the case, then I can see why they would say the case is still open while the kids are missing. MOO.

Actually that would make quite a lot of sense.

 

[nopynono]

Some 17 year olds could/would. My daughter could, but she’s been very much raised to be responsible and self-sufficient, and could handle a child, even with special needs, so long as she was relatively familiar with the child and how to best work with the child.

Except, I don’t get that vibe from what’s been said about Tylee. Run & seek help, maybe. Stay on the run? No.

And Kay immediately said the same thing. She did her best to phrase it kindly, but no, she doesn’t believe Tylee is able or willing to be on the run with JJ on her own.

Exactly, She's 17, not MI6. Even if she were willing to try, highly doubtful for her to avoid being seen by anyone for this long. She still needs to be living somewhere, buying food, checking the mail, etc. If she's on her own and doesn't have a network of people assisting her, I dont think she would be able to vanish without a trace.

 

[Tutter]

Has there been missing persons report filed? (I came in on thread 5 or so)

Good question! I am not sure. We have all been told they are missing, but have flyers been put up?
It’s almost like they didn’t exist, except for us, and the grandparents.

I hope Lori doesn’t get away with misplacing her kids and they are never seen again. And that is likely not the worst thing she has done.

Tylee and JJ are human beings and have worth. A parent is responsible for their welfare. No kids seen since September requires answers and accountability. Somehow Lori has broken no laws and there is nothing anyone can do?

well, it is time for some karma, please.

 

[Queasy Gumshoe]

I hate to say this because so many things could be happening that we don’t know about - have the SSI checks been cashed? Is there record of medication refills? Combing through thousands and thousands of electronic data etc.
But think LE might be looking for bodies. I don’t they will move on her until she shows a threat of fleeing the island. They will keep an eye on her until they have everything they need. She thinks she is in the clear but really they have her butt trapped. I also think the ‘appear In the of the judge’ was a vital legal move. They knew she wouldn’t comply. MOO

 

[CSIDreamer]

Has there been missing persons report filed? (I came in on thread 5 or so)

Tylee:

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

JJ:

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

NamUs cases created Jan 18, 2020.